Fuel pump age, wear, cooling, replacement brand

[wrcsixeight]

My TBI fuel system requires 15PSI, and I see when searching through new fuel pump offerings they list anywhere from 26 GPH flow to as high as 75 GPH

There seems to be a lot of arguement whether the fuel pump actually being submerged keeps it any cooler than when exposed, because of the fuel flowing through it, saying submersion is an old wives tale.

I am wondering just how much fuel actually flows through it to maintain that 15PSI.

I most often drive with less than 1/4 tank and I doubt the top of the vertically mounted cylindrical fuel pump is submerged at this level.

I've had a few stalls recently, that I am not sure are fuel related, and it has restarted, but required the extra few seconds to restart, like it is building pressure after the fuel pump lost power or quit temporarily or sucked in some air.

I have checked the fuel wiring and connectors. The ground bolt was stripped but not loose or showing any signs of oxidation on the ring terminal or surface it was mounted to, and it has not stalled since, but I have not driven much since.

The Delphi replacement pump I am considering, says expected fuel pump life is 7 to 10 years seemingly irregardless of mileage.

The current Carter pump I am using, and suspect might be near or at end of life, was installed in 2006, mileage less than 40K.

Rockauto has fuel pumps ranging from 22$ to Denso at 64$, and I was considering the Delphi Bosch or Denso turbine style pumps as opposed to the gear style pumps.

I am not sure whether the Carter I have now is gear or turbine. It is not currently loud, but the one I replaced in 2006 was buzzing loudly before it failed.

So how much cooling does the fuel passing through the pump actually do, and how does that compared to the pump being submerged in fuel?

Would members here choose Delphi over Denso or Bosch?


https://www.rockauto.com/en/moreinfo.php?pk=1114082&cc=1073506&jsn=452&jsn=452


I am considering replacing it proactively, just because of the age and the stalls, and the inconvenience and possible danger of it giving up entirely on the road somewhere.

 

[Donald]

What vehicle is this? A GM in early to mid 1990s?

 

[UncleDave]

Most fuel pumps flow more than needed and simply return the unused fuel to the tank in a return loop.

The fuel cools substantially.

If an in tank fuel tank mounted pump runs dry because you ran out of gas you can easily kill it by continuing to try to start the car.

In my experience they will often pass an initial pressure test, but fail to pump what you need as they warm up.

It could also have an integrated filter thats simply plugged up.

UD

 

[wrcsixeight]

1989 dodge B250.

I've never run the tank dry but have had it stall at lower fuel levels during hard braking and cornering, Always restarts.

The latest stalls were not during braking and cornering and had fuel level higher than those times it did stall under those circumstances.

Previous and recent restarts do take a few more seconds of cranking before it restarts.

I know the fuel is basically flowingin a loop to and from the TB through a rather large external filter, I just do not know if it is 26 gallons per hour or the 76 GPH that is the spec of a different brand pump for same application.

I wish I took amperage measurements when it was new, for a comparison now.

 

[nthach]

In a pre-LEV/ULEV car without a returnless fuel system, while there is definitely fuel flow, the amount that's available to keep the fuel pump body immersed is dependent on what's in the tank. The fuel coming back in is warm, but the fuel tank serves as a heat sink of sorts.

There is a check valve in the pump to prevent vapor lock - the fuel pump in an MPI car can throw up to 80-100psi unregulated. The FPR is responsible for keeping fuel pressure within spec - as long as the fuel pump can put out.

I think the Delphi pump is made in China - Carter tends to be hit or miss but they do have a better reputation that Airtex. I've use Bosch and Denso when I had to replace fuel pumps - they only offer a turbine-based pump for applications that originally used a rollervane or gerotor design. Carter also pushes turbine-based.

 

[silveravant]

Is there some reason why you drive most often with less than 1/4 tank?

 

[andyd]

My first 528e, the Borman6, was retired at 350 Kmiles with its original Bosch main pump in fine working order. In the 200K I put on it, it was only run out of gas twice. YMMV

 

[jakewells]

i replaced the factory fuel pump in my truck in 2016 with a delphi and that is the only pump i buy. back in 2007 i replaced the fuel pump in my dads truck with a delphi its a 89 gmc 1500 and it is still going strong.

 

[wrcsixeight]

Originally Posted By: silveravant
Is there some reason why you drive most often with less than 1/4 tank?



Not a good one.

I've just throw 20$ worth in it every few weeks.

 

[Driz]

Not to be a wise #$& but there’s your solution . Make +- 1/4 tank your new empty.. now if you were flying a plane that weight might factor in but with a road vehicle, naww. Besides you may like laying on your back eating 5 lbs of rust to drop a tank or pull a box. Me not so much.
If it was me that would be my solution..

 

[wrcsixeight]

Well, if the pump has been compromised to the point it now overheats in the Sub 1/4 tank range, where it has lived a lot of its life, driving over 1/4 tank would be a mere band aid, and at some point the failing pump will let go anyway.

I'd rather replace it before it lets go when Murphy decides the worst possible time has arrived.

But I am not even sure the stall is fuel related, it is just highest on my suspected lists of culprits, and I am contemplating acquiring a new pump and setting up for its replacement when convenient. Rather than having to possibly deal with a tow truck after it stalls and refuses to restart in a busy intersection.

 

[Lubener]

The pump is cooled by the incoming fuel which it draws.Having to be submerged is a myth.Running out of gas, sucking dirt past the sock or a running a half plugged filter is what will do in most pumps.You should hang a gauge on it and situate it so you can monitor its activity while driving and hopefully you can get it to act up, otherwise you are just guessing. Stalling can be caused by a dozen issues even a power issue to the pump.

 

[MasterSolenoid]

Originally Posted By: Driz
Not to be a wise #$& but there’s your solution . Make +- 1/4 tank your new empty.. now if you were flying a plane that weight might factor in but with a road vehicle, naww. Besides you may like laying on your back eating 5 lbs of rust to drop a tank or pull a box. Me not so much.
If it was me that would be my solution..

It looks like you have a Van.
To make changing the Fuel Pump easier, you might consider:

Cutting a 'hole' in the floor directly over the Fuel Pump.
When finished, use a 'metal patch' that can be easily removed for inspection / future pump replacement.

I was going to do that with my 2002 Ford Ranger but the Fuel Pump is directly under the Bed & Cab gap area.

What 'you' could do ……..

 

[Donald]

I put a couple in my 1993 Suburban. It's was a PIA to drop the tank. The first time I snapped some fuel line connectors and had to put in a new sending unit also. Given the time involved to do the work, I would install the highest quality pump avaliable, maybe OEM.

 

[CharBaby]

I too installed a new Delphi lifetime warranty fuel pump($300) in the '06 Mazda3 in my signature, when I removed the gas tank to have it soldered/pressure tested/reconditioned professionally($60). It's working perfectly after 2 yrs.

In this case of the 1stGen Mazda3, the fuel pump is located in the tank but, below the trunk area w/no access panel and is not located under the back seat access panel(wire connection). This was a California tank & pump. The Federal/Canada tank & pump, the pump is located under the back seat access panel...Just saying for those who may be interested.

 

[wrcsixeight]

A visible fuel presure gauge while driving is no doubt a good idea, I'll look into how to tap into my fuel system, although the fuel pressure regulator is on the throttle body, so I'd likely have to tap the return line.

Cutting an acess panel with the tank down is also a possibility, although my Van does have a thick square metal bar inside which might interfere, and which cannot easily be removed.

While I am not sure the pump is nearing or at end of life, it could be.

There still seems to be strong opinions whether the fuel pump submersion is required for proper cooling or if the fuel running through it is mroe than adequate for cooling. Likely application specific but broad brush strokes are the norm.

I think it can be said that while perhas a low level of fuel in the tank might not have the pump in the dangerously hot category, but being submerged no doubt keeps it cooler.

those needing to argue, could Argue how much that matters, but without actual data, on pump temperature submerged vs exposed, that arguement is pointless, in my opinion.

My pump has been not been fully submerged for most of its 12 year lifespan, and could have aged faster than otherwise.

Or the problem could lay elsewhere.

 

[MasterSolenoid]

Originally Posted By: wrcsixeight
A visible fuel presure gauge while driving is no doubt a good idea, I'll look into how to tap into my fuel system, although the fuel pressure regulator is on the throttle body, so I'd likely have to tap the return line.

Cutting an acess panel with the tank down is also a possibility, although my Van does have a thick square metal bar inside which might interfere, and which cannot easily be removed.

While I am not sure the pump is nearing or at end of life, it could be.

There still seems to be strong opinions whether the fuel pump submersion is required for proper cooling or if the fuel running through it is mroe than adequate for cooling. Likely application specific but broad brush strokes are the norm.

I think it can be said that while perhas a low level of fuel in the tank might not have the pump in the dangerously hot category, but being submerged no doubt keeps it cooler.

those needing to argue, could Argue how much that matters, but without actual data, on pump temperature submerged vs exposed, that arguement is pointless, in my opinion.

My pump has been not been fully submerged for most of its 12 year lifespan, and could have aged faster than otherwise.

Or the problem could lay elsewhere.


If a Access Panel would be beneficial,
cut it WITHOUT removing the Tank.