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Do you thing the advancement in batteries has peaked and there will not be any further improvements or breakthroughs?
 
Originally Posted By: SHOZ
Do you thing the advancement in batteries has peaked and there will not be any further improvements or breakthroughs?


No...never once have I said that.

Do you think that the energy density and charge time is going to improve 20 fold for the former, and 100 fold for the latter ?

And what do you base this on ?
 
Originally Posted By: Shannow
Originally Posted By: SHOZ
Do you thing the advancement in batteries has peaked and there will not be any further improvements or breakthroughs?


No...never once have I said that.

Do you think that the energy density and charge time is going to improve 20 fold for the former, and 100 fold for the latter ?

And what do you base this on ?
I don't know as I cannot tell the future.
 
But you are basing the future on your pure imagination ?

I'm a buggy whipper because I can state categorically that the item that you brought to the discussion is impractical simply because you IMAGINE that it could be orders of magnitude better ?

With no basis for your views ?

WOW

Without crystal balling, I can confidently state that 20 times energy density and 100 times rate of charge WON'T be achieved.

https://www.extremetech.com/electronics/...percent-by-2020
EnergyDensity.jpg


The X and Y axes need to be extended to 4,000 and 5,000 respectively.

Just using force of logic, that's extremely unlikely, wouldn't you agree ?

(then there's multi MW charging rates...but we've discussed that in other threads.)
 
Originally Posted By: Shannow
But you are basing the future on your pure imagination ?

I'm a buggy whipper because I can state categorically that the item that you brought to the discussion is impractical simply because you IMAGINE that it could be orders of magnitude better ?

With no basis for your views ?

WOW



Just what did I say?
 
Farm machines run on diesel. Conventional farming depends on petroleum. That's all we know right now.
 
Originally Posted By: hatt
Farm machines run on diesel. Conventional farming depends on petroleum. That's all we know right now.
That's a fact.
 
Originally Posted By: SHOZ
Originally Posted By: hatt
Farm machines run on diesel. Conventional farming depends on petroleum. That's all we know right now.
That's a fact.
Not sure why you posted the electric tractor.
 
Originally Posted By: hatt
Originally Posted By: SHOZ
Originally Posted By: hatt
Farm machines run on diesel. Conventional farming depends on petroleum. That's all we know right now.
That's a fact.
Not sure why you posted the electric tractor.


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It's fun being called a Luddite because you don't buy into fantasy. When a new tech is ready for primetime, you don't need to convince people, from the barrel of a gun, of it's virtues.
 
Originally Posted By: hatt
It's fun being called a Luddite because you don't buy into fantasy. When a new tech is ready for primetime, you don't need to convince people, from the barrel of a gun, of it's virtues.


Oh I don't know about that. You have technologies ready to go but there's the curmudgeon factor. And people are scared and not that educated in general.

Think about how Edison electrocuted an elephant and dogs to prove ac was no good but DC was great. Its just dumb stupid uneducated stuff. Car forums are full of that.

And big oil is the Edison right now.
 
Originally Posted By: Shannow
Hope that they are cheap enough that the farmer can have two of them, one to do work, one to charge.

Can really see them catching on...

Especially with our grid, here.
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And yes, when a farmer wants to harvest for 14+ hours, this is no good. But, I'm sure someone can "come up with" a magical charger that will charge that up in six minutes on one phase power.

SHOZ: JD is selling an idea here. This is a marketing exercise. Other companies (and probably JD themselves) are here busting their backsides to make autonomous power units on the farm, where they will have the cost effectiveness for a small farmer to have one and a larger operation to have more than one. This is where autonomous vehicles will advance - on the farm. A $500,000+ electric monstrosity that can only work for three hours is an answer to a question no one asked. And, I don't care what laws of physics Musk et al are convinced they can break, if you can make an autonomous power unit that is cost effective, fuel (or electricity) efficient, and logistically flexible, then you've got something, rather than relying on something enormous and expensive and having all the creature comforts that a modern tractor has.

You want to talk about whipping buggies, nothing is more long in the tooth, from an agricultural perspective, than a human being sitting in an air conditioned tractor pulling a cultivator for 14 hours. The same goes for swathing, spraying, and harvesting. There's a reason my dad had me do the cultivating as a kid. He had better things to do.
 
Originally Posted By: hatt
Originally Posted By: SHOZ
Originally Posted By: hatt
We're a long way from getting 10+ hours of battery on a large farm tractor/machine. From looking around the future of these machines appear to be autonomous tractors that can work 24 hours a day. Batteries aren't going to be relevant for a while.
That's a fact and today's cars are a long way from the Model A. They call this Research and Development......

And today's corn and soybean farmer actually use a tractor much less than back in the day. I bet they don't run 25% of the time they use to 20 years ago. Most have their fields tilled and planted in two weeks anymore vs three months.

Well no kidding. Look at the size of an old tractor vs the monsters we have today. My Ford 641 was a decent sized tractor in the 50s. It's a toy on a current farm. With your electric tractors they'll be back to months! Progress!!!!

But seriously. Battery tractors are a ways off. John Deere concept tractors are simply for show.


Sure, equipment size plays into it, but also farming techniques. Many farmers have gone to low till or no till farming practices. In my area, no till is catching on pretty quickly. There is no plowing, disking, planting, cultivating, harvesting anymore. Just planting and harvesting. The only tillage of the ground is when the planter knives cut in to place the seed. Even subsoil ripping is slowly falling out of practice. The key being, don't disturb the soil anymore than necessary.
 
Most farms have a couple of smaller tractors used for support task. Hauling the grain from combine to take away truck, moving wagons around at their elevators, picking up hay rolls, mowing, the list goes on and on.
 
Originally Posted By: TiredTrucker
Sure, equipment size plays into it, but also farming techniques. Many farmers have gone to low till or no till farming practices. In my area, no till is catching on pretty quickly. There is no plowing, disking, planting, cultivating, harvesting anymore. Just planting and harvesting. The only tillage of the ground is when the planter knives cut in to place the seed. Even subsoil ripping is slowly falling out of practice. The key being, don't disturb the soil anymore than necessary.


But they still need the tractor to run that 14 hours a day when they need to...
 
Originally Posted By: Garak
Exactly. No one is harvesting for three hours a day only.


As I said earlier...if the average use is 1 hour per day, but the use is task specific/seasonal, you can't use annual averages to justify a technology.

See it here in that a statement
Quote:
Most have their fields tilled and planted in two weeks anymore vs three months


is used to justify a tractor that can only work 2-3 hours in every day...when it's in reality a statement of the highly intensive use for a brief period.

It's the double speak that is being used at every turn by those with a certain bent, be it wind, solar, EV's Electric semis, and yes, electric tractors.
 
Precisely. Eliminating much seasonal tillage is great, and that's been a trend for many, many years, already. The advantages are irrespective of the technology used to power the equipment. Seeding, spraying, and harvesting are long days over a short period for the power unit. The tractor might not turn a wheel for the entire month of July. That louses up the average, but certainly doesn't bank the hours for harvest.

Three hours at a time won't work for any of these activities.
 
We've had electric forklifts for decades. I'm sure there will be a market(homeowners/homesteaders/etc) for electric tractors if they get a decent one on the market. It's not going to be commercial farming.
 
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