MAF failure from lightly-oiled air filters?

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Lightly-oiled air filters like Fram TG/Ultra, STP Premium, and the old blue P1's that Purolator doesn't make anymore.

Keep in mind these are NOT saturated in oil like K&N, but a much lower amount of oil. The heavily-oiled K&N is known to cause MAF failure besides just being poor media that lets too much dirt in the engine.

The lightly-oiled media, by contrast, is supposed to be MAF-safe. But that is my concern now. I think my MAF may be no good after about 35k and 3 years on it. I bought a Bosch MAF, which happens to be a reboxed OEM MAF. Car has 285k now, had about 250k when I installed the MAF. 1996 I30/Maxima, has a Fram TG air filter with the yellow media. Before that, it had the pretty blue P1 air filter.

And now I'm not sure whether the air filters may have caused the MAF failure. While this sensor failure is common on these cars, 35k still seems too soon.
 
I don't think it's an issue. Tons of OE paper filters are oiled. Honda comes to mind.

I don't think K&N filters are the huge issue that people think either - I think people over-oil the heck out of them and cause issues then blame it on the filter.
 
From the K&N people:

We are aware of the "urban myth" (K&N News Story) created by a few dealerships that a vehicle's MAF sensor can be contaminated by K&N filter oil. No evidence has ever been provided to support this "myth" and years of diagnostic testing by K&N has shown that not only is this allegation not real, it is not even possible. In our opinion, it is an excuse for a dealership and/or the vehicle manufacturer to avoid a legitimate warranty repair. In the last 4 years, we have sold over 10,000,000 lifetime air filters and received only a few hundred calls from consumers who are having dealership or service provider challenges. We believe that Dealership's or service provider's real incentive may be to discourage the use of reusable products so they can sell disposable products over and over. In order to provide consumers with added comfort that they will not be placed in a bad position by an improper warranty denial, we offer our Consumer Protection Pledge.
 
At least 60K worth of oiled K&N in my IS and no MAF woes. Hasn't been cleaned once in it's lifetime.
 
I ran my K&N in my Nissan Pathfinder 4.0 V6 for 80,000 miles with the filter being excessively over oiled mistakenly by me and never had an issue. I also took a rag with solvent on it and wiped the after filter part of the air intake tube twice once at 40,000 and again at 70,000 and the white rag was completely clean so no oil or dirt or dust in the intake.
 
The oil can contaminate the sensor, The oil itself making it fail would be odd. Remove the MAF & look at the small wires in the air path.....They should be "Shiny & Chrome" looking.
If their black & nasty looking. Try some cleaner first. If that doesn't do it......You may have physically scrap the [censored] off, I use a pocket flat blade screwdriver......Just be careful, They are very fragile!!!

I've seen bugs, leaves, acorn shells & all kinds of things lodged in MAF sensors. Removing the obstruction & cleaning the MAF usually fixes the issue.


As for K&N air filters......NO WAY in Hades would I run one in my vehicles.
When I worked as a GM dealer Tech, I saw too many Duramax engines get "Dusted Down" & ruined from K&N filters.
 
Originally Posted By: jhg7
From the K&N people:

We are aware of the "urban myth" (K&N News Story) created by a few dealerships that a vehicle's MAF sensor can be contaminated by K&N filter oil. No evidence has ever been provided to support this "myth" and years of diagnostic testing by K&N has shown that not only is this allegation not real, it is not even possible. In our opinion, it is an excuse for a dealership and/or the vehicle manufacturer to avoid a legitimate warranty repair. In the last 4 years, we have sold over 10,000,000 lifetime air filters and received only a few hundred calls from consumers who are having dealership or service provider challenges. We believe that Dealership's or service provider's real incentive may be to discourage the use of reusable products so they can sell disposable products over and over. In order to provide consumers with added comfort that they will not be placed in a bad position by an improper warranty denial, we offer our Consumer Protection Pledge.


Yet K&N WILL NOT pay for engine damage caused by their sub-standard products. As for dealers/shops/techs pushing new air filters.....They are more of a "Loss Leader Product/Service".
 
Originally Posted By: Dyusik
At least 60K worth of oiled K&N in my IS and no MAF woes. Hasn't been cleaned once in it's lifetime.


Here too, Sonata for 10K. No issues,

Been using them for decades. Never had a high Si UOA or MAF sensor problem.

It's a shame so many others have had terrible experiences with them.
 
Originally Posted By: rooflessVW
I don't think it's an issue. Tons of OE paper filters are oiled. Honda comes to mind.

I don't think it's an issue either and you are correct, Honda does use OEM pre-oiled paper filters (as well as other OEMs). Every Honda I'm maintaining right now (three of them) uses those. They are in varying mileages, 40k, 80k, 20k, none of them have ever had a MAF issue. I've tried cleaning the MAF on some of them too, made no difference. Also the intake portion past the air filter on all three cars using the pre-oiled paper filters are completely dry. No oil or anything.

I would think in order to pull oil off of a filter you would have to have significant vacuum but at the air filter side of the intake system (before the throttle body) there isn't that much vacuum. The vacuum occurs past the throttle body. The vacuum source is too far enough away from the filter to generate enough suction.

The filter media is designed to be porous both to hold dirt and both to allow air to pass through. What happens to cellulose or fibrous things with lots of porous surface area? They absorb things by surface tension. That's how paper towels absorb water. When a paper filter is pre-oiled, that porosity is going to keep the oil clinging to the paper (as water would paper), that same porosity also allows air an easy path through, then to top it off there's air being pulled through the filter without massive suction, all of this adds up to not pulling any oil off. Instead the air is going to pass by and any dirt it's carrying is going to collide with the oiled media and stick. That's it and that's what it's designed to do.

If you're worried that oil did it in, why not try cleaning it? But given the above my bet is it's not the oil, there's too much working against it.

When you take it all in, I don't see a problem with machine oiled paper air filters. I'd trust that more than someone over-oiling an air filter (even though that's probably fine too according to K&N studies). I think the bigger problem is not the oil (I agree with K&N studies showing the oil even at overoiling is not an issue) but the higher flow allowing more dirt through on some filters (like K&N) than others.

Using pre-oiled air filters like the ones Fram sells or OEMs use is not going to ruin anything.
 
Its no urban myth. My fathers Mustang set off a check engine light. It was under warranty. I took it to Ford and they replaced the MAF and charged him for a paper filter. Never had an issue again. Factory oiled K&N filter.
 
Originally Posted By: FastLane
Its no urban myth. My fathers Mustang set off a check engine light. It was under warranty. I took it to Ford and they replaced the MAF and charged him for a paper filter. Never had an issue again. Factory oiled K&N filter.

And that's proof that the K&N caused it?

Was the MAF dirty? Did you see the part? Isn't it possible that the part would have failed anyway?
 
Our Liberty has around 60k on a K&N drop in filter and never had a CEL other than gascap.
 
Originally Posted By: rooflessVW
Originally Posted By: FastLane
Its no urban myth. My fathers Mustang set off a check engine light. It was under warranty. I took it to Ford and they replaced the MAF and charged him for a paper filter. Never had an issue again. Factory oiled K&N filter.

And that's proof that the K&N caused it?

Was the MAF dirty? Did you see the part? Isn't it possible that the part would have failed anyway?


Yes. It was coated in oil. Ford doesn't clean MAF sensors. They replace. The car had 10,000 kms on it. It was new at the time and still under warranty.
 
Originally Posted By: rooflessVW
Originally Posted By: FastLane
Its no urban myth. My fathers Mustang set off a check engine light. It was under warranty. I took it to Ford and they replaced the MAF and charged him for a paper filter. Never had an issue again. Factory oiled K&N filter.

And that's proof that the K&N caused it?

Was the MAF dirty? Did you see the part? Isn't it possible that the part would have failed anyway?


FWIW, in the Mustang community it was not uncommon for the MAF's to get oil contaminated and almost all of these cars had K&N's or clones. When I converted my '87 GT T-Top to MAF with an A9L and stock MAF, I also experienced MAF contamination with my oiled K&N, which worked just fine when the car was speed density. I sourced a stock airbox and put a panel filter in it, ditching the stock silencer. The MAF stayed clean.
 
So maybe the sensitivity of the MAF itself comes into play?

Did you re-oil the filter before installing it, after switching from speed-density?

I haven't had any issues - intake is clean and bone-dry.
 
Originally Posted By: rooflessVW
So maybe the sensitivity of the MAF itself comes into play?

Did you re-oil the filter before installing it, after switching from speed-density?

I haven't had any issues - intake is clean and bone-dry.


Yes, that filter had been cleaned and oiled several times. I'm sure that didn't help.
 
My fathers car was brand new with a brand new K&N. I convinced him to buy it. I still haven't heard the end of it lol. Ford was good that they didn't charge him for the MAF. He never had an issue with Motorcraft filters.
 
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