E0 or Top tier? Which would be better?
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Top Tier, name brand, and the busier the better.
Top Tier. I’ve been running (at least) E7 since 1997 and never, ever, had a fuel issue with any engine I’ve owned. Cars, motorcycles, boats, lawn mowers, snow blowers, edgers, etc. Ethanol is a massivley overblown “problem” if you ask me.
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E0: more BTUs, more better
If we are talking prices equal, E0 everytme.
I can add (and do) Gumout Regane periodically for cleaning. But I can’t undo the damage the alcohol does to the system.
E0 is so rare and expensive around here, I don’t use it regularly. When travelling, I have an app on my phone - “Real Gas,” that I use to find it affordably.
I can add (and do) Gumout Regane periodically for cleaning. But I can’t undo the damage the alcohol does to the system.
E0 is so rare and expensive around here, I don’t use it regularly. When travelling, I have an app on my phone - “Real Gas,” that I use to find it affordably.
What's the price? Normally E0 isn't worth the premium over E10. But of course if it's the same price, then E0 is always better just because of more btu's per gallon. Top tier over regular gas at the same price. But I wouldn't go out of my way for it. Whatever is cheapest and close by, I'm not brand loyal. All the gas comes from the same tanker around here, I'm not running a DI engine so pretty much the minimum mandated amount of detergents by the EPA is good enough for me.
E10 87 is 2.57 , E10 93 is 3.07 and E 0 87 is 2.77 . I get 10 percent more fuel from puregas than 87e10. I dont even pay ten percent more to get more fuel. I buy fuel at either Caseys or QT. Not worried about if its top tier or not. Got a bottle of Redline Si-1 at all times and a dash occasionally of PEA beats any top tier detergent anytime.
Top tier is a detergent additive certification, top tier fuels can be with or without ethanol.
E0 fuel can be with or without detergent additive,
Personally I would look to buy fuel that meets top tier specs and contains 0% E.
Or just buy whatever, add water then drain, add Redline Si1 and have some of the best fuel anywhere.
E0 fuel can be with or without detergent additive,
Personally I would look to buy fuel that meets top tier specs and contains 0% E.
Or just buy whatever, add water then drain, add Redline Si1 and have some of the best fuel anywhere.
wemay
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Top Tier
I dont think a difference could be proven between the two. Ethanol thing is way overblown. Never had issues running e10, not to say I think fuel should contain it.
Originally Posted By: Rolla07
I dont think a difference could be proven between the two. Ethanol thing is way overblown. Never had issues running e10, not to say I think fuel should contain it.
Agree. One of my cars is 18 years old. Never had any issues whatsoever, let alone ethanol related. Canadian gasoline contains a minimum of about 6 or 7 percent ethanol. I’m not wasting time looking for E0.
JMO.
I dont think a difference could be proven between the two. Ethanol thing is way overblown. Never had issues running e10, not to say I think fuel should contain it.
Agree. One of my cars is 18 years old. Never had any issues whatsoever, let alone ethanol related. Canadian gasoline contains a minimum of about 6 or 7 percent ethanol. I’m not wasting time looking for E0.
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I wonder what the fuel mileage difference really is between say 87 octane with 10% ethanol and gasoline without it. Your computer would allow some more timing advance with the alcohol due to its anti-knock properties and this increases fuel mileage a little iirc. But the ethanol has less btu's per pound than gasoline so less energy available per gallon. What is the actual real world difference in MPG's for these two specific fuels? Speaking of add packs. A few years ago I saw a gasoline tanker filling the tanks at a Chevron station. He was pouring a series of one gallon jugs of Techron into one of the tanks. I wandered over and asked him about it. He said he filled all the gas stations in town from the same bulk tanks at the refinery with the exception of the Shell stations. The Techron went into the premium tank only and was provided by the refinery in 1 gallon jugs for a certain ratio which he calculated when he filled the tank. So regular Chevron gas would have no Techron, the mid grade gas would have half the Techron over the premium. The town I live in now has neither Chevron or Shell stations. I can get non-ethanol fuel in 93 octane at Conoco but it has about a 70 cent cost premium over the regular no name 10% ethanol gas. Hard to justify its use when any improvements in mileage or performance are hard to quantify by a casual user such as myself.
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I use 91 and between E10 and E0 (which is fairly common for 91) my car seems to like E10 better.
With E0 I feel like I need to give the car a lot of gas to make it go.
Fuel economy is about the same. I think the variations in driving conditions make a bigger difference.
With E0 I feel like I need to give the car a lot of gas to make it go.
Fuel economy is about the same. I think the variations in driving conditions make a bigger difference.
If price were no object, I would choose E0 all day. My problem is, around here 87 E0 is 40 - 45 cents above 87 E10. I have had multiple vehicles have problems on E10, and all went away completely after changing to E0.
Many, if not most, OPE mechanics say many of the problem engines they see are related to ethanol fuels.
So my OPE engines get stabilized E0, the cars get top tier fuel. My Maxima recommends 91 fuel, and several stations around here prominently advertise NON-Ethanol premium.
Interestingly, my Maxima OM specifically states that using anything above E10 voids the warranty.
Many, if not most, OPE mechanics say many of the problem engines they see are related to ethanol fuels.
So my OPE engines get stabilized E0, the cars get top tier fuel. My Maxima recommends 91 fuel, and several stations around here prominently advertise NON-Ethanol premium.
Interestingly, my Maxima OM specifically states that using anything above E10 voids the warranty.
Never had an issue that could be traced back to Ethanol. However, I did have a problem that I traced back to using non-Top Tier fuel. A few years after running my new '05 Sport Trac on Racetrac gas, the fuel gauge started getting lazy. You could fill the tank all the way up to the top of the neck, and the gauge would read 1/2, slowly creeping up the scale to full sometime later in the day. This went on for about a month.
I ran it as empty as I dared, dumped in two bottles of Techron, and filled the tank all the way up with Chevron 87, and the problem cleared up, never to return.
Everyone I spoke to about it said the silver contacts on the fuel sender can corrode with sulfur. No more Racetrac for my cars.
Normally, I fill the mower with TruFuel, run it for a few minutes and park it for the winter. Last fall, I forgot to do this, and it sat all winter with about 1/3 tank of Quick Trip 87 in it. It started on the 2nd pull this spring and has ran flawlessly all summer.
I ran it as empty as I dared, dumped in two bottles of Techron, and filled the tank all the way up with Chevron 87, and the problem cleared up, never to return.
Everyone I spoke to about it said the silver contacts on the fuel sender can corrode with sulfur. No more Racetrac for my cars.
Normally, I fill the mower with TruFuel, run it for a few minutes and park it for the winter. Last fall, I forgot to do this, and it sat all winter with about 1/3 tank of Quick Trip 87 in it. It started on the 2nd pull this spring and has ran flawlessly all summer.
Originally Posted By: WylieCoyote
Never had an issue that could be traced back to Ethanol. However, I did have a problem that I traced back to using non-Top Tier fuel. A few years after running my new '05 Sport Trac on Racetrac gas, the fuel gauge started getting lazy.
... {snip} ...
Top Tier is very good fuel, regardless of octane or alcohol content. But the additive is effective at *very low* concentrations. Google reveals some tests done by VW on the additives typically found in Top Tier fuels. Concentrations below what is found in the fuel was still effective.
So, you could probably fill up on third-party or independent low-additive or no-additive fuels, provided you follow that up with some Top Tier every x number of fills. Maybe every fifth or so (just a guess).
E0 is not available here (or if it is, you don't know it, as all public road vehicle fuel is allowed "up to" 10% Ethanol, and they don't have to tell you if it does or does not contain alcohol up to that amount).
Oil from the Husky Energy refinery has the most alcohol content, right at 10%, but it also has higher octane at the same or slightly lower price (regular is 89, premium is 94, versus 87 and 93 at Top Tier stations).
Alcohol is funny in some ways ... it mixes perfectly with both water and petroleum, so it can clean out water in your fuel tank, but at the same time it contains at least 5% water (if it is refined to more than 95% purity, as soon as it is exposed to the atmosphere it absorbs the 5% from the air). It's also corrosive to some materials, although road vehicles aren't made from alcohol-susceptible materials anymore and haven't been for quite a while. So it makes a good winter fuel (no gas line antifreeze will be needed) but not so good in summer.
I've never noticed much difference in fuel consumption but it does have slightly less energy than gasoline so over a 1000 miles or so there must be a noticeable penalty. Probably not noticeable over lesser mileage though. I'd say it's similar to small differences in tire diameter as far as fuel cost goes.
Never had an issue that could be traced back to Ethanol. However, I did have a problem that I traced back to using non-Top Tier fuel. A few years after running my new '05 Sport Trac on Racetrac gas, the fuel gauge started getting lazy.
... {snip} ...
Top Tier is very good fuel, regardless of octane or alcohol content. But the additive is effective at *very low* concentrations. Google reveals some tests done by VW on the additives typically found in Top Tier fuels. Concentrations below what is found in the fuel was still effective.
So, you could probably fill up on third-party or independent low-additive or no-additive fuels, provided you follow that up with some Top Tier every x number of fills. Maybe every fifth or so (just a guess).
E0 is not available here (or if it is, you don't know it, as all public road vehicle fuel is allowed "up to" 10% Ethanol, and they don't have to tell you if it does or does not contain alcohol up to that amount).
Oil from the Husky Energy refinery has the most alcohol content, right at 10%, but it also has higher octane at the same or slightly lower price (regular is 89, premium is 94, versus 87 and 93 at Top Tier stations).
Alcohol is funny in some ways ... it mixes perfectly with both water and petroleum, so it can clean out water in your fuel tank, but at the same time it contains at least 5% water (if it is refined to more than 95% purity, as soon as it is exposed to the atmosphere it absorbs the 5% from the air). It's also corrosive to some materials, although road vehicles aren't made from alcohol-susceptible materials anymore and haven't been for quite a while. So it makes a good winter fuel (no gas line antifreeze will be needed) but not so good in summer.
I've never noticed much difference in fuel consumption but it does have slightly less energy than gasoline so over a 1000 miles or so there must be a noticeable penalty. Probably not noticeable over lesser mileage though. I'd say it's similar to small differences in tire diameter as far as fuel cost goes.
Originally Posted By: Johnny2Bad
Originally Posted By: WylieCoyote
Never had an issue that could be traced back to Ethanol. However, I did have a problem that I traced back to using non-Top Tier fuel. A few years after running my new '05 Sport Trac on Racetrac gas, the fuel gauge started getting lazy.
... {snip} ...
Top Tier is very good fuel, regardless of octane or alcohol content. But the additive is effective at *very low* concentrations. Google reveals some tests done by VW on the additives typically found in Top Tier fuels. Concentrations below what is found in the fuel was still effective.
So, you could probably fill up on third-party or independent low-additive or no-additive fuels, provided you follow that up with some Top Tier every x number of fills. Maybe every fifth or so (just a guess).
E0 is not available here (or if it is, you don't know it, as all public road vehicle fuel is allowed "up to" 10% Ethanol, and they don't have to tell you if it does or does not contain alcohol up to that amount).
Oil from the Husky Energy refinery has the most alcohol content, right at 10%, but it also has higher octane at the same or slightly lower price (regular is 89, premium is 94, versus 87 and 93 at Top Tier stations).
Alcohol is funny in some ways ... it mixes perfectly with both water and petroleum, so it can clean out water in your fuel tank, but at the same time it contains at least 5% water (if it is refined to more than 95% purity, as soon as it is exposed to the atmosphere it absorbs the 5% from the air). It's also corrosive to some materials, although road vehicles aren't made from alcohol-susceptible materials anymore and haven't been for quite a while. So it makes a good winter fuel (no gas line antifreeze will be needed) but not so good in summer.
I've never noticed much difference in fuel consumption but it does have slightly less energy than gasoline so over a 1000 miles or so there must be a noticeable penalty. Probably not noticeable over lesser mileage though. I'd say it's similar to small differences in tire diameter as far as fuel cost goes.
Very good post. Thanks!
Originally Posted By: WylieCoyote
Never had an issue that could be traced back to Ethanol. However, I did have a problem that I traced back to using non-Top Tier fuel. A few years after running my new '05 Sport Trac on Racetrac gas, the fuel gauge started getting lazy.
... {snip} ...
Top Tier is very good fuel, regardless of octane or alcohol content. But the additive is effective at *very low* concentrations. Google reveals some tests done by VW on the additives typically found in Top Tier fuels. Concentrations below what is found in the fuel was still effective.
So, you could probably fill up on third-party or independent low-additive or no-additive fuels, provided you follow that up with some Top Tier every x number of fills. Maybe every fifth or so (just a guess).
E0 is not available here (or if it is, you don't know it, as all public road vehicle fuel is allowed "up to" 10% Ethanol, and they don't have to tell you if it does or does not contain alcohol up to that amount).
Oil from the Husky Energy refinery has the most alcohol content, right at 10%, but it also has higher octane at the same or slightly lower price (regular is 89, premium is 94, versus 87 and 93 at Top Tier stations).
Alcohol is funny in some ways ... it mixes perfectly with both water and petroleum, so it can clean out water in your fuel tank, but at the same time it contains at least 5% water (if it is refined to more than 95% purity, as soon as it is exposed to the atmosphere it absorbs the 5% from the air). It's also corrosive to some materials, although road vehicles aren't made from alcohol-susceptible materials anymore and haven't been for quite a while. So it makes a good winter fuel (no gas line antifreeze will be needed) but not so good in summer.
I've never noticed much difference in fuel consumption but it does have slightly less energy than gasoline so over a 1000 miles or so there must be a noticeable penalty. Probably not noticeable over lesser mileage though. I'd say it's similar to small differences in tire diameter as far as fuel cost goes.
Very good post. Thanks!
JHZR2
Staff member
Originally Posted By: maxdustington
E0: more BTUs, more better
Not for the premium charged.
Top tier from a high throughput station.
But DIY maintenance dosing from a high throughput non top tier station is fine too, IMO.
E0: more BTUs, more better
Not for the premium charged.
Top tier from a high throughput station.
But DIY maintenance dosing from a high throughput non top tier station is fine too, IMO.
As others have said, price is an important factor.
Around me, there is one one station I know of that has e-0, and they charge almost $1 more/gallon. Not worth the 10% improvement in mileage.
If it were only $0.10-0.15 price difference, I would get the e-0, but would not go out of my way for it (which it is at the one station by me).
Top tier is nice, but not an absolute for me. Name brand stations with regular use are what I look for.
I primarily use Valero, Sunoco, Walmart, and Kroger for fuel, and until recently, none were top tier stations (Valero and Sunoco have been added in the past year or so).
I do run a PEA cleaner every oil change though.
I have never noticed any ill affects of e-10 (aside from lower mileage) on any of my vehicles, several lawn mowers and pressure washers.
Around me, there is one one station I know of that has e-0, and they charge almost $1 more/gallon. Not worth the 10% improvement in mileage.
If it were only $0.10-0.15 price difference, I would get the e-0, but would not go out of my way for it (which it is at the one station by me).
Top tier is nice, but not an absolute for me. Name brand stations with regular use are what I look for.
I primarily use Valero, Sunoco, Walmart, and Kroger for fuel, and until recently, none were top tier stations (Valero and Sunoco have been added in the past year or so).
I do run a PEA cleaner every oil change though.
I have never noticed any ill affects of e-10 (aside from lower mileage) on any of my vehicles, several lawn mowers and pressure washers.
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