please school me on a budget m1911 45acp

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Originally Posted By: hatt
The best budget 1911 says GLOCK on the side.


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All of the competition guys (IDPA, IPSC, etc.) used to shoot 1911s. And after years of tuning, upgrading parts, trying new springs, guide rods, magazines, and repeated trips to gunsmiths etc....along came Glock.

And we all laughed....hahaha, is that thing microwave safe?

Hahaha....dont leave it on the dashboard, it will melt.

Now fast forward 15 years or so....

....everyone is using Glocks, the standard of what people considered "reliable" has drastically changed (improved thanks to Glock) and unfortunately, prominent gunsmiths are now fading away as the art becomes less and less relevant to the everyday shooter.

These days the old pistolsmiths who truly are artisans of the craft are like the maytag man....loneliest guy in town.

Its sad...but true.
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First, $400 is pretty low for a quality all metal pistol.

But near that price, Rock Island makes a decent product.

Second, while I love shooting my 1911s (a Colt in .38 Super and a Springfield Range Officer in .45 ACP) I'm not certain your stated goal of "concealed carry" is going to be well served by a 1911. They're big. They're heavy. They're hard to conceal. Some of them have reliability issues when feeding anything other than ball ammo.

Bedside/Home Defense application is a good fit, provided that you're willing to shoot/train with a 1911. Single action options, including cocked & locked, need to be trained, and there are lots of cases of 1911 owners being unable to employ their pistols in a timely manner.

A Glock would always be my first recommendation for a self-defense semi-auto pistol. Simple, reliable. No manual of arms with a hammer and/or safety, just pull the trigger and it goes bang every time.

The 1911 is a classic. I love the feel, especially the feel of the trigger (series 70), and they're great fun. But I'm not certain that self defense, concealed carry, and your price can all be met by a 1911.

I know those criteria can all be met by a good, used, or blue label, Glock.
 
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I bought a new ATI 1911 last year for dirt cheap. It worked well for a while, but after a few hundred rounds, I had to replace the extractor. It had worn out. The same thing happened to the recoil spring soon after. I put in a Wolff spring. Now it works perfectly.
 
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Originally Posted By: 007
I love my Ruger 1911! Feels perfect in the hand, operates perfectly and shoots on the money!
How many thousands of rounds do you have through it?
 
I find it funny that people pay so much for a 1911 when even it's Hay Day it wasn't as good as the other Pistols of the time such as the Hi-power, Luger or P-38. It was a cheap gun, made to mass produce for the army to fight a war and somehow got turned into a status qoe to own and make probably the most expensive pistol out there, it's just crazy what people pay for them. Buy a Llama and it's better than a Ratted out Colt 1911 that someone pays over a $1000 for, it's probably better than that Colt was when it rolled out of a mass production factory in 1942, but that's the legend.
My son calls them the AARP .45 because only the old guys tout them, have to say I agree.
 
Originally Posted By: Panzerman
I find it funny that people pay so much for a 1911 when even it's Hay Day it wasn't as good as the other Pistols of the time such as the Hi-power, Luger or P-38. It was a cheap gun, made to mass produce for the army to fight a war and somehow got turned into a status qoe to own and make probably the most expensive pistol out there, it's just crazy what people pay for them. Buy a Llama and it's better than a Ratted out Colt 1911 that someone pays over a $1000 for, it's probably better than that Colt was when it rolled out of a mass production factory in 1942, but that's the legend.
My son calls them the AARP .45 because only the old guys tout them, have to say I agree.



This couldn't be more accurate. Cheap, mass produced hunks of worthless scrap metal that in their hay day (1911 to roughly 1979)....

- ran through the muddy hel in the trenches of WW1

- that were drug through the sand at Omaha beach and fought throughout the pacific theatre

- repelled human wave attacks of Chinese at the Chosin reservoir

- cleared nightmare tunnel complexes in Vietnam.

Not to mention that during the second world war they were so obsolete that the Wehrmacht had 1911s produced in occupied and other countries under contract.

Google "Kongsberg Colt"

We really need a sarcasm emoji!

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I like the 1911 platform, and own many. With that said there are far better self defense pistols out there today. As was mentioned, the 1911 is heavy, large, difficult to conceal, and has limited magazine capacity. And it tends to be unreliable. Especially if it's downsized. At least to the point of using it to defend your life. I know there are people who will argue that, but it doesn't change what is and isn't about this gun. Most self defense trainers with any credibility will tell their students the same thing. They all can't be wrong.

Military service grade 1911's are loose and sloppy. They have to be in order to run with any degree of reliability. They are also as inaccurate and difficult to hit anything with, as an adolescent with a sling shot. As soon as owners and gunsmiths start tightening them up, they start becoming less reliable. Tighter frame to slide fit. Tighter barrel to bushing fit. All will add to the lack of reliability. And most need to be throated to feed open nosed hollow point self defense ammunition with any reliability.

The question then becomes why bother? There are literally dozens of better performing pistols that you can purchase right out of the box, that will run with 100% reliability with any type of ammo you care to stick in them. Platform loyalty and praise becomes foolish if it can get you killed. My 1911's are great range guns. And I enjoy shooting all of them in that capacity. But I own much better pistols for the role of concealed carry and personal self defense.
 
Originally Posted By: billt460
...As was mentioned, the 1911 is heavy, large, difficult to conceal...


Maybe if you dress like Jimmy Buffett or you wear spandex bike shorts on your days off
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The 1911 is long, and heavy but it is relatively thin and if your wardrobe is built with concealed carry in mind, it can be oriented on your person so that it is easy to carry and wont print. Guaranteed
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Originally Posted By: billt460
... has limited magazine capacity...



This is the biggest drawback in the 21st century. Being relegated to magazines that can carry 7-8 rounds is a drawback in a time when plastic guns have magazines with capacities of 10, 15, 17, 18+ rounds.
 
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The magazine capacity limitation of the 1911 platform is not really a concern for the OP.

He stated that he WANTED under ten rounds for compliance (doesn't say where he lives, but that implies NJ or CT).

A reliable 1911 for $400 presents a challenge, however.

And if used for self defense, it will require some training to make the manual of arms instinctive. OP said he used them in the Army, so he's familiar.

But for me, the $400 and reliable requirement is the biggest hurdle...
 
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Originally Posted By: hatt
Handguns have no impact on the outcomes of wars.


Exactly, but then you have to understand the minset of 1911 .45 Auto owners. A 9 mm will kill a man, but a .45 kills his Soul.
I actually have one on those Spanish made 1911 type guns made for the Germans with the insigna in 9 mm.
It wasn't that they contracted them, it's what they bought because the Luger's and P38s we're too expensive to produce. Police, not military got the 1911 copies.
 
Originally Posted By: hatt
Handguns have no impact on the outcomes of wars.


Neither do rifles, artillery, bombers, radar or atom bombs....alone.

Point was they were not mass produced junk as some would have you believe.



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Exactly, but then you have to understand the minset of 1911 .45 Auto owners. A 9 mm will kill a man, but a .45 kills his Soul.


Best quote of the day!
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Do H&K, Glock, Springfield, Beretta, FN (to name a few) owners all feel the same way? You do realize there are other pistols chambered in .45 ACP right? It is popular for a reason.
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I actually have one on those Spanish made 1911 type guns made for the Germans with the insigna in 9 mm.
It wasn't that they contracted them, it's what they bought because the Luger's and P38s we're too expensive to produce. Police, not military got the 1911 copies.


They were also produced in occupied Norway..in 45 auto...and used by the Germans (not to mention their use as battlefield pick ups, of which they seemed to be very fond.) But again, this isn't meant to be a history lesson thread!
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Originally Posted By: Panzerman
A 9 mm will kill a man, but a .45 kills his Soul.


I fail to see the link between this statement and the 1911 platform? The 1911 comes in 9 MM, .45 ACP. .38 Super, and 10 MM. There are better self defense handgun choices in any and all of those calibers besides the 1911.
 
We will have to agree to disagree.
I believe war time production was about quanity not quality. Regardless I think any of the modern 1911s built today are better than the Wartime ones and can be had much cheaper. Modern computerized factories and machining are making everything better and cheaper. From guns to tools to cars.
 
Hahaha yea no thanks... Not trusting my life to a cheap 1911. Heck I have a hard time trusting my life to ANY 1911 to be honest. Ill take my G27 any day over those guns.
 
An alternative to the 1911, that holds 8+1 in a single stack magazine, is all steel, very reliable, very accurate, and would be a solid choice for self defense, is the S&W 4506. The 3rd generation S&W pistols are heavy, but reliable and accurate. You might find one that suits your budget.
 
We used to call those Jam-Mo-Matics. Maybe the third generation pistols got better...

But Smith and Wesson does have the absolute, hands down, best customer service and warranty program of any manufacturer out there so a used smith is not a bad idea
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Originally Posted By: jk_636
We used to call those Jam-Mo-Matics. Maybe the third generation pistols got better...

But Smith and Wesson does have the absolute, hands down, best customer service and warranty program of any manufacturer out there so a used smith is not a bad idea
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3rd gen Smiths run like a sewing machine. I never cared for the SA/DA trigger however.
 
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