High Milage Oils on Low Milage Engines

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Most of what I’ve read about high mileage oils is that they contain seal conditioners and often more detergents and they can safely be used on low and high mileage vehicles. Additionally, many of the recommendations on here with respect to HM oils are made after someone posts about a problem with oil consumption on a high mileage motor.

Right now Mobil 1 EPHM is the same price as Mobil 1 EP and since I have a car with 5K miles and a car with 60K miles it would be easier to stock one version. Is there any value to running high mileage oil on a low mileage engine continuously over it’s lifetime (Ex. to keep the seals conditioned and never allow them to deteriorate in the first place or to keep the engine cleaner due to high levels of detergents)? If so why doesn’t everyone do this - are there any downsides?
 
If you don't have leaks or oil consumption I wouldn't use a HM oil. A good oil has all the additives needed to properly protect and maintain an engine in good condition. If/when you have problems then give a HM oil a shot. I have a vehicle over 30 years old now, and it has never seen a drop of HM oil. At the moment I have no issues that would warrant it. Having said that you can use a HM oil in a brand new car if you desire to.
 
Originally Posted By: demarpaint
If you don't have leaks or oil consumption I wouldn't use a HM oil. A good oil has all the additives needed to properly protect and maintain an engine in good condition. If/when you have problems then give a HM oil a shot. I have a vehicle over 30 years old now, and it has never seen a drop of HM oil. At the moment I have no issues that would warrant it. Having said that you can use a HM oil in a brand new car if you desire to.


Why? I've used it off and on since my Corolla has had 66K miles on it has never been an issue sometime HM oils are what's on sale. I've been doing this for over 6 years now. I don't always use it when I've switched back to non HM oil there has never been an issue.
 
Originally Posted By: JohnnyJohnson
Originally Posted By: demarpaint
If you don't have leaks or oil consumption I wouldn't use a HM oil. A good oil has all the additives needed to properly protect and maintain an engine in good condition. If/when you have problems then give a HM oil a shot. I have a vehicle over 30 years old now, and it has never seen a drop of HM oil. At the moment I have no issues that would warrant it. Having said that you can use a HM oil in a brand new car if you desire to.


Why? I've used it off and on since my Corolla has had 66K miles on it has never been an issue sometime HM oils are what's on sale. I've been doing this for over 6 years now. I don't always use it when I've switched back to non HM oil there has never been an issue.


It won't hurt the car. As I said he can use it in a new car if he chooses too. I never bothered with HM oils, I was always able to get deals on the others, and never felt the need for a HM oil. There's nothing wrong with what you're doing either. Different strokes for different folks.
 
I talked to Valvoline's lead chemist years ago about this. He claims you can use a HM oil in a new car and in fact it states that on MaxLife's PDS. Mobil will tell you not to use a HM oil until you need one. I believe seal conditioners that Valvoline uses condition the seals to help restore them by making them more pliable. Some have claimed they cause seals to swell. Valvoline will deny that. I don't know the answer to that. There could be more than one type of seal conditioner. I do not see any issues using a "modern" HM oil in a new car. I personally would wait until the car is older, however, some do believe that by using a HM before you see leaks helps keep the seals in better shape. All oils have seal conditioners, HM oils just have more.
 
If I was allowed to change my own oil without the condo gods descending on me with wrath I'd probably buy one of those new cheap synthetics.

As it is now, I find MaxLife blend worth the extra $10 or so if I get the right coupon at my oil change place and have had very good luck with it on lower mileage cars--think it's get a better add pack than VWB. My "bought from Hertz and pray" Soul is doing well with MaxLife @ 44,000 mi. Nothing scientific to base it on but I'm planning on doing 6000 mile change intervals with MaxLife but might drop it to 5000 with VWB.
 
Originally Posted By: buster
I talked to Valvoline's lead chemist years ago about this. He claims you can use a HM oil in a new car and in fact it states that on MaxLife's PDS. Mobil will tell you not to use a HM oil until you need one.

Valvoline MaxLife has been SN/GF-5 for some time, whereas M1 HM has used more dated specs. It's interesting to note, though, that Mobil Super 2000, the HM oil that Mobil has had here for years, has always been ILSAC rated, at least since SM/GF-4 days.
 
Originally Posted By: demarpaint
Originally Posted By: JohnnyJohnson
Originally Posted By: demarpaint
If you don't have leaks or oil consumption I wouldn't use a HM oil. A good oil has all the additives needed to properly protect and maintain an engine in good condition. If/when you have problems then give a HM oil a shot. I have a vehicle over 30 years old now, and it has never seen a drop of HM oil. At the moment I have no issues that would warrant it. Having said that you can use a HM oil in a brand new car if you desire to.


Why? I've used it off and on since my Corolla has had 66K miles on it has never been an issue sometime HM oils are what's on sale. I've been doing this for over 6 years now. I don't always use it when I've switched back to non HM oil there has never been an issue.


It won't hurt the car. As I said he can use it in a new car if he chooses too. I never bothered with HM oils, I was always able to get deals on the others, and never felt the need for a HM oil. There's nothing wrong with what you're doing either. Different strokes for different folks.



No issue with demars response. Why put a fix to it if it ain't broke.
He said he never felt the need to use it. I haven't yet either but that's not saying it will destroy your engine.
Sometimes it is so cheap I've been tempted to use it in OPE.
 
Originally Posted By: Zee09
No issue with demars response. Why put a fix to it if it ain't broke.
He said he never felt the need to use it. I haven't yet either but that's not saying it will destroy your engine.
Sometimes it is so cheap I've been tempted to use it in OPE.


Any thoughts on Supertech HM oil or just regular Supertech oil?
 
If you look at the back of a bottle of Valvoline full syn high mileage, the way they rate their oils, the high mileage oil has better wear protection. That alone would cause me to use the HM version of full syn Valvoline over the non-HM. Why would they do that anyway? I mean make the HM version better on wear protection? Why would you want their best available anti-wear after 75,000 miles?
 
If I had a new vehicle that took conventional oil, then I would be highly tempted to use VML from day one. It would never develop any leaks, right?
 
Get the full syn or full syn HM Supertech. It's only about a dollar or 2 more ($15.65 around here for 5 qts) for the 0W-20, 5W-20, or 5W-30 versions and is Dexos 1 Gen2 rated, so probably a really decent oil for cheap at 5000 mile oci or more.
 
As I have said before on this site. I don't buy oil when it's on sale. I buy it when I need it. I used to "hoard" oil when it was on sale and I ended up with at least 20 gallons I didn't know what to do with. Gave most of it away to my kids and used the rest in lawn equipment.

I think I've gotten smarter? :) I buy oil on specs and HM oils carry the specs I'm looking for. After a lot of reading I'm not impressed with ILSAC and API standards. ILSAC goes a little farther than API by a little. Both API and ILSAC oils are CAFE driven and are on the lighter side (ASTM D445 and HTHS). Something my old junks with high mileage don't appreciate.

I've sided with ACEA specs which are, mostly, driven by engine manufacturers (like ILSAC but more extensive). The 5w-30 I use in my sig is an A5/B5 and the 10w-30 is an A3/B3 ACEA oil. Very impressive to me.

Would I use a HM oil in a new vehicle. Absolutely if it has the ACEA specs I like.
 
Originally Posted By: Zee09
Originally Posted By: demarpaint
Originally Posted By: JohnnyJohnson
Originally Posted By: demarpaint
If you don't have leaks or oil consumption I wouldn't use a HM oil. A good oil has all the additives needed to properly protect and maintain an engine in good condition. If/when you have problems then give a HM oil a shot. I have a vehicle over 30 years old now, and it has never seen a drop of HM oil. At the moment I have no issues that would warrant it. Having said that you can use a HM oil in a brand new car if you desire to.


Why? I've used it off and on since my Corolla has had 66K miles on it has never been an issue sometime HM oils are what's on sale. I've been doing this for over 6 years now. I don't always use it when I've switched back to non HM oil there has never been an issue.


It won't hurt the car. As I said he can use it in a new car if he chooses too. I never bothered with HM oils, I was always able to get deals on the others, and never felt the need for a HM oil. There's nothing wrong with what you're doing either. Different strokes for different folks.



No issue with demars response. Why put a fix to it if it ain't broke.
He said he never felt the need to use it. I haven't yet either but that's not saying it will destroy your engine.
Sometimes it is so cheap I've been tempted to use it in OPE.


I guess what I’m asking is why let it break in the first place? All things being equal as far as price why let the seals lose elasticity with increased mileage and then use try and use something to remedie the problem if you can just use the remedie at no additional cost the entire life of the engine?

Unless I’m missing something here?
 
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Any properly API rated oil should be fine for your engine.

Pure speculation on my part, but a HM oil is supposedly to be used on a HM engine; by definition an engine with a limited future life expectancy. I wonder if the additive package has some properties that would be expected to be appropriate for no more than, perhaps, another 100K miles or less. No idea if there is anything to it, but it's what i would be wary of until I knew for sure.
 
NO, that'll work. Lots of hot-rod folks have been running HM oils from engine break-in onward. There is no reason not to use one
smile.gif
 
Originally Posted By: Johnny2Bad
Any properly API rated oil should be fine for your engine.

Pure speculation on my part, but a HM oil is supposedly to be used on a HM engine; by definition an engine with a limited future life expectancy. I wonder if the additive package has some properties that would be expected to be appropriate for no more than, perhaps, another 100K miles or less. No idea if there is anything to it, but it's what i would be wary of until I knew for sure.


I feel your pain but your speculation is something you should free your mind about. Go to any oil manufacturers site and they will say you can use their HM oils right out of the showroom floor. HM oils is a marketing tool that I believe Castrol came up with in the 90's. So, everyone had to come up with their special brew to compete. I think a better definition for "High Mileage Oil" would be "Robust Engine Oil". All this talk about not using it in new engine or once you use HM oil you can't go back (like syn vs conventional) is wrong.
 
I’d say HM oil is safe to use in any (older) low mileage engine, HM oil formulas aren’t witchcraft, typically it goes something like that:

- an extra portion wear protective additives as ZDDP as older vehicles has higher moving masses in the valvetrain and may be slighlty worn internally already
- extra cleaning additives to remove possible oil coal/sludge that accumulated over the years, to free sticky piston rings
- an extra portion seal caring additives to help to restore any smaller leaks that might have formed over the years and help to fight oil consumption by leaks
- usually those oils are a bit on the thicker side to offer higher temperature stability
- blowby is often an issue on older worn engines, those oils are thicker and have lower NOAK values so that they don’t burn off the cylinder walls as easily and reduce oil consumption by burning oil

I am preventatively using HM oil in my engine since some years. Its 30 years old, extremely clean inside, dry on the outside, doesnt burn any oil and runs very, very smooth.




Just today, I did a little topspeed run on the german autobahn to find out, if it still makes its besaid power. I’ve been flooring it for minutes straight whenever possible for over 50 miles reaching top speeds of 115 mph at 5000 rpm with average cruising speed between 90-100 mph at 4700 rpm. It’s still dry on the outside, didn’t burn any oil and ran silky smooth afterwards.
 
Originally Posted By: PWMDMD
Originally Posted By: Zee09
Originally Posted By: demarpaint
Originally Posted By: JohnnyJohnson
demarpaint said:
If you don't have leaks or oil consumption I wouldn't use a HM oil. A good oil has all the additives needed to properly protect and maintain an engine in good condition. If/when you have problems then give a HM oil a shot. I have a vehicle over 30 years old now, and it has never seen a drop of HM oil. At the moment I have no issues that would warrant it. Having said that you can use a HM oil in a brand new car if you desire to.


Why? I've used it off and on since my Corolla has had 66K miles on it has never been an issue sometime HM oils are what's on sale. I've been doing this for over 6 years now. I don't always use it when I've switched back to non HM oil there has never been an issue.


It won't hurt the car. As I said he can use it in a new car if he chooses too. I never bothered with HM oils, I was always able to get deals on the others, and never felt the need for a HM oil. There's nothing wrong with what you're doing either. Different strokes for different folks.



No issue with demars response. Why put a fix to it if it ain't broke.
He said he never felt the need to use it. I haven't yet either but that's not saying it will destroy your engine.
Sometimes it is so cheap I've been tempted to use it in OPE.


Originally Posted By: PWMDMD
I guess what I’m asking is why let it break in the first place? All things being equal as far as price why let the seals lose elasticity with increased mileage and then use try and use something to remedie the problem if you can just use the remedie at no additional cost the entire life of the engine?

Unless I’m missing something here?


Maybe the advertising is working? I haven't a clue. I'm running a van vintage 1988, no oil leaks, zero. The only gasket I replaced was the push rod cover, not a big deal. Would a high mileage oil have saved it? I have no answer for that either, it lasted 28 years. I can guess and say no a HM oil wouldn't have helped, someone else might say it would have. Who would be right? The answer would be a guess, the guy that favors a HM oil would vote in favor, someone like myself would say no.

With regard to Valvoline saying HM oils offer better wear protection. Better than what? Their regular oil? All oils? I was never a fan of Valvoline oil anyway so the point is moot for me. XOM says don't use their HM oil unless you need it. Confusing. If I feel a need for the HM oil I'll certainly use it, I have nothing against it. My prior comments remain the same. A person can use it w/o fear in an old or a new vehicle. I will add one thing to it, if the XOM comments presented here are true, use another HM oil in a new/newer car. XOM doesn't advise you do so with theirs, and their warranty might be in jeopardy if the new car warranty is denied, or no longer in effect, if there is an oil related problem. A long shot, but always a chance.
 
Valvoline MaxLife (at least the thicker viscosities they sell over here) contain lots of ZDDP. An additive that isnt commonly used that much in modern motor oils anymore because if burned in great amount it damages catalytic converters over time. It used to be fairly common 20-30 years ago because it forms a thin protective layer of ZDDP that covers the bearings, shafts ecetera. This is especially important for older flat tappet OHV engines that put extreme stress on the camshaft, have you ever tried compressing a valvespring with your finger? One would probably end up breaking his thumbs instead of compressing them.



The difference between a modern oil and the Maxlife with bigger amounts of ZDDP can be clearly seen.

Shell Rotella and Petronas Synthium 1000 also contain higher numbers of ZDDP.

I don’t know if your american 10w30 or 0w20 HM oils contain those high amounts though, I highly doubt it, because I never heard of a 20/30 weight motor oil with lots of ZDDP.
 
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