Recent Topics
Valvoline eye candy
by Snagglefoot - 12/06/19 07:41 AM
Air crash of the past
by Exhaustgases - 12/06/19 06:34 AM
Menards Splash Windshield Fluid
by Duffyjr - 12/06/19 06:31 AM
m1 TDT vs Rotella t6?
by Stickygreen - 12/05/19 11:09 PM
Not to beat a dead horse but...
by MoPowa - 12/05/19 10:22 PM
Mitsubishi J4 CVT Fluid-Valvoline CVT Fluid
by FloridaTime - 12/05/19 09:55 PM
3 HP on a 15 Amp 120 v circuit
by Snagglefoot - 12/05/19 09:53 PM
SRT part 3 - 2020 Grand Cherokee SRT
by OVERKILL - 12/05/19 09:14 PM
My first new vehicle - first oil change
by Kurtatron - 12/05/19 09:02 PM
My wife made peanut butter fudge today(PIC)
by tig1 - 12/05/19 08:34 PM
07 Saturn Ion 2.0 L clutch replacement
by Nitronoise - 12/05/19 07:23 PM
Do You Prefer A 2 Cycle Or 4 Cycle Engine
by Warstud - 12/05/19 06:45 PM
Help with gift idea - Vacuum Sealer
by 92saturnsl2 - 12/05/19 05:49 PM
More news on the Ford Transmission Issues
by domer10 - 12/05/19 05:48 PM
Drain plug with nut welder to it. PIC
by tig1 - 12/05/19 05:29 PM
5 in 1 Rental Review
by panthermike - 12/05/19 05:25 PM
Engagement Ring Photos
by The Critic - 12/05/19 04:55 PM
Black Friday Oculus Go review
by PandaBear - 12/05/19 04:41 PM
Goodyear Wrangler buy-and a chuckle
by Lapham3 - 12/05/19 04:02 PM
Newest Members
OilStasher, Cranemanl1EMR, Cooline_Radiator, Sveina, msf1344
70047 Registered Users
Who's Online Now
77 registered members (67ZL1, 1960Elco, 1978elcamino, AndyB, 94astro, 53' Stude, 11 invisible), 1,634 guests, and 49 spiders.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Forum Statistics
Forums67
Topics298,359
Posts5,133,710
Members70,047
Most Online3,589
Nov 2nd, 2019
Donate to BITOG
Print Thread
Hop To
Page 3 of 4 1 2 3 4
Re: Harvard being sued for discriminating against Asian students [Re: cashmoney] #4827983 07/31/18 06:49 PM
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 23,500
Mr Nice Offline
Offline
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 23,500
Originally Posted By: cashmoney
School acceptance criteria based on any type of ethnicity, religion, or skin color needs to be 100% outlawed and banned in the US. A student's ability to be accepted into a selective school should be 100% about your achievements, leadership, and grades/test scores and not your racial or ethnic background or income level, or religion (or lack thereof).


Yep.

Re: Harvard being sued for discriminating against Asian students [Re: redbone3] #4827985 07/31/18 06:50 PM
Joined: May 2013
Posts: 2,169
J
Johnny2Bad Offline
Offline
J
Joined: May 2013
Posts: 2,169
I very much doubt Asian students are "smarter overall". Good study skills does not denote intelligence, and your study skills start in elementary school and are largely guided by your parent(s) attention to prioritizing their children's behaviour. High pre-secondary marks do not necessarily mean post-secondary success either; some students excel when the criteria is spelled our for them and fail when confronted with the less structured environment of college.

Nor does College enrolment necessarily indicate intelligence; if unusual nteligence were a requirement for post-secondary study and graduation the schools would have much smaller campuses. Average intelligence is enough to succeed in a college program if you apply yourself. A few bright students will become apparent and will lead their classmates if they too can apply themselves.

Many bright students drop out, some going on to very successful careers sans diploma, leaving their more average classmates to the task of graduation. Some of the dullest people ever to enter a workplace do so armed with a degree, sometimes an advanced one.

Above average intelligence is a mark of roughly one quarter of convicted criminals. I don't see Asians over-represented in that population.

Affirmative Action programs have survived many a court challenge unscathed and unchanged. As long as the litigants can't prove they were not fairly selected from the balance of applicants remaining after AA selection is complete and via the school's usual defendable criteria the suit is doomed to failure.


'57 FL Straight 50 wt
'90 Miata 1.8L w/Rotrex Supercharger [Mobil1 0W-40]
'96 Ram 1500 [3.7L Mobil1 0W-20 / 1L 15W-50]
'01 PT Cruiser [Mobil1 0W-40]
Re: Harvard being sued for discriminating against Asian students [Re: cashmoney] #4827996 07/31/18 07:00 PM
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 2,766
O
Oregoonian Offline
Offline
O
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 2,766
Originally Posted By: cashmoney
School acceptance criteria based on any type of ethnicity, religion, or skin color needs to be 100% outlawed and banned in the US. A student's ability to be accepted into a selective school should be 100% about your achievements, leadership, and grades/test scores and not your racial or ethnic background or income level, or religion (or lack thereof).

Fully agree...........


03' Ford Focus SE(2.3L Duratec PZEV)/ 140K +
Pnz. Ultra 0w20 / Fram 'Ultra'/ OCI: 8000 +/-
ATF: Mercon V w/Lubegard Red

Re: Harvard being sued for discriminating against Asian students [Re: ArrestMeRedZ] #4828002 07/31/18 07:03 PM
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 2,766
O
Oregoonian Offline
Offline
O
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 2,766
Originally Posted By: ArrestMeRedZ
Originally Posted By: newbe46
I am wondering if this will extend to Nobel Prize. If diversification comes before objective measurable achievement, really what is the point of having something like SAT score?


It already has. One recent president received the Nobel Peace Prize before any accomplishments in office other than being the first member of his race to achieve that office.


And he did nothing for "peace'....but his skin color was the main factor.


03' Ford Focus SE(2.3L Duratec PZEV)/ 140K +
Pnz. Ultra 0w20 / Fram 'Ultra'/ OCI: 8000 +/-
ATF: Mercon V w/Lubegard Red

Re: Harvard being sued for discriminating against Asian students [Re: redbone3] #4828003 07/31/18 07:03 PM
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 18,759
A
Al Offline
Offline
A
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 18,759
"Learning" in many cases precludes considering politically incorrect ideas, theories, research. If you flashed the "The Bell Curve"book in a sociology class at Harvard..some would die of heart failure.

Anyone with an open mind would find it hard to dismiss the book as hogwash.


Re: Harvard being sued for discriminating against Asian students [Re: Oregoonian] #4828004 07/31/18 07:04 PM
Joined: May 2013
Posts: 2,169
J
Johnny2Bad Offline
Offline
J
Joined: May 2013
Posts: 2,169
Originally Posted By: Oregoonian
Originally Posted By: cashmoney
School acceptance criteria based on any type of ethnicity, religion, or skin color needs to be 100% outlawed and banned in the US. A student's ability to be accepted into a selective school should be 100% about your achievements, leadership, and grades/test scores and not your racial or ethnic background or income level, or religion (or lack thereof).

Fully agree...........


What is and what should be is not the issue; AA is here to stay for the foreseeable future so that ship has sailed.

You may have some success insisting that performance is not watered down to accomodate poor performing AA applicants, or insisting that additional resources are added to accomodate AA applicants rather than shoehorning them into existing programs and resources at the expense of otherwise qualified candidates.


'57 FL Straight 50 wt
'90 Miata 1.8L w/Rotrex Supercharger [Mobil1 0W-40]
'96 Ram 1500 [3.7L Mobil1 0W-20 / 1L 15W-50]
'01 PT Cruiser [Mobil1 0W-40]
Re: Harvard being sued for discriminating against Asian students [Re: Johnny2Bad] #4828005 07/31/18 07:06 PM
Joined: Jan 2017
Posts: 3,311
M
maxdustington Offline
Offline
M
Joined: Jan 2017
Posts: 3,311
Originally Posted By: Johnny2Bad
I very much doubt Asian students are "smarter overall". Good study skills does not denote intelligence, and your study skills start in elementary school and are largely guided by your parent(s) attention to prioritizing their children's behaviour.

Nor does College enrolment necessarily indicate intelligence; if unusual nteligence were a requirement for post-secondary study and graduation the schools would have much smaller campuses. Average intelligence is enough to succeed in a college program if you apply yourself. A few bright students will become apparent and will lead their classmates if they too can apply themselves.

Many bright students drop out, some going on to very successful careers sans diploma, leaving their more average classmates to the task of graduation.

Above average intelligence is a mark of roughly one quarter of convicted criminals. Don't see Asians over-represented in that population.


From what I understand about Chinese: Higher IQs on average, school top priority, culture where old provides for young then the young reciprocate later on.

Intelligence is partially genetic, attending college is an indicator of intelligence (not the best) but to finish post secondary you have to attend class and do work.

When you say college is not an indicator of intelligence you are diminishing the achievements of people with degrees. Of course your arguments have merit, but they are just generalizations.


99 Toyota Tercel CE 5EFE/C151
Re: Harvard being sued for discriminating against Asian students [Re: maxdustington] #4828012 07/31/18 07:10 PM
Joined: May 2013
Posts: 2,169
J
Johnny2Bad Offline
Offline
J
Joined: May 2013
Posts: 2,169
Originally Posted By: maxdustington
Originally Posted By: Johnny2Bad
I very much doubt Asian students are "smarter overall". Good study skills does not denote intelligence, and your study skills start in elementary school and are largely guided by your parent(s) attention to prioritizing their children's behaviour.

Nor does College enrolment necessarily indicate intelligence; if unusual nteligence were a requirement for post-secondary study and graduation the schools would have much smaller campuses. Average intelligence is enough to succeed in a college program if you apply yourself. A few bright students will become apparent and will lead their classmates if they too can apply themselves.

Many bright students drop out, some going on to very successful careers sans diploma, leaving their more average classmates to the task of graduation.

Above average intelligence is a mark of roughly one quarter of convicted criminals. Don't see Asians over-represented in that population.


From what I understand about Chinese: Higher IQs on average, school top priority, culture where old provides for young then the young reciprocate later on.

Intelligence is partially genetic, attending college is an indicator of intelligence (not the best) but to finish post secondary you have to attend class and do work.

When you say college is not an indicator of intelligence you are diminishing the achievements of people with degrees. Of course your arguments have merit, but they are just generalizations.


That College graduation is not an indication of intelligence is a simple fact; not an opinion. In Canada more than 50% of the adult over-25 population has a post-secondary diploma or degree; I don't think you are suggesting that 54% (2016 Census) represents "above average" intelligence, or that Canadians somehow are some kind of super-race. I certainly don't see much evidence to support it.

Opinions can be challenged by other opinions, facts must be disproved. That does not mean intelligent people cannot graduate college or that intelligent people are not part of the set of graduates versus the general population. I see no diminishing of achievement in any of that. A College degree *IS* an achievement by definition.


'57 FL Straight 50 wt
'90 Miata 1.8L w/Rotrex Supercharger [Mobil1 0W-40]
'96 Ram 1500 [3.7L Mobil1 0W-20 / 1L 15W-50]
'01 PT Cruiser [Mobil1 0W-40]
Re: Harvard being sued for discriminating against Asian students [Re: Oregoonian] #4828029 07/31/18 07:24 PM
Joined: May 2013
Posts: 2,169
J
Johnny2Bad Offline
Offline
J
Joined: May 2013
Posts: 2,169
Originally Posted By: Oregoonian
Originally Posted By: ArrestMeRedZ
Originally Posted By: newbe46
I am wondering if this will extend to Nobel Prize. If diversification comes before objective measurable achievement, really what is the point of having something like SAT score?


It already has. One recent president received the Nobel Peace Prize before any accomplishments in office other than being the first member of his race to achieve that office.


And he did nothing for "peace'....but his skin color was the main factor.


Well, Adolf Hitler was named TIME magazine's "person of the year" (I'm pretty sure it was called "Man of the Year then, but maybe not) in the late 1930's. Anybody can win a subjective criteria award like a Nobel Peace Prize. It's a mistake to read too much into such an award (especially the Peace Prize, which has had many true warmongers as it's winner).

Maybe one day everyone will win one, like "participant awards" in a primary school PhysEd class. All we have to do is wait until a million dollars is worth the value of a bus token. Shouldn't take long.



'57 FL Straight 50 wt
'90 Miata 1.8L w/Rotrex Supercharger [Mobil1 0W-40]
'96 Ram 1500 [3.7L Mobil1 0W-20 / 1L 15W-50]
'01 PT Cruiser [Mobil1 0W-40]
Re: Harvard being sued for discriminating against Asian students [Re: Johnny2Bad] #4828031 07/31/18 07:24 PM
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 11,059
javacontour Offline
Offline
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 11,059
Originally Posted By: Johnny2Bad

That College graduation is not an indication of intelligence is a simple fact; not an opinion. In Canada more than 50% of the adult over-25 population has a post-secondary diploma or degree; I don't think you are suggesting that 54% (2016 Census) represents "above average" intelligence, or that Canadians somehow are some kind of super-race. I certainly don't see much evidence to support it.

Opinions can be challenged by other opinions, facts must be disproved. That does not mean intelligent people cannot graduate college or that intelligent people are not part of the set of graduates versus the general population. I see no diminishing of achievement in any of that. A College degree *IS* an achievement by definition.


Both can be true.

The average college graduate can be more intelligent than the average non-graduate AND you have more than 50% of the population with a degree.

Not everyone gets a hard science or similarly academically rigorous degree. I won't go into some of the more dubious degree programs, but I imagine many can fill in the blanks.

A population as a whole can be more intelligent than another population and still have members who are less intelligent than the lower intelligence population.


network down, IP packets delivered via UPS -BOFH
Re: Harvard being sued for discriminating against Asian students [Re: Johnny2Bad] #4828033 07/31/18 07:26 PM
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 11,059
javacontour Offline
Offline
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 11,059
Man of the Year doesn't mean the winner is good.

I believe MotY is more about being the biggest figure in news, good or bad.

It says nothing to the morality of the "winner."

Originally Posted By: Johnny2Bad
Originally Posted By: Oregoonian
Originally Posted By: ArrestMeRedZ
Originally Posted By: newbe46
I am wondering if this will extend to Nobel Prize. If diversification comes before objective measurable achievement, really what is the point of having something like SAT score?


It already has. One recent president received the Nobel Peace Prize before any accomplishments in office other than being the first member of his race to achieve that office.


And he did nothing for "peace'....but his skin color was the main factor.


Well, Adolf Hitler was named TIME magazine's "person of the year" (I'm pretty sure it was called "Man of the Year then, but maybe not) in the late 1930's. Anybody can win a subjective criteria award like a Nobel Peace Prize. It's a mistake to read too much into such an award (especially the Peace Prize, which has had many true warmongers as it's winner).


network down, IP packets delivered via UPS -BOFH
Re: Harvard being sued for discriminating against Asian students [Re: javacontour] #4828045 07/31/18 07:32 PM
Joined: May 2013
Posts: 2,169
J
Johnny2Bad Offline
Offline
J
Joined: May 2013
Posts: 2,169
Originally Posted By: javacontour
Originally Posted By: Johnny2Bad

That College graduation is not an indication of intelligence is a simple fact; not an opinion. In Canada more than 50% of the adult over-25 population has a post-secondary diploma or degree; I don't think you are suggesting that 54% (2016 Census) represents "above average" intelligence, or that Canadians somehow are some kind of super-race. I certainly don't see much evidence to support it.

Opinions can be challenged by other opinions, facts must be disproved. That does not mean intelligent people cannot graduate college or that intelligent people are not part of the set of graduates versus the general population. I see no diminishing of achievement in any of that. A College degree *IS* an achievement by definition.


Both can be true.

The average college graduate can be more intelligent than the average non-graduate AND you have more than 50% of the population with a degree.

Not everyone gets a hard science or similarly academically rigorous degree. I won't go into some of the more dubious degree programs, but I imagine many can fill in the blanks.

A population as a whole can be more intelligent than another population and still have members who are less intelligent than the lower intelligence population.


Well, I don't want to belabour this much more, but the definition of "Average IQ" (I know, maybe moving the goalposts a bit there, but humour me) is when the mean = 100. So even if one population is smarter than another (by IQ score, should they take the same test, which actually rarely happens) the majority will still be "average". Obviously some will score higher and lower.

Of the 54% with post-secondary graduation I mentioned earlier, only 3.1% were some form below Bachelors, while the numbers with Bachelor's versus Masters or higher were roughly evenly split.


'57 FL Straight 50 wt
'90 Miata 1.8L w/Rotrex Supercharger [Mobil1 0W-40]
'96 Ram 1500 [3.7L Mobil1 0W-20 / 1L 15W-50]
'01 PT Cruiser [Mobil1 0W-40]
Re: Harvard being sued for discriminating against Asian students [Re: Oregoonian] #4828047 07/31/18 07:33 PM
Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 10,880
4WD Offline
Offline
Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 10,880
Originally Posted By: Oregoonian
Originally Posted By: ArrestMeRedZ
Originally Posted By: newbe46
I am wondering if this will extend to Nobel Prize. If diversification comes before objective measurable achievement, really what is the point of having something like SAT score?


It already has. One recent president received the Nobel Peace Prize before any accomplishments in office other than being the first member of his race to achieve that office.


And he did nothing for "peace'....but his skin color was the main factor.


Thought this post would get the Wilson Lock Time Award

Re: Harvard being sued for discriminating against Asian students [Re: Johnny2Bad] #4828059 07/31/18 07:50 PM
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 11,059
javacontour Offline
Offline
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 11,059
Originally Posted By: Johnny2Bad
Originally Posted By: javacontour
Originally Posted By: Johnny2Bad

That College graduation is not an indication of intelligence is a simple fact; not an opinion. In Canada more than 50% of the adult over-25 population has a post-secondary diploma or degree; I don't think you are suggesting that 54% (2016 Census) represents "above average" intelligence, or that Canadians somehow are some kind of super-race. I certainly don't see much evidence to support it.

Opinions can be challenged by other opinions, facts must be disproved. That does not mean intelligent people cannot graduate college or that intelligent people are not part of the set of graduates versus the general population. I see no diminishing of achievement in any of that. A College degree *IS* an achievement by definition.


Both can be true.

The average college graduate can be more intelligent than the average non-graduate AND you have more than 50% of the population with a degree.

Not everyone gets a hard science or similarly academically rigorous degree. I won't go into some of the more dubious degree programs, but I imagine many can fill in the blanks.

A population as a whole can be more intelligent than another population and still have members who are less intelligent than the lower intelligence population.


Well, I don't want to belabour this much more, but the definition of "Average IQ" (I know, maybe moving the goalposts a bit there, but humour me) is when the mean = 100. So even if one population is smarter than another (by IQ score, should they take the same test, which actually rarely happens) the majority will still be "average". Obviously some will score higher and lower.

Of the 54% with post-secondary graduation I mentioned earlier, only 3.1% were some form below Bachelors, while the numbers with Bachelor's versus Masters or higher were roughly evenly split.


Sure, the entire population, taking the same test will be average, 100. But you can break out sub populations and have an average that is lower or higher.

We see those results when they do tests and then give averages for ethnic groups, genders, people from geographic regions, etc.

Degreed and non-degreed individuals are subsets of the the overall population. It doesn't shock me that the degreed sub-population (and I should have made that distinction) would score higher.

It also doesn't shock me that there will be members of the non-degreed sub-population that would score higher than some if not ALL of the degreed population.

What is my IQ for making up the word degreed smile


network down, IP packets delivered via UPS -BOFH
Re: Harvard being sued for discriminating against Asian students [Re: javacontour] #4828065 07/31/18 08:01 PM
Joined: Jan 2017
Posts: 3,311
M
maxdustington Offline
Offline
M
Joined: Jan 2017
Posts: 3,311
Originally Posted By: javacontour
Sure, the entire population, taking the same test will be average, 100. But you can break out sub populations and have an average that is lower or higher.

We see those results when they do tests and then give averages for ethnic groups, genders, people from geographic regions, etc.

Degreed and non-degreed individuals are subsets of the the overall population. It doesn't shock me that the degreed sub-population (and I should have made that distinction) would score higher.

It also doesn't shock me that there will be members of the non-degreed sub-population that would score higher than some if not ALL of the degreed population.

What is my IQ for making up the word degreed smile


Forget the IQ, here's your Nobel Peace Prize laugh

It's the old "it's just a piece of paper" argument that I've heard from those who stayed at home to manage the Blockbuster instead of going to college like their successful friends did. It's so much more than that, if you are young, have financial and strategic support and are not an idiot, it is a good place to develop between 18-23.

The problem is I have never seen as many idiots congregated in one place as I did when I attended university. There are a lot of people in uni right now who should be in a trade school, no argument from me on that one. Even worse I became a school board caretaker after uni and all of dummies from uni were there but were 20 years older.


99 Toyota Tercel CE 5EFE/C151
Page 3 of 4 1 2 3 4
Previous Thread
Index
Next Thread

BOB IS THE OIL GUY® Powered by UBB.threads™