Recent Topics
New pennzoil rebate 7/16-12/31/19
by pdxglocker9mm. 07/17/19 03:11 AM
'82 BMW 733i M30 - Which Oil
by TXCarGeek. 07/17/19 02:07 AM
Aother MEGA score+Free Mobil 1 oil change
by GMguy84. 07/17/19 12:39 AM
I think I need therapy...
by tony1679. 07/16/19 11:53 PM
Hellcat engine in a Miata
by hate2work. 07/16/19 09:59 PM
Alignment shop questions
by Jeff999. 07/16/19 09:45 PM
ZF Aftermarket, Why Change Your ATF
by BMWTurboDzl. 07/16/19 08:10 PM
Goodyear Wrangler DuraTrac
by NHRATA. 07/16/19 08:05 PM
5 qt Castrol GTX Magnatec 5w-30 $10.30 on Amazon
by gallydif. 07/16/19 07:59 PM
My new rig - 1987 Ford Econoline 27' Glendale RV
by caprice_2nv. 07/16/19 07:44 PM
Air Compressor OCI?
by Vern_in_IL. 07/16/19 07:35 PM
Looking for an SUV
by dgunay. 07/16/19 07:29 PM
Castrol GTX Magnatec 5w30
by Envoyguy. 07/16/19 07:21 PM
2019 Subaru Dual X-Mode
by buster. 07/16/19 06:36 PM
Wear Metal Max?
by tsm750. 07/16/19 05:54 PM
Harbor Freight 25% off Thurs - Sunday
by JC1. 07/16/19 05:52 PM
80% Furnace exhaust silencer?
by PandaBear. 07/16/19 05:10 PM
Pennzoil Ultra on Sale
by Nyati. 07/16/19 04:39 PM
Not All Mid-Grade Blended At the Pump
by RayCJ. 07/16/19 04:30 PM
Newest Members
MBhuntington, captainfloss, Lyndol, Belczek, Bronco628
68681 Registered Users
Who's Online Now
23 registered members (chrisri, Danimal1q2w3, Bailes1992, ctechbob, alcyon, 4 invisible), 635 guests, and 23 spiders.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Forum Statistics
Forums67
Topics291,972
Posts5,014,293
Members68,681
Most Online2,967
Mar 10th, 2019
Donate to BITOG
Hop To
LM-100J (C-130) Airshow #4817573
07/18/18 07:47 PM
07/18/18 07:47 PM
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 9,446
Central Coast, Calif.
tom slick Offline OP
tom slick  Offline OP

Joined: May 2003
Posts: 9,446
Central Coast, Calif.
Havenít seen it loop until now!



You get what you pay for...
So keep in mind how much you paid for this advice.
Re: LM-100J (C-130) Airshow [Re: tom slick] #4817639
07/18/18 08:59 PM
07/18/18 08:59 PM
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 8,301
Marshfield , MA
andyd Offline
andyd  Offline

Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 8,301
Marshfield , MA
Why would you wanna loop a huge cargo plane? Majorly impressed with short take off


'16 Camry LE STP synth 0w20 and STP filter. the Fridge

1994 Ranger ,the Rat, 5w30 dino, STP filter

'16 Camry SE, Valvoline HM 0w20 and OEM filter
Thick oil is better grin2
Re: LM-100J (C-130) Airshow [Re: tom slick] #4817731
07/18/18 11:26 PM
07/18/18 11:26 PM
Joined: Sep 2015
Posts: 6,205
Kalifornia Kollective
BrocLuno Offline
BrocLuno  Offline

Joined: Sep 2015
Posts: 6,205
Kalifornia Kollective
Cause you can laugh


Formerly in marine engineering. In an earlier life I owned my own petroleum tank truck, and hauled for the majors and independent's.
Re: LM-100J (C-130) Airshow [Re: tom slick] #4817769
07/19/18 01:50 AM
07/19/18 01:50 AM
Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 9,839
Virginia Beach
Astro14 Offline
Astro14  Offline

Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 9,839
Virginia Beach
Actually, the short landing was very impressive, too.


32 Packard 15W40
01 Volvo V70 T5 0W30 AMSOIL SS
02 Volvo V70 T5 0W30 Edge
02 Volvo V70 XC 0W40 Edge
05 MB S600 0W40 M1
16 Tundra 1794 5W30 Pennzoil Ultra
Re: LM-100J (C-130) Airshow [Re: tom slick] #4817770
07/19/18 01:54 AM
07/19/18 01:54 AM
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 43,177
'Stralia
Shannow Offline
Shannow  Offline

Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 43,177
'Stralia
Nice

Re: LM-100J (C-130) Airshow [Re: tom slick] #4817802
07/19/18 05:07 AM
07/19/18 05:07 AM
Joined: Sep 2013
Posts: 11,108
Indiana
dlundblad Offline
dlundblad  Offline

Joined: Sep 2013
Posts: 11,108
Indiana
Don't these have to be a bit light on their feet for aircraft carriers?


03 Jeep WJ 4.0 202k Edge 10w40 HM Fram XG16
02 Volvo S60 2.4T 186k M1 0w40 Mahle OX149D
97 Chevy Blazer 4.3 158k M1 EP 10w30 Supertech ST3980 (Ecore)

Re: LM-100J (C-130) Airshow [Re: dlundblad] #4817961
07/19/18 09:11 AM
07/19/18 09:11 AM
Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 9,839
Virginia Beach
Astro14 Offline
Astro14  Offline

Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 9,839
Virginia Beach
Originally Posted By: dlundblad
Don't these have to be a bit light on their feet for aircraft carriers?


Are you teasing me with this post?

I was expecting an emoji... that would help me understand.

The C-130 on the carrier was a stunt, a proof of concept, done only once to see if it could be done.

It can. But it has no military utility. Take 40+ warplanes out of an operating area in order to get an empty cargo plane into the operating area (and the demo was done with an empty Herc). It's a very risky operation, much more so than normal fixed wing ops because of the Herc's size, and lack of arresting gear.

A risky operation that takes warplanes out, and adds...a cargo plane with no cargo?

This C-130 on a carrier isn't the Doolittle raid...it's a stunt...

That said, you guys should know I love the Herc. Incredible short field performance (takeoff and landing). Good capacity. Reliable. Durable. Versatile.

Flew in one up to Baghdad a few years ago, in fact.

And this was a cool video (though I don't think it's a true loop, hard to judge from the camera angle, but it didn't get to 90 nose up or nose down, more like a barrel roll, which keeps the the G down to the airplane's limits.).

But let's be honest - it's still a cargo plane, and a slow one at that, optimized for intra-theater* operations.

*Cargo guys talk about inter-theater (long range, into and out of the theater) and intra-theater.

Inter-theater takes big lift at high speed for the long range transit. You need big lift numbers for the long range ops, or you just don't move enough stuff to make air transport worthwhile. The C-5 is an excellent example of that. Big, fast, long-range carries a lot.

Intra-theater takes moderate lift, with lots of unimproved runways, to have flexibility to get troops, gear, and supplies just where the need to be. You must make use of lousy facilities. High-frequency, short-range ops. Slow speed isn't as big a deal in that scenario, but short runway ops are a big deal.

The A-400M and the C-17* tried to be both: inter and intra. But they ended up not doing as well as the Herc intra and they can't carry the weight the C-5 can (though in-flight refueling changes that). The USAF is operating, and upgraded, a set of 40+ year old heavy lifters in the C-5B and C-5M to keep the capacity inter-theater. The 747 cargo is a great inter-theater platform, and there was a lot of contracted commercial heavy lift used in our recent conflicts.

*The C-17 was built, as was the C-5, with landing gear designed to operate on soft/unimproved surfaces. The C-17 in particular, has good short-field performance, but you're not going to put your $300 million+ cargo plane in a place where it can get shot at...so, while the capability is there, the mission is flown by the Herc...

Last edited by Astro14; 07/19/18 09:38 AM.

32 Packard 15W40
01 Volvo V70 T5 0W30 AMSOIL SS
02 Volvo V70 T5 0W30 Edge
02 Volvo V70 XC 0W40 Edge
05 MB S600 0W40 M1
16 Tundra 1794 5W30 Pennzoil Ultra
Re: LM-100J (C-130) Airshow [Re: tom slick] #4818031
07/19/18 11:09 AM
07/19/18 11:09 AM
Joined: May 2013
Posts: 2,169
Saskatchewan, Canada
Johnny2Bad Offline
Johnny2Bad  Offline

Joined: May 2013
Posts: 2,169
Saskatchewan, Canada
Cargo-capable aircraft, by their very nature, are "sports cars" when empty. All that hauling horesepower goes to just flying. If the aircraft was not meant to haul a load, no aircraft manufacturer would put those engines on it.

But you can have a lot of fun on an unloaded cargo plane, especially if combined with a light fuel load. Just keep the loads under the area where the wings break up.

Helicopters, which are incapable of inverted flight, can also do rolls under some circumstances.

Anything even remotely close to that kind of flying heavy will crash the airplane.

I had a good friend die because when flying a DC-3 cargo in winter, they made a go-around as visibility was poor, and due to just the unusual flight load during the go-around the cargo shifted, changed the COG, ( some cargo moved to the tail) and it fell into an uncontrollable dive. Killed both pilots.

As usual, pilot error is the fault, as the pilots are ultimately responsible for securing the load. Of course on heavy lift military there's a loadmaster, but that's just how they roll.

You learn a great deal about loading when you are around aircraft. Some of it is applicable to road vehicles.

Q: How many pounds overweight before the airplane could take off but then crash?

A: One.

Aircraft are overloaded all the time, especially in remote areas. Pilots know their aircraft and what it can take.

Nobody from the usual licensing and regulatory bodies are around when they land back at base to check for the required extra fuel ... they prefer nice airports and nice hotels ... except on the odd foray, and the radio chatter warns everybody for hundreds of miles in any case if they are going around (in Canada, civil aviation, Cessena's and the like, it's illegal to land with less than 45 minutes fuel onboard), so they can also adjust by flying fuel light.

If they didn't there would be a lot more aviation accidents. But a limit, whether learned or read from the operations manual, is a limit. Full stop.


'57 FL Straight 50 wt
'90 Miata 1.8L w/Rotrex Supercharger [Mobil1 0W-40]
'96 Ram 1500 [3.7L Mobil1 0W-20 / 1L 15W-50]
'01 PT Cruiser [Mobil1 0W-40]
Re: LM-100J (C-130) Airshow [Re: tom slick] #4818060
07/19/18 11:41 AM
07/19/18 11:41 AM
Joined: May 2013
Posts: 2,169
Saskatchewan, Canada
Johnny2Bad Offline
Johnny2Bad  Offline

Joined: May 2013
Posts: 2,169
Saskatchewan, Canada
I've seen pilots hide in outhouses when "regular" facilities were available, for hours, doing log books while MOT was local, checking for violations.


'57 FL Straight 50 wt
'90 Miata 1.8L w/Rotrex Supercharger [Mobil1 0W-40]
'96 Ram 1500 [3.7L Mobil1 0W-20 / 1L 15W-50]
'01 PT Cruiser [Mobil1 0W-40]
Re: LM-100J (C-130) Airshow [Re: tom slick] #4818294
07/19/18 05:55 PM
07/19/18 05:55 PM
Joined: Dec 2011
Posts: 955
Ca USA
BusyLittleShop Offline
BusyLittleShop  Offline

Joined: Dec 2011
Posts: 955
Ca USA
Impressive but technically speaking not a true loop... not even a Barn
Stormers loop... however if Tex Johnson were still alive he would have
not only looped the L100 but also spun and barrel rolled the whole
mess... Tex Johnson and Bob Hoover were what we call a pilots pilot
because they were highly skilled at managing an aircraft energy
without going negative G... they were both the most sought after
engineering and development test pilots in our history not to mention
they bolt died of natural causes...

Tex demonstrates in a Ford Trimotor the best America had in 1929...


In another demonstration of his performance capabilities, Tex
performed two barrel rolls at the hydroplane Gold Cup race. The
maneuver not only impressed perspective buyers, but also startled an
unexpecting Boeing president, Bill Allen.







Last edited by BusyLittleShop; 07/19/18 06:00 PM.

Larry L
Have a Wheelie NICE day
94 RC45 #2 58,000 on 30 weights Currently Mobil 1 5W30
2002 Camaro Mobil 1 0W30
1952 De Havilland Chipmunk



Re: LM-100J (C-130) Airshow [Re: Johnny2Bad] #4818481
07/20/18 05:45 AM
07/20/18 05:45 AM
Joined: Mar 2015
Posts: 6,033
Glendale, Arizona
billt460 Offline
billt460  Offline

Joined: Mar 2015
Posts: 6,033
Glendale, Arizona
Originally Posted By: Johnny2Bad
I had a good friend die because when flying a DC-3 cargo in winter, they made a go-around as visibility was poor, and due to just the unusual flight load during the go-around the cargo shifted, changed the COG, ( some cargo moved to the tail) and it fell into an uncontrollable dive. Killed both pilots.


Same thing caused this.


Re: LM-100J (C-130) Airshow [Re: tom slick] #4818649
07/20/18 10:24 AM
07/20/18 10:24 AM
Joined: Sep 2013
Posts: 11,108
Indiana
dlundblad Offline
dlundblad  Offline

Joined: Sep 2013
Posts: 11,108
Indiana
Originally Posted By: Astro14
Originally Posted By: dlundblad
Don't these have to be a bit light on their feet for aircraft carriers?


Are you teasing me with this post?

I was expecting an emoji... that would help me understand.

The C-130 on the carrier was a stunt, a proof of concept, done only once to see if it could be done.

It can. But it has no military utility. Take 40+ warplanes out of an operating area in order to get an empty cargo plane into the operating area (and the demo was done with an empty Herc). It's a very risky operation, much more so than normal fixed wing ops because of the Herc's size, and lack of arresting gear.

A risky operation that takes warplanes out, and adds...a cargo plane with no cargo?

This C-130 on a carrier isn't the Doolittle raid...it's a stunt...

That said, you guys should know I love the Herc. Incredible short field performance (takeoff and landing). Good capacity. Reliable. Durable. Versatile.

Flew in one up to Baghdad a few years ago, in fact.

And this was a cool video (though I don't think it's a true loop, hard to judge from the camera angle, but it didn't get to 90 nose up or nose down, more like a barrel roll, which keeps the the G down to the airplane's limits.).

But let's be honest - it's still a cargo plane, and a slow one at that, optimized for intra-theater* operations.

*Cargo guys talk about inter-theater (long range, into and out of the theater) and intra-theater.

Inter-theater takes big lift at high speed for the long range transit. You need big lift numbers for the long range ops, or you just don't move enough stuff to make air transport worthwhile. The C-5 is an excellent example of that. Big, fast, long-range carries a lot.

Intra-theater takes moderate lift, with lots of unimproved runways, to have flexibility to get troops, gear, and supplies just where the need to be. You must make use of lousy facilities. High-frequency, short-range ops. Slow speed isn't as big a deal in that scenario, but short runway ops are a big deal.

The A-400M and the C-17* tried to be both: inter and intra. But they ended up not doing as well as the Herc intra and they can't carry the weight the C-5 can (though in-flight refueling changes that). The USAF is operating, and upgraded, a set of 40+ year old heavy lifters in the C-5B and C-5M to keep the capacity inter-theater. The 747 cargo is a great inter-theater platform, and there was a lot of contracted commercial heavy lift used in our recent conflicts.

*The C-17 was built, as was the C-5, with landing gear designed to operate on soft/unimproved surfaces. The C-17 in particular, has good short-field performance, but you're not going to put your $300 million+ cargo plane in a place where it can get shot at...so, while the capability is there, the mission is flown by the Herc...


I genuinely thought they did hence why I wasn't surprised by how fast they were.

Thanks for the enlightening response.


03 Jeep WJ 4.0 202k Edge 10w40 HM Fram XG16
02 Volvo S60 2.4T 186k M1 0w40 Mahle OX149D
97 Chevy Blazer 4.3 158k M1 EP 10w30 Supertech ST3980 (Ecore)

Previous Thread
Index
Next Thread

BOB IS THE OIL GUY® Powered by UBB.threads™