What car $5000, durability for long drives

[FutureDoc]

Originally Posted By: maxdustington
How do you beat EPA with a automatic trans? Driving like an old lady or filling up with E0. My original 25+ was incorrect, but there is no way people are pulling 30+ out of them driving fast. Sorry man, a 20% increase upon EPA with an automatic trans is just too much for me to believe. 24-28 is right where it should be.


Back in the day (early and mid2000s, including when E10 was becoming common), I could get 30-33mpg out of a 1991 4.9l Cadillac DeVille. Drove "over" the mountains from Knoxville/Bristol to Richmond. Now, this was VA along 81 pre-70mph era (so 60-65 mpg) with harsh HWP activity... so you were not going to be going 71mph+ if you did not want a trooper pulling you over every 5 mins.

Next, I get 29.7mpg out of my MR2 (25 claimed) and 23.1mpg out of my Genesis (19 claimed) while I drive it like I stole them 90% in town in the mountains. Heck, yes, I can coax 31+ on the highway with the 3.8 in my Ginny. You can beat EPA in a lot of cases, especially on the highway with mid/late 90s-2000s cars.

You can beat EPA estimate but it is harder with newer cars since they are fudging more to meet higher numbers.

That at the end of the day, the cars that "surprise" me with better fuel economy than expected are the GM V6. This is from a fleet perspective where my 3.8/3.6 Impala V6 would beat my Chrysler 3.3/3.6, the Ford 3.0, and even the Ford Hybrids from time to time (I get end-of-the-month reporting on economy). These folks were driving with "expense account fuel" so why conserve but those Impalas would get high 20s, low 30s on the end of the month analysis. This is true with both the older Series II 3.8 Impalas back in the day as well as the 3.6 (*3.6 is much better though). I would even say the ol' I6 Atlas Engine in the old Trailblazer could get low/mid 20s (2WD) on long trips and that was a thirst engine.

My counter-point is the FCA Pentastar 3.6 in the Journey. Those can top 23mpg to save their life it seems. Ignition off and rolling down the side of the mountain.... they still get terrible fuel economy.

 

[maxdustington]

Originally Posted By: Nick1994
The EPA estimates are often times nonsense.

My automatic Camry is rated for 28 mpg on the highway, I've gotten 37 mpg on the highway.

80 mph is more like 32-33 mpg. I also had a 97 Camry that did the same thing, I drove it to Montana at 80 mph and it got 32-33 mpg.


I've gotten 40 from my 15 year old car when the EPA was 29 HWY. Most of the time I think it was 6L/100km which is about 35 mpg doing 100km/h (speed limit) in the right lane. 25% over EPA observed on a manual transmission, sure. I am not going to imply my car gets 40 MPG because I had a miracle run once. 50% increase in EPA on a 15 year old American car with an automatic transmission? My four cylinder manual trans subcompact car could not break 25% over EPA when doing the speed limit, which is lower here in Canada.
Originally Posted By: ls1mike

If you do not believe someone then you are calling them a liar. Unless you think not believing someone means something else.

But hey people in here have already told you they did better than EPA even going over the speed the limit.

That's a pretty loose definition of a liar, you may not believe someone for a variety of factors outside of their control. You can't change the definition of something just to make it fit your narrative. You paint me as a liar while you use strawman arguments against me.

Another strawman, I did not claim that they could not drive over the speed limit and get over EPA. I said that there were those on this forum who greatly exaggerate their fuel economy with this particular car. I claimed it is difficult to believe 20%+ over EPA on a 15 year old American car with an automatic transmission, and the demographic of this board lends itself to being obsessed with the 3.8 in a Buick body. It's an old man car that has been bestowed with mythical powers of fuel economy because it has nothing else going for it beside low mileage.

 

[oilpsi2high]

Low mileage Chevy Cobalt 2.2L with no rust. Cheap to aquire, operate, and maintain. I put 150k on a SS Supercharged, purchased new 11 years ago and it is still my daily driver due to how reliable and cheap it has been to drive over the years.

 

[Rmay635703]

Originally Posted By: oilpsi2high
Low mileage Chevy Cobalt 2.2L with no rust. Cheap to aquire, operate, and maintain. I put 150k on a SS Supercharged, purchased new 11 years ago and it is still my daily driver due to how reliable and cheap it has been to drive over the years.


I second this one get an XFE and mid 40’s are easy and there is nothing to

 

[mjoekingz28]

3rd

Loved mine for 20,000 miles (130-150k).

The engine light was on and got 35mpg on a trip to the beach, but I think the gas pumps stopped at different points. 35+ is perfectly feasable to my thinking- but not easily done on a 4cyl with the AC going. I got a 26mpg average puttin' around town and 'withdrawing the carbon deposits' on the interstate from time to time. To be honest, its 4spd auto gave me hope for slushboxes. A very nice auto trans on that 2.2. Keep 'em tuned with syn oil, good air/oil/fuel filters and some 93 octane and it is a very fun car to drive. And since it can handle a near 300hp turbo, then the NA can be USED for fun and not really wear or break anything like a big block in a s-10 could. Keep good tires on it and get a good front end shop to give you good struts and rear shocks and you are in business. Nobody knows them like the factory/dealership, but they aren't so one off that you can't work on them yourself with the thing trying to bite your hand off....ahem, Dodge ahem Germany cars)

 

[skyactiv]

Be open minded and skip the default Toyota and Honda responses.

Why? Because they are not a good value in the used car market on the front end.

If your able to repair and maintain your own vehicles, you can usually buy an older American make cheaper.
There are plenty of "big three" and other non Toyota/Honda vehicles to choose from that have a reliable engine & transmission, but may need a little more attention to minor things like a starter, alternator..? That will still make it cheaper to own in the long run.

 

[Cujet]

I guess much of the success of owning an older car is being able to maintain it yourself.

It's truly amazing what shops will charge grandma because she simply does not want any problems with her car. Keep in mind that the "cost per mile" goes up sharply when the owner of an older car continually pays for repairs.

My Jag X-type has been downright cheap. But I do all of the work myself. Near 200K miles now and no major bills. However, I did repair the transfer case myself for $100. Vs. the dealership's $5000. Heck, the car was not worth $5K when I did the job 7 years ago.

 

[maxdustington]

Originally Posted By: Cujet
However, I did repair the transfer case myself for $100. Vs. the dealership's $5000. Heck, the car was not worth $5K when I did the job 7 years ago.

That is what it takes to keep an old car, most people are forced to basically total a car like an insurance company when a major drivetrain component fails when the repair is more than the car is worth.

 

[zorobabel]

Originally Posted By: KrisZ
My old Corsica with its 3.1 v6 and a three speed auto got around 22mpg city commute to college during the warm months and around 20 mpg during winter. It was not a powerhouse, but had tons of torque down low.

When I got rid of it and got a 95, 5spd Accord, I was surprised I got about the same mpg as the V6 and much heavier Corsica.

Those old, pushrod GM V6s got very good gas mileage, but the v-tech and DOHC crowd will have a hard time processing this.


I hear you. My 97 Maxima v6 gets about 2 mpg less than the 97 Accord i4 it replaced. However a 99 Camry i4 with manual tranny I had, got excellent mpg (I cracked 41).

 

[dohnuts]

Lots of good advice, quite a bit I agree with Back when I was younger I had a daily and a nice car but now just the daily driver is all I need. While I can do maintenance and simple repairs, I need to avoid catastrophic breakdowns as that puts me out of work, and while I don’t mind maintenance one weekend afternoon every month or so, I don’t want to be working on it every week just to keep it running.

I like the various responses so far, some cars I didn’t even think of. I see Cobalts and the newer Cruze around all the time. Cruze seems nice and I’ve been in a few but I think they are just out of the price range. Will definitely have to check out more Cobalts. Definitely in the price range.

The 3800 powered cars are very plentiful around me but so far the ads I’ve seen aren’t too promising. Either lots of rust or body damage or being over priced for what they are. Some promising Buick’s out there just have to figure out which ones are legitimate.

One car that is interesting is the 99-04 Acura RL. Presumably Acura 90s quality when they tried to copy the Lexus and Mercedes luxury but didn’t pull it off. The other Acura and Honda’s around then I like as well but the documented transmission problems make me think the ones for sale will need a replacement out of warranty. Lots of them for 2000-3000 a piece. Tempting to me but probably will pass. I like the 90s sedans from then but it’s difficult to find them in any kind of shape.

I really like the 2000-2001 Lexus Es300 and the generation after that. My parents have an 02 which has had some odd problems but they seem pretty solid. Little things like a slow battery drain that eats batteries and the exterior door handles breaking.

Also like the Nissan idea. I actually like their styling from the early 2000s and the engines as welll. Might be a good time for me to finally get a VQ powered ride. I hear mixed stories on reliability.

I really like cars but just don’t have a lot of time to devote to that hobby. I hope to share this with my boys, so like I said, something that is pretty basic but durable. I grew up on 90s Japanese cars and owned turn of the century GM (Ls1 Camaro was the best powertrain ive owned, the rest of the car...well let’s say it was like a high school girlfriend: looked great, hugged you like there was no tomorrow but it just wasn’t going to last.

Ah, anyway, back to the topic. Any other suggestions?

 

[FutureDoc]

I have another thought but it would break the $5K... actually triple it. The reason being that over the next 5-years the 5K car will cost a lot of money if you don't find that perfect gem.

You already have a Hyundai... look at '16/'17 Sonatas.

Around here you can get a cheap, near new Sonata for nearly sub $15K... even with some warranty left. They are as if not cheaper than some of the Elantra/Accents. If you run the cost per mile out, chances are that these sedans will rival a 5 year car and will be about as cheap as you can get. I do the fleet-side things and mid-sized sedans are often the cheapest, especially if I can get 30-35% off MSRP on a 1-2 year old option.

http://www.hunterhyundai.com/VehicleDeta...e-NC/3227956513

You can even go back to 14-15 as save a few dollar but the wear goes up. Kinda a different approach of just looking at the cost per mile but if course the cheapest option is to drive the cars you already own. Thinking out loud.

 

[Snagglefoot]

Keep and eye on the bulletin boards of the local old folks condos. Sometimes, grandpa buys a new car and only drives it to bingo. When he moves on to a higher level of care, the family puts the car up for sale with very few miles. Older car but very few miles.

 

[wag123]

Originally Posted By: Snagglefoot
Keep and eye on the bulletin boards of the local old folks condos. Sometimes, grandpa buys a new car and only drives it to bingo. When he moves on to a higher level of care, the family puts the car up for sale with very few miles. Older car but very few miles.

+1
Add to this... retirement apartment complexes, retirement communities (like Sun City), assisted living facilities, and even some churches.
IMO ANY GM product that has the Buick 3800 3.8L V/6 would be a good reasonably priced choice. They were used by most of the GM divisions in many mid and full sized vehicles over the years and many older/elderly folks still have them.

 

[Nick1994]

Originally Posted By: FutureDoc
I have another thought but it would break the $5K... actually triple it. The reason being that over the next 5-years the 5K car will cost a lot of money if you don't find that perfect gem.

You already have a Hyundai... look at '16/'17 Sonatas.

Around here you can get a cheap, near new Sonata for nearly sub $15K... even with some warranty left. They are as if not cheaper than some of the Elantra/Accents. If you run the cost per mile out, chances are that these sedans will rival a 5 year car and will be about as cheap as you can get. I do the fleet-side things and mid-sized sedans are often the cheapest, especially if I can get 30-35% off MSRP on a 1-2 year old option.

http://www.hunterhyundai.com/VehicleDeta...e-NC/3227956513

You can even go back to 14-15 as save a few dollar but the wear goes up. Kinda a different approach of just looking at the cost per mile but if course the cheapest option is to drive the cars you already own. Thinking out loud.

Pretty good idea. You can find 15'-16' used Sonatas that were prior rentals (mine was and it's fine) for $8,999.

 

[milehigh]

I'm also in CO and just did the same thing. I picked up a 2007 Acura TSX with the bulletproof Honda 2.4L for under 5k last month. It has 126k miles, runs and drives beautifully and averages 27-30mpg. It's comfortable on long commutes and easy to maintain. The only downside is Acura has the engine tuned for premium fuel. Overall a couple extra bucks per week for fuel is well worth it to us.

 

[Winterpeg]

Originally Posted By: oilpsi2high
Low mileage Chevy Cobalt 2.2L with no rust. Cheap to aquire, operate, and maintain. I put 150k on a SS Supercharged, purchased new 11 years ago and it is still my daily driver due to how reliable and cheap it has been to drive over the years.


I had a 2006 Cobalt 2.2L---junk. They are notorious for bad lower control arm bushings.As well the electronics are junk.First it was power door lock drivers side,then some blender motor buried in the dash that made a ratcheting sound every time you started the car.Labor to replace would have been 8 hours,you do the math.Poor design timing chain tensioner,starts slapping around 50K miles (they do have an upgrade though).Ignition coil/module problems aplenty (cobalt forum).I do have to say that the trans are good though.All these issues were within a 25000 km mileage span (80-105k).