please school me on a budget m1911 45acp

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jstert

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after swearing off the m1911 due to a lousy experience with a totally clapped out one during army basic training in 1972, im rethinking. i have been a revolver guy but recent, good experiences with a russian makarov 380acp and a spanish star bm 9mm are leading me to consider a budget m1911 45acp for mostly range & home defense use, and secondarily as a ccw. i want to spend around $400, and dont mind ordering from gb.com.

my lgs has a 4” ati on sale for $380. he claims that it will run just fine, and accepts all m1911 mags and cheap steel case ammo. im thinking the 4” barrel offers best compromise for effective sight radius, less muzzle flip and ease of ccw. i prefer steel over polymer handguns, and single stack mags that are under 10 rounds (geographic political constraint).

appreciate folks’ collective wisdom on brands, size, new vs used, etc. thanks!
 
So you had a bad experience with a 1911 & want to buy a cheap one thinking it'll be different this go-round? Ohhhh-K.

I have a Kimber & Ruger. They both run fine & I'm proud to know my money went Made in USA.
 
My RIA 9mm has functioned flawlessly, but it hasn't been shot a whole lot yet. The past several years I have mainly been shooting my .22's. I don't think I would be comfortable taking a chance on anything cheaper than a RIA.
 
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to stevejones: as i said, the bad experience was during army basic training with a clapped out m1911. picture an 18 yr raw recruit with a screaming jerk of a d.i., and a pistol that hadnt been cleaned since 1945, and you might get the picture. it was so bad for the whole lot of us that a higher up intervened and marched the entire platoon off the range early.

im more of a single action revolver guy these days. i have and appreciate both the ruger single six and the heritage roughrider. i have had a bunch of mercedes and now enjoy a base vw. i have shot both kimber and ruger 1911s owned by my brother and son. budget has its place and im thinking of a budget 1911...
 
I could relate my personal preferences, but my major lesson learned is to shoot a gun type before you buy it.
I had a friend with a full sized 1911 and a steel Commander I was able to use at the range, along along with my Colt 1911 Gold Cup and my S&W 9mm. I liked the handling and feel of the Commander. I ended up giving away the Smith Sigma (Stigma?) and bought a used rough finish Colt Commander for use as a home defense and tactical range gun. Liked it enough I've bought 2 more, one Colt and a Para Ord P13. All were used and in the $450 price range.
The first Commander needed the extractor adjusted, the Para needed cleaning and new mags (I think it wes shot without cleaning until it didn't function, then sold to me cheap). Clean and with good mags, it and the others have performed flawlessly.
I bought my Para and Colts used because that is what I could afford at the time. Now that I could afford new, I would still buy used because of the good luck I have had.
P.S. I would never buy a new gun made in a state that was rabidly anti gun.
 
Originally Posted By: AVB
My RIA 9mm has functioned flawlessly, but it hasn't been shot a whole lot yet.....


I also purchased a 9 MM Rock Island Armory 1911. It runs flawlessly as well. If money was an issue, RIA is about the best of the cheapest 1911's out there. They also supposedly have very good customer service. But I've never had to use it. I paid only $357.00 out the door for it a few years ago. That was about half of what my Springfield Stainless Mil-Spec costs. And it is also considered a budget 1911.
 
There are a number of well made 1911s around the $500 range. There are some Phillipino guns that are outstanding quality and shoot like a dream. But no matter what you purchase, whether it cost $500 or $5000 there is a golden rule of 1911s...the stock magazines are junk and are responsible for a good majority of the failures you may encounter.

Step 1: Take magazines that come with the firearm...and throw them away.

Step 2: Replace with Wilson Combat magazines.

Step 3: Enjoy!

As for the "cheap" steel ammo...Go ahead and shoot it with confidence.

You will hear people say the lacquer coating gunks up the chamber...false. Been proven false over and over and over again.

You will hear people say the steel cases will damage your extractor...false. Your extractor is much harder than the mild steel the cases are made of.

You will hear people say its dirty...Absolutely true, but you should clean your weapon after you get done shooting everytime anyway so this is a non issue.

As someone who used to work in this industry we shot cases upon cases of Tula, Ulyanovsk, Wolff, Monarch steel and others...cases of it with no real problems. Not loaded to the hottest specs but they go bang every time. The REAL reason ranges don't like you using steel cases...at the end of the day all of the casings are collected and sorted and the brass casings are worth much more in scrap than the steel cases.

The one exception...anything - bear. Golden bear, silver bear, brown bear...that is junk and has been responsible for more malfunctions than I care to remember.

Good luck OP!
 
Originally Posted By: jk_636
There are a number of well made 1911s around the $500 range. There are some Phillipino guns that are outstanding quality and shoot like a dream. But no matter what you purchase, whether it cost $500 or $5000 there is a golden rule of 1911s...the stock magazines are junk and are responsible for a good majority of the failures you may encounter.

Step 1: Take magazines that come with the firearm...and throw them away.

Step 2: Replace with Wilson Combat magazines.

Step 3: Enjoy!

...


That is complete hogwash.

I would avoid anything under 5” unless you can verify its machined to “Commander” specifications and not just short slide stuck on a Government frame. I’d choose a 4.25 with a conventional bushing to a 4” with a bushing less barrel that goes times 2 for an inexpensive gun.
 
Originally Posted By: jk_636
But no matter what you purchase, whether it cost $500 or $5000 there is a golden rule of 1911s...the stock magazines are junk and are responsible for a good majority of the failures you may encounter.

Step 1: Take magazines that come with the firearm...and throw them away.....


This is also complete hogwash. It is foolish to automatically assume that every 1911 manufacturer supplies "junk" magazines with their firearms. First off, most all gun manufacturers contract out their magazines to outside vendors. They don't make them in house. This is especially true of AR-15's and 1911's. And several other auto pistol manufacturers as well, like Beretta and CZ who contract through Mec-Gar for all of their OEM magazines they supply with their weapons. They make some of the best magazines out there.

I have many 1911's from Springfield Armory. Everything from their low cost Mil-Spec guns, to a high end Trophy Match Model. And everything in between, including a Range Officer Model, and a Long Slide. Not only does every magazine they shipped with their guns function perfectly, but I have used their, "Loaded Coupon" you receive with every gun to purchase dozens more at good discount prices.

All of them work perfectly, drop free, and lock the slide open on the last shot. They also feed FMJ Ball, as well as open nose self defense hollow points effortlessly. What more do you want from a magazine? Manufacturers want to deliver their products in good working order. The last thing they want is for someone to drop well into 4 digits on one of their 1911's, only to have it not function correctly because of a bad magazine.

These magazine suppliers who supply large gun companies like Springfield with magazines, know if they start getting too many complaints over faulty magazines, they won't have a contract for very long. And you don't have to spend $35.00 for a 1911 magazine to have it work properly. Just this past Winter I purchased a dozen 1911 magazines from Sarco out of Pennsylvania.

They make them on their own tooling. They even have pictures posted on their website of all the progressive stamping dies and tooling they have to produce them. If you buy 10 or more they are only $8.00 each. Every one of them operate in every 1911 I have tried them in. Again, they drop free, and feed everything I stuff in them. I had only one that wouldn't lock the slide back on the last shot. Not the end of the world to say the least.

I'm not saying you can't get a bad cheap magazine. But you don't have to pay Wilson prices to get a good one either. I've convinced myself of that, because I have and use both. But using price alone to determine magazine quality is economically foolish. Especially when you have no idea who made them in the first place.
 
Crud that was not what I meant to do.

The part about the magazines is what I was referring to as complete hogwash, not the part about the pistols.
 
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The thing you have to remember about magazine manufacturing, is the tooling they are made on is what determines the quality. And gun manufacturers look into this before they sign contracts with magazine suppliers. They know what it takes to make a good, quality magazine. Generally speaking the more steps that are taken in forming the magazine, the better the end product.

By that I mean the more progressive the die is in forming, and the more steps the die takes in making all the bends, the better chance there is for consistency in the finished magazine. Naturally the more steps that are built into a progressive stamping die, the more expensive that tooling becomes to produce. Anything can be shortcut to reduce cost.

Another area they can shortcut is to use thinner, more malleable material. Thinner material can be formed easier, and in fewer steps. But the end result is a thinner magazine that is less consistent, and has less overall strength, and is less likely to hold it's shape. Pro Mag is famous for this. (Or I should say infamous). Their magazines are thinner than most all OEM magazines. And most all of them lack manufacturing consistency. You might get a good one that works in your weapon. But the odds are against it. They keep their magazines so cheap, they are banking you won't even bother to return it.

If you want to see really good evidence of this, compare a steel Pro Mag AK-47 magazine, to a all steel Bulgarian AK mag. The Bulgarian model is noticeably heavier and thicker. Especially in and around the feed lips. The Pro Mag model is thin and cheap. Yet both are not expensive. CDNN Sports often has new Bulgarian 30 round all steel AK mags in the packing grease on sale for $14.99. (Product # BUL1).

https://www.cdnnsports.com/762x39-30rd-steel-bulgarian.html?___SID=U#.W1MZNbfn93E

There is no finer magazine you can stuff into an AK-47. Every one I have runs like a Rolex. Pro Mag? Good luck. Again, the cost of both magazines is about equal. Proving you don't have to spend big bucks to get a good functioning, quality magazine.
 
I didn’t say all pistols stock magazines are junk, I said all “standard” 1911 mags are junk. Compare apples to apples here man. They are all junk for the same reason, spring and follower.

GI mags (or contract mags whatever) are junk because of the design of he spring and follower. About 7 out of 10 malfunctions we saw (conservatively) were magazine related, and could be alleviated exclusively by upgrading the magazine. The rest being a mixture of problems such as feed ramp needed to be polished, ejection port lowered or a few various others problems fixed by gunsmithing. That or it was because of the design. Something likes combat commander or smaller. The smaller you force john browning masterpiece to become, the more problems you will have. Or anything branded Kimber, but that is a sore spot I won’t pick at for now
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Wilson combat mags (which are the industry standard amongst those who trust their lives to a 1911 professionally or shoot competitively) have infinitely better followers and springs, and if your firearm is malfunctioning, I can gaurantee you that the first thing any gunsmith will do....throw the mag away, replace it with a Wilson and watch that thing rock and roll.


For those who are not well versed in working on or shooting the 1911, you can use the AR world as an example.

The difference between a contract 1911 style mag and a Wilson is the difference between a contract AR mag With the old black follower and a PMAG.

The PMAG wins every single time because of the design of the follower (amongst other things).

So OP you want a great shooting 1911? Find a brand you like, make sure it’s the full size govt. model, a 70s series is preferable but 80s series is just fine, ditch the junk mags and replace them with wilsons and keep that thing lubed and it should run as the day is long.
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Rock Island, ATI and Metro Arms (American Classics) all have great reputations for affordable 1911's that run out of the box. I'd avoid falling into the Taurus trap personally.

Spend a bit more you can get a used name brand gun, but that's a guess with 1911's as you never know what the PO has done and 1911's are notorious for being tinkered with.

I personally favor Commanders, but as mentioned for out of the box problem free shooting a full size is a better bet.
 
Rock Island Auto (RIA) Rock Series 1911 in the configuration you like - never hear a bad word about their reliability and most people (including those with higher end 1911's are STUNNED by how well and reliable the Rocks run ... Yes they are cast metal and not forged with a basic parkerized finish (I like) but the bottom line is the Rock series 1911 run and run and run - most after 100 round break in , virtually all after 500 rounds ... Some 1911's costing more never run right even after break in . Rock's customer service in Nevada is excellent as well - you don't like something and they will make it right . Lastly , the Rock series goes for $500ish (depending on the model within the Rock series)
 
So I know there are haters out there, and there was once a time when I would have turned my nose up at one, but you should take a look at Taurus. Two years ago I came across a deal for a stainless AR-1911 new for around 425.00. The fit and finish is on par with thousand dollar pistols, and it has never failed to fire or eject after 1000 or so rounds.
 
Originally Posted By: barber613
So I know there are haters out there, and there was once a time when I would have turned my nose up at one, but you should take a look at Taurus. Two years ago I came across a deal for a stainless AR-1911 new for around 425.00. The fit and finish is on par with thousand dollar pistols, and it has never failed to fire or eject after 1000 or so rounds.


Guess that depends on what your definition of “is” is.
 
OP:

If I was looking at a budget 1911, I'd look at RIA. Heard good things from multiple sources, including a good friend who's a competition shooter.
 
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