1996 Honda Accord 2.2l (F22B2) Oil Leaks - Leakdown Test

[kschachn]

Hello,

My old Accord with the F22B2 engine started seeping oil through all the gaskets on the top end including the distributor seal, the spark plug tube seals and the valve cover. When I open the oil cap with the engine running there is quite a bit of air coming out of the hole, more than there used to be a couple of years ago. I ran both a compression and a leakdown test and these are the results:

Cylinder 1, 2, 3, 4
Compression: 190, 189, 190, 210
Leakdown Percentage: 8%, 13%, 11%, 4%

The compression test would probably be considered a wet test since there was more than a little bit of oil that leaked down into the cylinder when I removed the spark plug. The leakage heard during the test was from the valve cover, I didn't hear anything out the intake nor the exhaust. The compression test was done cold and the leakdown test hot.

I don't know exactly what these results indicate, anyone care to comment? I found this online:

http://www.gregsengine.com/cylinder-leakdown-testing.html

 

[Chris142]

Valve guides?

 

[SatinSilver]

The oil leaks are very common with that engine. I remember that from my days on the Accord forum, driveaccord.net. And that was years ago. I'd fix the leaks with new oem seals/gaskets and motor on. Keep that thing rolling is the goal.

 

[kschachn]

Originally Posted By: SatinSilver
The oil leaks are very common with engine. I remember that from my days on the Accord forum, driveaccord.net. And that was years ago. I'd fix the leaks with new oem seals and motor on. Keep that thing rolling is the goal.

Well that's the thing. I did just replace all those seals not too long ago. The engine never leaked all that bad but now it seems to be every seal and gasket over the past 10,000 miles or so. It used to be pretty dry.

I expected to find more leak down than that given the air I feel coming out of the oil fill hole. The PCV valve is working properly.

 

[SatinSilver]

Originally Posted By: kschachn
The PCV valve is working properly.


If it's aftermarket or an oem one with more than 60k miles I'd replace it with an oem one. Even if it still rattles I'd replace.

How much oil does the engine burn/use over the course of an oci?

 

[kschachn]

Originally Posted By: SatinSilver
Originally Posted By: kschachn
The PCV valve is working properly.

If it's aftermarket or an oem one with more than 60k miles I'd replace it with an oem one. Even if it still rattles I'd replace.

How much oil does the engine burn/use over the course of an oci?

I'm not exactly sure but I don't think it's an excessive amount. My daughter drives the car at graduate school on the east coast and she keeps track of that. She said it isn't low very often but I really don't know the exact amount. It's an aftermarket PCV valve, I'll try a Honda one.

I just looked at the bottom end of the engine and the new oil pan gasket i put on is leaking pretty bad. In my mind that crankcase is pressurized regardless of what the leakdown test shows or doesn't show (but I don't really know what the numbers mean).

 

[kschachn]

I did the leak down test again and got these numbers the second time:

Cylinder 1, 2, 3, 4
6%, 12%, 10%, 6%

And I take it back about it being an aftermarket PCV valve, I looked back at my orders from Honda and I did buy an OEM one the last time.

 

[kschachn]

Originally Posted By: Chris142
Valve guides?

Would a leak down test show worn valve guides? The valves are shut during the test.

 

[kschachn]

The only other bit of information I might add is that 28,000 miles ago it had a bad oil leak from the bottom end. It turned out to be the o-rings behind the oil pump. I put on a whole new oil pump (aftermarket) rather than just putting new seals on the old pump. I don't see how that could be the source of the seeping I see everywhere now but I thought I'd mention it.

 

[CT8]

Crank ventilation operating[Clogged}

 

[Trav]

Nothing wrong with the leak down or cold compression test results. You could do a piston soak and retest in 3K and see if it cleaned a bit of rubbish out of the rings.

Edit: The noise you heard at the valve cover was air going past the rings into the crankcase, the oil drain holes from the head to the crankcase/pan are the only connection to the valve cover with closed valves.

 

[kschachn]

Originally Posted By: Trav
Nothing wrong with the leak down or cold compression test results. You could do a piston soak and retest in 3K and see if it cleaned a bit of rubbish out of the rings.

Okay thanks for your input on the values. I'll try the soak.

 

[Trav]

20% leak down is still serviceable, 30% you have a real problem, this engine doesn't. Cold compression test numbers are not really valid but with numbers in the range you have its fine, they would be higher warm.

 

[SatinSilver]

Originally Posted By: kschachn
Okay thanks for your input on the values. I'll try the soak.


I think B12 Chemtool is recommended for soaks. Is that what you'll be using?

 

[SatinSilver]

Any updates?

 

[Phishin]

B12 or order some Kreen.

I'm curious if there's any updates as well.

 

[kschachn]

Sorry for the delay. Long story short I ended up removing the head despite the acceptable leakdown and compression test results. This engine has had a weird knocking sound for a long, long time and after about an hour of listening to it I decided it was coming from the head or the valve train, and I wanted to see what was going on inside. Sounds like overkill and it probably was, but I just wanted to see if I could find out what has been causing that sound. If you look around on the web there are tons of F22B2 engines that make the same sound, at first I thought it was excessive play in the balance shafts but I disconnected that belt and ran it without the shafts turning. It was no different so I ended up here four hours later.

I took the head in to a shop to have it checked out and maybe the valves ground. A rabbit hole I know but yeah...

Sorry for the sideways files it seems to be a Macintosh thing. The #3 cylinder was "different" than the others, so were the valves on that cylinder. The guy at the shop said that was not atypical for Hondas, so it may turn out to be nothing.

 

[Phishin]

Thanks for the update man. Appreciate it. Hard to really say from here, but the valve train and cylinders/piston tops look "normal" for this year and use of car.

 

[Schmoe]

Is it me or the camera? but that piston wall on the third pictures looks pretty rough.

 

[kschachn]

Originally Posted By: Schmoe
Is it me or the camera? but that piston wall on the third pictures looks pretty rough.

It’s reflections off the carbon (that used to be) on the piston top. The wall is good and still has crosshatching visible.