2006 Prius - Hybrid Battery Failure

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Originally Posted By: andyd
The guy fixing his ailing battery by cleaning the connections was awesome! I'd feel smug for at least a month if I pulled off such a fix.
grin2.gif


He did better: he built himself a Jurassic Park Explorer.... square screens and all...
 
Originally Posted By: spackard
Could you other guys clear out of this thread?
Form your own thread for mileage, comparing a Prius to a truck, etc.
This is covering a battery repair/replacement.


Spackard, perfect analogy: there is such a thing as a Prius (powered by a) Hemi....
 
to the first and 2nd posters
are those prices DIY?
most of us will not DIY on a Prius.
and there are not many $50 dealer fixes (post 2,) post 1 is an installed battery price?? or just the part with no ;labor?
 
Last edited:
The Critic/OP,

It seems your friend's Prius hit all the "bad" things list: hot area and short tripping in a less hot area...

P.S. My '13 Mazda5 battery died at 30-35k miles: former Texas car then local mom-mobile...

Thank you for any updates.
 
Originally Posted By: edwardh1
to the first and 2nd posters
are those prices DIY?
most of us will not DIY on a Prius.
and there are not many $50 dealer fixes (post 2,) post 1 is an installed battery price?? or just the part with no ;labor?

[off-topic]
I think the OP/The Critic is in the business and has access (or works all day) to a fully equipped garage.
[/off-topic]
 
Originally Posted By: supton
Originally Posted By: Pelican
Hybrids make sense if 90% of your driving is in the city and if all you're interested is fuel economy. The fuel cost difference drops significantly if you're driving mostly on the hwy. There is also the enjoyment factor, my neighbour had a Prius and a more BORING car I've never driven, but his goal was to see how low a fuel consumption he could get. In he beginning I too was concerned about battery life, but Toyota has done a great job in assuaging this concern


Sure, but isn't the Prius a 50mpg vehicle? Like in the real world, gets 50mpg on the highway. Lots of cars getting up there but how many are hitting 50mpg?


My parents have documented into the 60 mpg range with their Prius on the highway.

That said, I generally agree with the premise that for typical drivers, highway starts to erode the fuel savings.

My accord hybrid is case in point.

All highway I’ll do 40-42 mpg.

In the city I’ll do 50-60.

There are other cars that will at least approach 40 mpg highway. Thing is, do they have the space and comfort of my Honda? Likely not.

And if my highway is 55-65 instead of 65-75, I’m more like 43-45 mpg.

The only comparable car I can think of that returns that on the highway with regularity and similar volume is an e-class diesel. For a LOT more money.

The other thing is that the hand waving that other cars can get such high highway mpg starts to fall by the wayside when traffic, city, and idling starts to play in. The 40+ is the exception, not the rule, while for the hybrid, all highway is still doing well, but can only improve from there...
 
Originally Posted By: goodtimes
Another cost saving on these cars is they have no alternator or starter to fail. No transmission clutches either.


The stator is a common problem in many high mile Prius, at near 200k usually.

Still, it will probably even out cost wise vs the transmission or starter / alternator cost.
 
Originally Posted By: Pelican
Hybrids make sense if 90% of your driving is in the city and if all you're interested is fuel economy. The fuel cost difference drops significantly if you're driving mostly on the hwy. There is also the enjoyment factor, my neighbour had a Prius and a more BORING car I've never driven, but his goal was to see how low a fuel consumption he could get. In he beginning I too was concerned about battery life, but Toyota has done a great job in assuaging this concern


They make sense if you are doing all highway long range driving too. 40mpg to 55mpg is still a pretty good saving.
 
The atkinson cycle engine is 37% thermally efficient and the teardrop shape makes these cars do decently on the highway for MPG. It drops off quickly over 70 MPH but I suspect if I had instant feedback on a conventional car it too would do so.

Also undersold is the amazing air conditioning-- it taps the high voltage and runs full bore even at a stop. Others cars are limited at idle by slowly turning compressors and maxed out 12V alternators.

So, critic, is this new battery brand new? As in all new modules? The Dorman rebuilts take 12+ year old modules then mixes and matches them on similar electrical characteristics. Seems if the electrolyte dries out (slowly) this wouldn't buy another dozen years.
 
Originally Posted By: Nick1994
... Starter went out so she gave it to him for $300.
No it didn't, because there is no starter. Maybe something "went out," causing it not to start?
 
Originally Posted By: CR94
Originally Posted By: Nick1994
... Starter went out so she gave it to him for $300.
No it didn't, because there is no starter. Maybe something "went out," causing it not to start?


I love those phone calls. People will ask for a starter on a hybrid and I just say "go fish."
 
Both the car and the battery are here, I will update with pictures and more info tomorrow.

I picked up the battery earlier today. Here are some photos:




Originally Posted By: mattwithcats
Probably just a dead cell or two in the battery.

Less than $50 fix, just replace the cell(s) with low voltage...

Fairly easy fix, only major problem is lifting the battery out, heavy...

Google Prius battery fix....


Replacing individual cells is a short-term fix. Usually the other cells have experienced significant deterioration as well.

Originally Posted By: edwardh1
to the first and 2nd posters
are those prices DIY?
most of us will not DIY on a Prius.
and there are not many $50 dealer fixes (post 2,) post 1 is an installed battery price?? or just the part with no ;labor?


Just the part. No labor.

Originally Posted By: pandus13
The Critic/OP,

It seems your friend's Prius hit all the "bad" things list: hot area and short tripping in a less hot area...

P.S. My '13 Mazda5 battery died at 30-35k miles: former Texas car then local mom-mobile...

Thank you for any updates.


Upon further review, it appears that the vehicle has been driven for 1300 miles in the last 12 months, and its last trip was over 3 weeks ago. It also stays parked outside.

Originally Posted By: PandaBear
Originally Posted By: goodtimes
Another cost saving on these cars is they have no alternator or starter to fail. No transmission clutches either.


The stator is a common problem in many high mile Prius, at near 200k usually.

Still, it will probably even out cost wise vs the transmission or starter / alternator cost.


This is a problem with the Gen 1's, not the Gen 2's.
 
Sorry, I meant to update this on Friday evening but forgot.

The swap is done and the car is back on the road. The new battery from Toyota requires reusing the existing HV Battery Computer and a few other components. New bus cables and nuts are provided though. Swapping over the parts is not a difficult process, but does require a certain level of care. Nthach came by and helped, which made the process go a lot faster.

With the new battery installed, all fault codes are gone and the car drives better than it has in years. There is minimal fluctuation in SOC (even compared to my 2011). This goes to show that battery deterioration is a very gradual process, so there may be some value in processes such as the Prolong reconditioning system. I took it for a long drive (with owner permission) and was able to get 49 mpg without even trying (70-75mph, a/c set to 70F), which is much better than what I get in my newer gen 3 under the same conditions.



Lastly, prior to the swap, the fault codes were P0A80 and P3017. As you can see, block 7 was the main culprit:

 
Since The Critic mentioned me, the job isn't as bad as many mechanics or layspeople think it is. Sure, there's a ton of warning labels to keep people from screwing around if they don't know what they are doing. While you can wear lineman's gloves and use insulated tools once the capacitors in the inverter above the drive unit are exhausted and the service plug on the battery is pulled, the hybrid system is electrically isolated and the battery is safe to work on. The relays that are responsible for the high voltage interlocks(which isolate the battery pack from the inverter) are in the battery pack's sidecar.

While Toyota's hybrid batteries are air-cooled(unlike the 2nd gen RAV4 EV which is basically a Tesla Model S underneath and that's liquid-cooled) and might not cope well in hot climates, there was a good level of thought applied to how the battery pack was laid out and built. The modules that build up the battery pack's module arrays are custom-made Panasonic NiMH prismatic modules good for 15-16V. The 1st gen Prius and all the Honda(non-2 motor system) hybrids used 7-8 D-cells in a serial string to form a module.

Toyota and Panasonic could have done a better job ensuring the battery module terminals were free of corrosion. While NiMHs are intrinsically safer than a LiIon/LiPo in the event of a pack breach, they still use an alkaline electrolyte. Each pack module was vented to the atmosphere.
 
Critic, out of curiosity, what was the block voltage and internal resistance of the new battery unit?

From one of your pics, it shows block #7 as the main culprit, with a low block voltage and a high internal resistance. I wonder if it would make sense to only replace the faulty block? How much deterioration has the other block experienced in comparison?
 
Originally Posted By: chrome
Critic, out of curiosity, what was the block voltage and internal resistance of the new battery unit?

From one of your pics, it shows block #7 as the main culprit, with a low block voltage and a high internal resistance. I wonder if it would make sense to only replace the faulty block? How much deterioration has the other block experienced in comparison?


The new pack displayed voltage and resistance values similar to the “ok” cells in the bad pack. My understanding is that load testing the individual blocks and cells (off car) is the only way to truly determine their condition.

Replacing the obviously bad cells and performing a few discharge/recharge cycles will probably result in a pack that will last long to resell the car. Load testing the individuals modules and replacing the obviously weak cells will make it a better repair. Ultimately, it is impossible to predict how long the finished product will last. A new pack is the only viable option for a long term repair.
 
I love how in the picture of the replacement process, you can clearly see a bottle of M1 EP in the seat pocket.

This a Prius that likes to drink oil?
 
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