Hi, New to this forum. Need your opinions on a ongoing intermitten "ticking" from my Kohler 23 hp motor. Im sure its a lifter and it comes and goes. Motor has about 1000 hrs on it. Gets better after I change oil but a few hours, here comes that ticking again. I only use "Kohler Command SAE 10w 30. Should I use different oil? never adjusted lifters, could that help, not sure if there is adjustable (hydroulic lifters). Hate to open her up the replace lifters if change of oil type and/or adjusting helps.
Kohler problem
- Thread starter PJ
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Unless something is really wrong with it, if you don't want to open it up, don't.
Through my extensive reading and research on the subject and subsequent learning, I switched our mowers and tractors over to Pennzoil Long-Life 15w-40 with no ill effects...oil will easily protect engine under high heat conditions, high TBN will help keep high acid levels of lawnmower engine service much more in check, and will reduce consumption vs. a straight 30 weight or xw-30 oil (at least the engines I have made the switch on) as well as keep engine much more clean.
Definitely a much better choice than your re-badged Kohler oil.
Switch to Long-Life 15w-40 (avaiable at Wal-Mart) and let us know how it goes...
Bet you'll notice lower "bad" noise as well as reduced consumption.
BTW,
[ January 29, 2004, 12:03 AM: Message edited by: Jelly ]
Through my extensive reading and research on the subject and subsequent learning, I switched our mowers and tractors over to Pennzoil Long-Life 15w-40 with no ill effects...oil will easily protect engine under high heat conditions, high TBN will help keep high acid levels of lawnmower engine service much more in check, and will reduce consumption vs. a straight 30 weight or xw-30 oil (at least the engines I have made the switch on) as well as keep engine much more clean.
Definitely a much better choice than your re-badged Kohler oil.
Switch to Long-Life 15w-40 (avaiable at Wal-Mart) and let us know how it goes...
Bet you'll notice lower "bad" noise as well as reduced consumption.
BTW,
[ January 29, 2004, 12:03 AM: Message edited by: Jelly ]
Thank you for the info Jelly. I think Ill try that and see how it goes. Ill let you know.
ps, Thanks for the welcome
ps, Thanks for the welcome
Your welcome.
If you post your results on here, PM me as well because I might miss your message on the main board.
By the way, when do you plan on making the change?
Jelly, I will change oil in a week or so. I have some wheel bearings on order rite now and snow is on the ground so I wont be able to use mower for a while yet. I will pm you and let you know the results.
Thanks again & take care, PJ
Thanks again & take care, PJ
MolaKule
Staff member
What is the Kohler spec number and general description of this engine?
I use Kohler's and B&S' for woodsplitters. I may have a shop manual for it.
I personally have never had (or heard) this problem. I use Amsoil ATM 10W30 or the Schaeffer's 15W40 Semi-synthetic Blend in my engines.
[ January 29, 2004, 01:27 PM: Message edited by: MolaKule ]
I use Kohler's and B&S' for woodsplitters. I may have a shop manual for it.
I personally have never had (or heard) this problem. I use Amsoil ATM 10W30 or the Schaeffer's 15W40 Semi-synthetic Blend in my engines.
[ January 29, 2004, 01:27 PM: Message edited by: MolaKule ]
Molakule, Spec no ps-75523. verical shaft 23 horse twin cyl.
Sticker on side of engine got srapped off by branch or something so I dont know model no or ID. It is a Scag mower
Thanks for help on this
Sticker on side of engine got srapped off by branch or something so I dont know model no or ID. It is a Scag mower
Thanks for help on this
This is a common problem with the Command engines. In our shop, we find that adding some Sea-Foam to the oil, running for 20 minutes, then changing oil and filter will solve the problem most of the time (lifters get dirty and don't pump up or stay pumped). If that doesn't work, the switch to 15W40 may help. However, straight 30W pumps the lifters up solid and that's even worse. So be watchful.
Otherwise, lifter replacement may be needed. It requires pulling the heads (do 'em all).
Otherwise, lifter replacement may be needed. It requires pulling the heads (do 'em all).
PJ, I bet that ticking is because of the build-up of some crudrestricting a piece of the valvetrain. When you first change the oil and the detergent package is at its best, it dissolves this and the ticking goes away. However, the engine wants to allow build up in that area and as the oil begins to age/weaken, the build-up returns ... as does the noise.
You might add a mild cleaner. SeaFoam was recommended above but I've never tried it. There is some info on this stuff on this site. I'd use an ounce of Schaeffer Neutra in a heartbeat. I bet it'd do the trick.
I am terribly mistrustful of OEM oils. They are high in price but analysis usually shows them to be mediocre or worse.
For the long term, try switching to a different oil. Ideal would be one of the detergent-heavy diesel/fleet oils also recommended for gas engines. These are usually 15W40, but come in 10W30 if you look hard enough (forget the mass-market stores and contact your local oil distributor instead).
I'd recommend Chevron Delo400 or especially Pennzoil Long Life (which has a lot of moly). Again, the 15W40s will be easy to find but both come in 10W30 if you don't mind calling around.
I use Schaeffer 15W40 synthetic blend in nearly all my lawn & garden equipment. Works great. I even did an oil analysis on a sample taken from this engine and posted it on this site. Try searching using the words "Honda Tractor."
--- Bror Jace
You might add a mild cleaner. SeaFoam was recommended above but I've never tried it. There is some info on this stuff on this site. I'd use an ounce of Schaeffer Neutra in a heartbeat. I bet it'd do the trick.
I am terribly mistrustful of OEM oils. They are high in price but analysis usually shows them to be mediocre or worse.
For the long term, try switching to a different oil. Ideal would be one of the detergent-heavy diesel/fleet oils also recommended for gas engines. These are usually 15W40, but come in 10W30 if you look hard enough (forget the mass-market stores and contact your local oil distributor instead).
I'd recommend Chevron Delo400 or especially Pennzoil Long Life (which has a lot of moly). Again, the 15W40s will be easy to find but both come in 10W30 if you don't mind calling around.
I use Schaeffer 15W40 synthetic blend in nearly all my lawn & garden equipment. Works great. I even did an oil analysis on a sample taken from this engine and posted it on this site. Try searching using the words "Honda Tractor."
--- Bror Jace
Jelly, that is not entirely true on reducing consumption. My 20hp Onan uses very little oil with Pennzoil HD30, but does use only if I run 15W40. The hotter it is, the more it uses.
MolaKule
Staff member
PJ,
Found the manual (TP-2450-A). Your's is a CV22 (according to your spec number) of 624 cc capacity and is capable of 22-23 Hp at 3600 RPM. With the clearances listed, you should be able to run oils of SAE weights 10W30 and up to 15W40.
As was stated by others, the hydraulic lifters sound as if they are not pumping up sufficiently to remove tappet clearnances.
Running LC or Auto-Rx in the oil could clean those lifters. Run Delvac 1300 or Chevron Delo with one of the cleaners and this should remove dirt from the lifters. If this does not work, then your lifters are frozen from crud and need replacement. I have also seen broken valve springs on this engine, so I would remove the valve covers and using a bright light, check the springs as well.
If your engine has an oil cooler in the top or side (where the oil filter attaches), make sure the fins are kept clean in order to keep the oil temp in the median ranges.
[ February 04, 2004, 03:15 PM: Message edited by: MolaKule ]
Found the manual (TP-2450-A). Your's is a CV22 (according to your spec number) of 624 cc capacity and is capable of 22-23 Hp at 3600 RPM. With the clearances listed, you should be able to run oils of SAE weights 10W30 and up to 15W40.
As was stated by others, the hydraulic lifters sound as if they are not pumping up sufficiently to remove tappet clearnances.
Running LC or Auto-Rx in the oil could clean those lifters. Run Delvac 1300 or Chevron Delo with one of the cleaners and this should remove dirt from the lifters. If this does not work, then your lifters are frozen from crud and need replacement. I have also seen broken valve springs on this engine, so I would remove the valve covers and using a bright light, check the springs as well.
If your engine has an oil cooler in the top or side (where the oil filter attaches), make sure the fins are kept clean in order to keep the oil temp in the median ranges.
[ February 04, 2004, 03:15 PM: Message edited by: MolaKule ]
Onan generator?
What 15w-40 did you use?
On your next change, try Pennzoil Long-Life...this oil really seems to reduce consumption a great deal, even in comparison to other 15w-40's.
Wheel Horse 20hp Garden tractor with a 60" deck. I did use Long Life.
Wheel Horse 20hp Garden tractor with a 60" deck. I did use Long Life.
Thanks for all your responses guys. I changed oil to Pennzoil Long-Life 15w-40 and so far so good. My dealer told me to try Seafoam in crankcase. He said he has had good luck with this. Has anyone used this stuff and do you think it would clean up my lifters? I bought some, but havent used it yet.
OOps,I just reread 90hardbody's reply suggesting that I try seafoam. Thanks 90hb
MolaKule
Staff member
That should read "672 cc" bore volume.
Also, I just found out that some of the older engines had problems with oil pooling in the heads (due to horizontal plane of bore axis), leading to increased oil consumption.
If this is the case, then remove the valve cover and see if there are reed valves in the head. One reed valve for each head is located between the intake and exhaust valve guides and affixed with a bolt. If not, you may want to install a new head type or acquire a kit to install the reed valve.
If there is a reed valve, make sure it is not stuck open or broken.
[ February 06, 2004, 05:02 PM: Message edited by: MolaKule ]
The tick noise you hear is from air getting into the lifters. This is common on command series engines. There is an upgrade kit from kohler to correct this problem. That engine still has plenty of hours left on it. Dont let the tick bother ya.
Wow Greaszerk, I just had another person tell me exactly the same thing. He gave me a Kohler part#24755135S. If the ticking comes back, I will look into ordering this kit. He said it completely fixed his.
PJ,
Let us know if the cleaner takes care of the problem for awhile, or if you have to use the kit. It's been a couple years since the kit came out, and I forgot about it.
I guess that's why they send us to an update school every year.
Let us know if the cleaner takes care of the problem for awhile, or if you have to use the kit. It's been a couple years since the kit came out, and I forgot about it.
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