All things equal...Mobil 1 versus pennzoil

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Originally Posted By: 2015_PSD
Originally Posted By: irv
Most on here know my personal thoughts with regards to Mobil oils so I won't get into all the reasons for that other than to say I think Mobil oils are overrated and overpriced. Will your engine grenade using Mobil oils, I highly doubt it, but I honestly believe many oils exist out there, including Pennzoil, my oil of choice, that are not only cheaper to purchase, but are also a better product.
Overpriced as compared to what? M1 is and has been the cheapest at WM versus Pennzoil or Castrol. Better is subjective and you would not be able to prove that as a consumer unless you have several hundred thousand in disposable cash. Bottom line is that none of them--Castrol, Mobil, or Pennzoil are bad choices and to discern the differences between them for engine longevity is a near impossible task.


This. There is far more variability in engine lifespan due to the stack of manufacturing tolerances than there is between identically approved oils in the same grade from different manufacturers.
 
Originally Posted By: OVERKILL
Originally Posted By: vincent714028
Both are great oils. You cannot go wrong with either.

The mobil1 will give you better fuel economy. The pennzoil will give you better wear protection. I am splitting hairs though. The difference is small. That is also over the life of the engine after several hundred thousand miles. Studies have shown that wear differences cannot be measured through UOA in the short term of a few thousand miles. By the time it DOES matter the vehicle will have other issues outside of the engine if you change your oil regularly.

Even so, I want the wear protection. So I choose Pennzoil.


I'm keen to know the source of the study, complete with tear-down data and measurements that supports these claims. Or is this entirely based on the Seq IVA advert that Shell was circulating that only applies to 5w-30?


I incorrectly worded that sentence. Wear differences are insignificant. This is from a study by blackstone labs posted on this forum somewhere from a recent newsletter about "best" oil choices. The link is in this forum somewhere. I found it a day or two ago. I will post the link if I find it again.

Also, about that seq IVA advert from Shell. Yes, my sentence comes from that test. I am searching for more info about that claim from shell. They are more forthcoming about test results that other oil companies. I like that about them. If those statements like "unsurpassed" are false, then other oil companies would sue. They do not though.

If you have more info about this shell test claim, I will love to see it. Or any other test performance data regarding that test from other oil companies. I cannot find results anywhere on the internet so far.

The sentence about mobil1 and fuel economy is anecdotal from my own experience in the same engine using mobil1 and pennzoil.
 
Originally Posted By: vincent714028
Originally Posted By: OVERKILL
Originally Posted By: vincent714028
Both are great oils. You cannot go wrong with either.

The mobil1 will give you better fuel economy. The pennzoil will give you better wear protection. I am splitting hairs though. The difference is small. That is also over the life of the engine after several hundred thousand miles. Studies have shown that wear differences cannot be measured through UOA in the short term of a few thousand miles. By the time it DOES matter the vehicle will have other issues outside of the engine if you change your oil regularly.

Even so, I want the wear protection. So I choose Pennzoil.


I'm keen to know the source of the study, complete with tear-down data and measurements that supports these claims. Or is this entirely based on the Seq IVA advert that Shell was circulating that only applies to 5w-30?


I incorrectly worded that sentence. Wear differences are insignificant. This is from a study by blackstone labs posted on this forum somewhere from a recent newsletter about "best" oil choices. The link is in this forum somewhere. I found it a day or two ago. I will post the link if I find it again.

Also, about that seq IVA advert from Shell. Yes, my sentence comes from that test. I am searching for more info about that claim from shell. They are more forthcoming about test results that other oil companies. I like that about them. If those statements like "unsurpassed" are false, then other oil companies would sue. They do not though.

If you have more info about this shell test claim, I will love to see it. Or any other test performance data regarding that test from other oil companies. I cannot find results anywhere on the internet so far.

The sentence about mobil1 and fuel economy is anecdotal from my own experience in the same engine using mobil1 and pennzoil.


I'm just busting your balls because the Seq IVA is designed to specifically measure wear under conditions that mimic warm-up. It is a standardized test with established limits and the claims made in respect to superior performance are all against competitors who are also well under the bar for that limit. Also note that these claims are also exclusively made for 5w-30
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It's marketing and doesn't represent wear performance under any conditions other than those in Seq IVA. What's implied by the bold headline is somewhat undermined by the subscript that points that fact out, however most people are not going to read the subscript. It makes for great advertising, but it leaves a lot on the table in terms of real-world applicability unless your engine is constantly in a state of warm-up.
 
Originally Posted By: 2015_PSD
Originally Posted By: irv
Most on here know my personal thoughts with regards to Mobil oils so I won't get into all the reasons for that other than to say I think Mobil oils are overrated and overpriced. Will your engine grenade using Mobil oils, I highly doubt it, but I honestly believe many oils exist out there, including Pennzoil, my oil of choice, that are not only cheaper to purchase, but are also a better product.

Overpriced as compared to what? M1 is and has been the cheapest at WM versus Pennzoil or Castrol. Better is subjective and you would not be able to prove that as a consumer unless you have several hundred thousand in disposable cash. Bottom line is that none of them--Castrol, Mobil, or Pennzoil are bad choices and to discern the differences between them for engine longevity is a near impossible task.


Not up here it isn't, and unlike you guys Stateside, our only choices are 4.4 ltr jugs of Mobil compared to 5 ltr jugs of Pennzoil.

Also, depending on what "Flavor" of Mobil you choose, I really don't see it being cheaper for you guys either?
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https://www.walmart.com/browse/auto-tires/motor-oil/91083_1104294_1072084

Take a look at our prices up here and notice how much for Mobil in the 4.4 ltr jugs compare to Pennzoils in the 5 ltr jugs.
http://www.canadiantire.ca/en/automotive...engine-oil.html

Glad I looked. I just noticed Pennzoil is on sale again.
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All things being equal they are equal. Although M1>Pennzoil, I abhor the yellow bottle.
 
Originally Posted By: OVERKILL
unless your engine is constantly in a state of warm-up.


Wouldn't an engine that is short tripped all the time be considered "in a state of warm-up" most of the time since it rarely reaches operating temps?
 
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Originally Posted By: irv
Originally Posted By: 2015_PSD
Originally Posted By: irv
Most on here know my personal thoughts with regards to Mobil oils so I won't get into all the reasons for that other than to say I think Mobil oils are overrated and overpriced. Will your engine grenade using Mobil oils, I highly doubt it, but I honestly believe many oils exist out there, including Pennzoil, my oil of choice, that are not only cheaper to purchase, but are also a better product.
Overpriced as compared to what? M1 is and has been the cheapest at WM versus Pennzoil or Castrol. Better is subjective and you would not be able to prove that as a consumer unless you have several hundred thousand in disposable cash. Bottom line is that none of them--Castrol, Mobil, or Pennzoil are bad choices and to discern the differences between them for engine longevity is a near impossible task.
Not up here it isn't, and unlike you guys Stateside, our only choices are 4.4 ltr jugs of Mobil compared to 5 ltr jugs of Pennzoil. Also, depending on what "Flavor" of Mobil you choose, I really don't see it being cheaper for you guys either?
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https://www.walmart.com/browse/auto-tires/motor-oil/91083_1104294_1072084. Take a look at our prices up here and notice how much for Mobil in the 4.4 ltr jugs compare to Pennzoils in the 5 ltr jugs. http://www.canadiantire.ca/en/automotive...ngine-oil.html. Glad I looked. I just noticed Pennzoil is on sale again.
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We are talking apples and oranges with CA pricing vs. US pricing and that was not my intent and I did not realize that you were in CA. With that said, with the exception of AP, M1/AFE/Euro is the cheapest major synthetic on the shelf at my WM versus either Pennzoil or Castrol. Prices may vary regionally, but M1 has been the cheapest for months here. YMMV!
 
Originally Posted By: HKPolice
Either brand is fine, but you should stick with whatever you choose as changing oil chemistry every interval does more harm than good.
That is 100% B.S.
 
Originally Posted By: Duffyjr
Originally Posted By: OVERKILL
unless your engine is constantly in a state of warm-up.


Wouldn't an engine that is short tripped all the time be considered "in a state of warm-up" most of the time since it rarely reaches operating temps?


There's a specific temperature at which "a perfect storm" is created where additives aren't yet active and viscosity is sufficiently reduced. Even in a short-tripped engine, it isn't constantly in this state, though it would be in this state more than an engine that is brought up to operating temperature every time. Of course ambient would play a role here as well.
 
One you drain the oil out of the oil pan the engine has no memory of which brand of oil you were using during the last oil change interval. Change it up as often as you like, you are not stuck using the same oil you did last time.

Imagine what would happen if oil companies had a way to poison your engine so you had to keep using their brand of oil. That would be extortion.
 
Thinking back on 2010 GMC 5.3L

VSP, QSUD, M1, PUP, M1, D1300, D1, PPE … that engine must be some messed up … but runs like new
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Originally Posted By: irv
Not up here it isn't, and unlike you guys Stateside, our only choices are 4.4 ltr jugs of Mobil compared to 5 ltr jugs of Pennzoil.

Pricing is by luck and geography, even up here. Look at when Partsource or CT has the special on 4.4+1 L packages for M1. That's almost unbeatable. The difference between the best sale price on M1, PP, Castrol black bottle, and VSP probably would amortise out to $2 over a year's oil changes, if that. Also, it seems the 4.4 L jugs are on their way out.

Look at the distributor side of things in Canada. Imperial Oil seems to do a better job at pricing HDEOs when you buy direct, whereas Shell does a bit better with PCMOs.
 
Originally Posted By: CT8
Originally Posted By: HKPolice
Either brand is fine, but you should stick with whatever you choose as changing oil chemistry every interval does more harm than good.
That is 100% B.S.


Believe what you want, I don't care. Fleet UOA tests have shown otherwise.

Logic also backs this up. For example: most oils use Boron/Moly based additives for AW, some use Sodium (Valvoline & Royal Purple). There isn't a single oil that uses all 3 types, prove me wrong.
 
Originally Posted By: Garak
Originally Posted By: irv
Not up here it isn't, and unlike you guys Stateside, our only choices are 4.4 ltr jugs of Mobil compared to 5 ltr jugs of Pennzoil.

Pricing is by luck and geography, even up here. Look at when Partsource or CT has the special on 4.4+1 L packages for M1. That's almost unbeatable. The difference between the best sale price on M1, PP, Castrol black bottle, and VSP probably would amortise out to $2 over a year's oil changes, if that. Also, it seems the 4.4 L jugs are on their way out.

Look at the distributor side of things in Canada. Imperial Oil seems to do a better job at pricing HDEOs when you buy direct, whereas Shell does a bit better with PCMOs.


You mean this $65.99 deal for one average 4.4 ltr jug plus another 1 ltr bottle where they throw in a T shirt?
http://www.canadiantire.ca/en/pdp/mobil-1-synthetic-motor-oil-4-4l-1l-bonus-0999420p.html#srp

No thanks, I'll stick with a 5 ltr jug of Pennzoil for $35 dollars.
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http://www.canadiantire.ca/en/pdp/pennzoil-platinum-syntheticengine-oil-5-l-0289323p.html#srp

Can't wait to see the prices Mobil when the 5 ltr jugs are introduced up here.
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Originally Posted By: HKPolice
Originally Posted By: CT8
Originally Posted By: HKPolice
Either brand is fine, but you should stick with whatever you choose as changing oil chemistry every interval does more harm than good.
That is 100% B.S.
Believe what you want, I don't care. Fleet UOA tests have shown otherwise.

Logic also backs this up. For example: most oils use Boron/Moly based additives for AW, some use Sodium (Valvoline & Royal Purple). There isn't a single oil that uses all 3 types, prove me wrong.
Fleet UOA tests show what? They certainly will not show wear differences because UOAs cannot do that. What does having all three additives or not having them support? It is simply how additive packs are chosen and formulated by the oil manufacturer. Show me objective and scientific evidence that proves changing oil brands causes more wear.
 
Originally Posted By: 2015_PSD
Originally Posted By: HKPolice
Originally Posted By: CT8
Originally Posted By: HKPolice
Either brand is fine, but you should stick with whatever you choose as changing oil chemistry every interval does more harm than good.
That is 100% B.S.
Believe what you want, I don't care. Fleet UOA tests have shown otherwise.

Logic also backs this up. For example: most oils use Boron/Moly based additives for AW, some use Sodium (Valvoline & Royal Purple). There isn't a single oil that uses all 3 types, prove me wrong.

Fleet UOA tests show what? They certainly will not show wear differences because UOAs cannot do that. What does having all three additives or not having them support? It is simply how additive packs are chosen and formulated by the oil manufacturer. Show me objective and scientific evidence that proves changing oil brands causes more wear.


Good luck, 2015PSD, he's got logic backing this up.
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Originally Posted By: irv
Most on here know my personal thoughts with regards to Mobil oils so I won't get into all the reasons for that other than to say I think Mobil oils are overrated and overpriced.

Will your engine grenade using Mobil oils, I highly doubt it, but I honestly believe many oils exist out there, including Pennzoil, my oil of choice, that are not only cheaper to purchase, but are also a better product.







Well you blew that promise right off the bat and continue to do so.
 
Originally Posted By: PimTac
Originally Posted By: irv
Most on here know my personal thoughts with regards to Mobil oils so I won't get into all the reasons for that other than to say I think Mobil oils are overrated and overpriced.

Will your engine grenade using Mobil oils, I highly doubt it, but I honestly believe many oils exist out there, including Pennzoil, my oil of choice, that are not only cheaper to purchase, but are also a better product.







Well you blew that promise right off the bat and continue to do so.


I’ll add to that … Irv and two others on this site sound like nothing more than hacks every time the name Mobil comes up …
Not one ml of objectivity … no real knowledge … Bless OverKill and those who try to reason nicer than I will …
Why not move to Atlanta and work for CNN? They like consistent attacks on a single subject …

Do you feel smarter than so many here with this endless nonsense … ain’t working …
 
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