Article on the use of thin oils and why....

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Hard to believe anything that comes from an Amsoil dealer. They aren't experts on oil!
 
I can agree with the point made about using thin oils for 90% of the econo-boxes on the road. The Yaris or Versa that never sees above 60mph or 2000rpm is just fine on a 0W20 but I would never put anything thin in something that is high output per liter like a turbocharged Subaru or Ford Eco-Boost. And I certainly would never go thin in a half ton pickup that works for a living! 20WT oils have their place I guess, but if you actually DRIVE and use your vehicles it isn't optimum for most.
 
Originally Posted By: racin4ds
I can agree with the point made about using thin oils for 90% of the econo-boxes on the road. The Yaris or Versa that never sees above 60mph or 2000rpm is just fine on a 0W20 but I would never put anything thin in something that is high output per liter like a turbocharged Subaru or Ford Eco-Boost. And I certainly would never go thin in a half ton pickup that works for a living! 20WT oils have their place I guess, but if you actually DRIVE and use your vehicles it isn't optimum for most.

How about Indy Cars?
(Castrol Edge Supercar 0W-20 HP)

Or the Aston Martin DB11, which is tested to be able to run hard in Dubai heat?
(Castrol Edge Supercar A 0W-20)
 
Originally Posted By: racin4ds
The Yaris or Versa that never sees above 60mph or 2000rpm is just fine on a 0W20



Not really. Smaller displacement low horsepower engines see plenty of time above 2000 rpm. If not, you would be seriously lugging the engine if you didn't have sufficient rpm's to account for the rev drop and lack of torque. To illustrate, I've added the auto version of my Yaris to my speed/rpm chart. As you can see if the auto changed from 1st to second @2000 rpm it would be well below 1500 rpm. My guess would be a minimum of 2700 rpm shift point for all but the most sedate acceleration.

The Yaris HB still recommends 5W30 motor oil. The higher revving engine and lack of rollers I'm sure is part of the reasoning.

 
Originally Posted By: d00df00d
Originally Posted By: racin4ds
I can agree with the point made about using thin oils for 90% of the econo-boxes on the road. The Yaris or Versa that never sees above 60mph or 2000rpm is just fine on a 0W20 but I would never put anything thin in something that is high output per liter like a turbocharged Subaru or Ford Eco-Boost. And I certainly would never go thin in a half ton pickup that works for a living! 20WT oils have their place I guess, but if you actually DRIVE and use your vehicles it isn't optimum for most.

How about Indy Cars?
(Castrol Edge Supercar 0W-20 HP)

Or the Aston Martin DB11, which is tested to be able to run hard in Dubai heat?
(Castrol Edge Supercar A 0W-20)


Keep the oil temperature down to maintain a safe oil film (MOFT) and you could probably run xW-20 in about any vehicle. Indy cars have crazy oil coolers, and so do most super cars to control oil temperature.
 
I take it that nobody on bitog will purchase a new 2019 Silverado 1500 with the new Duramax diesel in it then since it calls for a 0w-20. Well at least while it is still under warranty.
lol.gif
 
Originally Posted By: ZeeOSix
Originally Posted By: d00df00d
Originally Posted By: racin4ds
I can agree with the point made about using thin oils for 90% of the econo-boxes on the road. The Yaris or Versa that never sees above 60mph or 2000rpm is just fine on a 0W20 but I would never put anything thin in something that is high output per liter like a turbocharged Subaru or Ford Eco-Boost. And I certainly would never go thin in a half ton pickup that works for a living! 20WT oils have their place I guess, but if you actually DRIVE and use your vehicles it isn't optimum for most.

How about Indy Cars?
(Castrol Edge Supercar 0W-20 HP)

Or the Aston Martin DB11, which is tested to be able to run hard in Dubai heat?
(Castrol Edge Supercar A 0W-20)


Keep the oil temperature down to maintain a safe oil film (MOFT) and you could probably run xW-20 in about any vehicle. Indy cars have crazy oil coolers, and so do most super cars to control oil temperature.

I mean, that's kind of the point, isn't it? It's not about a grade being categorically suitable for one type of application or another. It's about a match among the viscosity, the MOFT, the oil temp, and a bunch of other things.
 
"I think it's safe to say that your application and usage in many cases is more important than the actual oil used. That might be especially true for cars that are spec'd for thinner viscosity oil...but that's what makes this "thick vs. thin" thing on here a permanent argument because it means 112 different things to 175 different people. This board tries to continually shoehorn it into a blanket statement with almost daily fishing expeditions that might apply, might not apply, or might conditionally apply to your circumstance."

Well, yes.... BUT.... let's think about our target market on this forum. Is it each other or the world? If we're targeting each other, chances are members of this board are going to be able to ensure ample lubrication for their use case.

A message to the world is where the shoehorning efforts can be valuable. The standard "down a grade is risky, up a grade or two is typically ok" is one of those shoehorns, albeit older. So a more modern one could go like this: Use a full synthetic 0w30 or 0w40 and change based on your manual's specified interval.

w20 oils did arrive curiously out of the blue and there seems to be a link to CAFE requirements which is worth arguing. Is a 0w20 fine for an economy commuter car, 99.99% yes. However a 0w30 will protect better over the life of the engine and specifically during extreme situations [idling in traffic jams @100 degrees, frequent short trips in 10 degree winters, your 16 y.o. son Tommy who thinks the accelerator is an on/off switch, etc].

Often, it's wise to err on the side of being overly protective since the engineers don't think of everything, or aren't listened to, or CAFE. I liken it to the bullet size discussion around stopping power. Many argue that a 9mm isn't as adequate as a .45 or .357mag. I respect engineering tolerances and similarly I respect real world variables.
 
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Originally Posted By: Rat407
I take it that nobody on bitog will purchase a new 2019 Silverado 1500 with the new Duramax diesel in it then since it calls for a 0w-20. Well at least while it is still under warranty.
lol.gif



I wonder if they'll change that spec as the miles start piling up in real world use.
36.gif


I do like the idea of an inline 6 diesel.
 
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I think the point of thicker oil generally beeing better for heavy duty use is correct.

I come from Germany and cars are driven differently here than in the US. Most cars have smaller displacement or horsepower than correlating US models. Its kinda fascinating for me to see that models like the Mercedes E350 are perfectly normal to see on the road there, here you nearly only see Mercedes E200/E220 or similar cars.
I’d say normal horsepower figures are:

- econobox: 80hp
- sedan: 120 hp
- van: 130 hp

A 2.0 liter engine is considered big here nowadays...

Yet, those cars are driven kinda hard on the Autobahn with free traffic flowing at maybe 80-90mph, often some people drive 110mph or faster.
On the other hand, many distances lay closer to each other amd people commuting just 2 miles per day to work is no rarity. .
I think this is probably the reason why 10W-40 is still considered the standard here by most mechanics. When I found out about those 20 weight oils I was extremely shocked at first.
laugh.gif

Basically here the rule goes like: If your car is newer use 0W- or 5W-40.... If its older and has some miles on it use 10W-40. If its old and worn and starts consuming bigger amounts of oil use 15W-40...

I find those differences in oil viscosity highly interesting.
 
Being from Europe myself I understand the old world sensibilities. Considerations such as narrow roads, spoke vs grid city layouts, parking space, manual gearboxes, carriageway speeds, handling over horsepower, and of course, fuel prices are strong influences in having smaller vehicles. For the masses here in N.A. a prevalent mind-set is bigger is better. Canada used to lean more to the European model, as evidenced by historically more small vehicles sold here than the States, but that paradigm has shifted too. Talk about a CAFÉ paradox.

With 8+ slush boxes, direct injection and strict speed limits the rev range of Joe Shmoe’s daily driver is more contained than ever before. Hence, xw-20 motor oils are probably OK for most of us. Is it better than a little heavier oil like a SN-GF5 10W-30? That’s up to debate, but for me, I’m yet to be sold.
 
I also don’t see as much of a problem of using xw-20 in your bigger engines, they are such relatively low-stressed motors...
In comparision: newer VW gasoline engines produce 250hp+ from a 2.0 liter gasoline engine. That in itself to me is conplete nonsense that’s just prone to break after the warranty expires... Those cars are also mandated to take 0w-20 oil, because the manufacturers need 0w-20 in order to pass the newest emissions tests. Then imagine those cars beeing hammered down the highway with 100mph+...
 
Originally Posted By: Rat407
I take it that nobody on bitog will purchase a new 2019 Silverado 1500 with the new Duramax diesel in it then since it calls for a 0w-20. Well at least while it is still under warranty.
lol.gif



clean sheet design ?
 
Simply attaining high miles isn't really relevant as a metric unless we know how it leaks down.

I could be tight and still fresh, or a gross polluter and all clapped out.

Lots of the latter on the road and few of the former.

UD
 
I’d say that age is actually harder on seals than miles are. Nearly every motor oil contains additives to keep the seals soft and flexible. Some more, some less.
The problem is that if the car stands for days, weeks or months without oil reaching those spots to care the seals, they can start to dry up and get cracked.
Nonetheless working fine is also about engine wear and not only the seals. A new seal costs 10$, a new engine slightly more.

Nice to know that some of the thinner oils can be up for the task.
 
Originally Posted By: Mitsu_Joe
I come from Germany and cars are driven differently here than in the US. Most cars have smaller displacement or horsepower than correlating US models.

So you are in Germany and you drive a 1988 Mitsubishi Galant? And you use Maxlife oil?
 
Originally Posted By: kschachn
Originally Posted By: Mitsu_Joe
I come from Germany and cars are driven differently here than in the US. Most cars have smaller displacement or horsepower than correlating US models.

So you are in Germany and you drive a 1988 Mitsubishi Galant? And you use Maxlife oil?




I thought the name Galant was a US specific name? That’s a old Mitsu. Where was it manufactured?
 
It was manufactured in Japan and looks like that:





Powered by a carbureted 8V OHV gasoline engine designed in the late 60s that pushes out enormous 86 horses.



Its not comparable to the newer models, its hands down the best car I ever owned. Slow as [censored], but built like a tank.
Even after 30 years it has no rust, no rattles and doesnt shake when I drive over cobblestone. Cruising at 75 mph I get around 36mpg, is very comfortable and it never let me down.



This car btw in 1987 was available with a fully adjustable electronic suspension with ride height control, heated mirrors and it was the first car model to ever have 4 wheel steering and 4 wheel drive the same time for the sportier trims.

The Valvoline MaxLife is the best oil I can find for the money here, I dont wanna put something thin like a 0w-40 in my car, it doesn’t seem to like that... The german taxis run that Valvoline oil because it’s relatively cheap but seems to offer very good protection, most of them do like 450000 miles and more.

And finally, as to why I am writing in an american forum... I had a fascination for america and your muscle cars, since I rode in a 1950s Cadillac Eldorado that a friend of my father owns and I am signed up in various german car forums since years so I thought “why not give it a try?” and signed up here. I already learnt many interesting things about your guys cars and I am keen on learning more...
smile.gif
 
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