New/Old F1 guy?

[Camprunner]

So I often watched Formula 1 back in the 1980's - the early 1990's but I have really lost touch with the sport. The other day I was in a bar restaurant and on the TV there was some F1 race on and all the cars sounded like electric motors! They all had that (whine to them) are they all hybrid cars now?

Frankly I miss the days of the 1980's 1,000 HP turbo cars or the screaming V12's and V10's or the 90's

 

[Garak]

They have as much power and are using significantly less fuel these days, and the components last much longer. Sure, the sound isn't what a lot of people would like to be hearing, but the sport has certainly evolved. And yes, they're all hybrids.

 

[IndyIan]

I like that the new cars don't have traction control, and they do have a drivetrain that is probably the fastest ever in F1 over a race distance, but they do sound a little tame on TV.

 

[E150GT]

No more Senna

 

[BikeWhisperer]

The scream of the V10's turning 20k RPM was insane (both on TV and especially in person) and lead to some epic exploding engines in the late 90's to early 2000's

Today's hybrid engines are pushing 1000hp but don't often turn over 12k RPM (even though they are allowed to go to 15k) due to fuel consumption and reliability. They have only 3 engines to last 20 races without penalty. So yes they don't sound as good though I haven't noticed any electrical whine...perhaps you were watching Formula E in that bar.

 

[555]

Are we sure you weren't watching Formula E?
Formula 1 still sounds like internal combustion engines.

 

[bdcardinal]

Originally Posted By: 555
Are we sure you weren't watching Formula E?
Formula 1 still sounds like internal combustion engines.


That was my first thought. The Formula E cars can look like an F1 car, but they are all electric. Actually a pretty cool series if you think about what they are able to do.

 

[Gixxer46]

I went to see f1 when Schumacher was still racing. Hearing those V10s and V8s rev gave me goosebumps. I could feel it in my blood somehow? These new ones have power steering, and yes the tech makes them more powerful while using less fuel but it’s just not the same. I’m a young guy and when I watch the older stuff with Senna, Mansell, Prost it’s incredible to watch. I’ve shifted to motorcycle racing specifically WSBK and am excited for moto America. There’s a lot more talent needed to make a bike go fast vs a car.

The rules limiting driver aids is great, putting more reliance on the driver.

Does formula e still use two cars to finish a race? Lol, that’s incredible and cost effective.

 

[d00df00d]

Originally Posted By: Camprunner
So I often watched Formula 1 back in the 1980's - the early 1990's but I have really lost touch with the sport. The other day I was in a bar restaurant and on the TV there was some F1 race on and all the cars sounded like electric motors! They all had that (whine to them) are they all hybrid cars now?

Frankly I miss the days of the 1980's 1,000 HP turbo cars or the screaming V12's and V10's or the 90's

They are turbocharged 1.6L V6s with some very sophisticated hybrid setups.

They sound terrible IMO.

 

[d00df00d]

Originally Posted By: Gixxer46
There’s a lot more talent needed to make a bike go fast vs a car.

Not sure about that. F1 drivers will pull 3-4 G in a corner and 5-6 G under braking. You're pressed into the straps so hard that a human being literally doesn't have the upper body strength to breathe, you're going so fast that events are constantly happening faster than the absolute physical minimum processing times of a human nervous system, and you have to nail your braking points and racing lines every time... Not a lot of human pursuits are that difficult.

 

[billt460]

Fuel economy, along with trying to increase engine life has no place in ANY motor racing..... Except to curtail it. And before anyone comes back with the whole, "They're going faster than ever" song and dance. Try to imagine how much faster they would be going if they didn't have to concern themselves with fuel mileage and engine life. The words "cheap" or "cheaper" are a total oxymoron in Formula 1 racing.

 

[Shannow]

The whole premise of motorsport was that "motorsport improves the breed"....supposed to be the cutting edge of technology, that will work it's way down to cars that mortals eventually own.

DOHC, pentroof chambers 4 valves per cylinder was novel and cutting edge in 1918...now even a Camry has it.

Small displacement high boost turbo was cutting edge in the '80s, now it's common.

If cost is no object, then it makes sense to give some control of the direction that the technology is headed...again, to "improve the breed".

If all you are after is outright speed and acceleration, why not just shoot them out the barrel of a cannon at a hairpin corner with concrete walls, a treeline, or 1,000 foot drop if you run off ?

That's apparently your sport of choice.

 

[billt460]

Originally Posted By: Shannow
If all you are after is outright speed and acceleration, why not just shoot them out the barrel of a cannon at a hairpin corner with concrete walls, a treeline, or 1,000 foot drop if you run off ? That's apparently your sport of choice.


And yours is as always, talking like a fool.

 

[Shannow]

Originally Posted By: Camprunner
Frankly I miss the days of the 1980's 1,000 HP turbo cars or the screaming V12's and V10's or the 90's


Here...

https://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ub...to_#Post4741978

One I scanned from my library.

 

[billt460]

Every time these threads start, there are always several posts from race fans here, that talk about how much better the older cars sounded, looked, and performed. Along with how much more exciting it was to watch when the racing strategy involved refueling, along with a lot of what has now been taken from the sport. All with some half baked idea of "improving" it by, "advancing technology".

NASCAR is dying because they are not giving the fans what attracted them to the sport in the first place. This silly stage racing, along with restrictor plates, small block dry sump engines, ridiculous oversized spoilers, and cars that have no resemblence of anything currently being produced by todays manufacturers, have all but ruined what used to be a fantastic sport. Now it's like watching a taxi cab race on life support.

Formula 1 isn't much better, if not worse. It has lost a full 1/3rd of it's audience since 2008. Over 200,000,000 (read 200 MILLION). When they actually sounded like race cars. And performed at the same levels they do now, a full decade later. That's not "improvement", but rather a good cure for insomnia.

https://www.racefans.net/2016/04/20/f1-has-lost-one-third-of-its-tv-audience-since-2008/

The fact is the fans have spoken. And most of them don't like what they're seeing. So they are responding by not watching it. Fans loved V-10 and V-12 Formula 1 engines, because they were exciting to watch and listen to. And while they may like V-6's in cars that also run on batteries when they drive to work in city traffic, they don't want to watch them drive around a race track for an hour and a half, playing follow the leader.

NASCAR was born out of production automobiles that people could actually purchase and relate to. Not tubular framed, composite covered abortions, that are lapping slower than they were 45 years ago at the same tracks.

These venues are drying up because the people in the stands, much like a lot of them here, don't like what they're seeing. And the reason they don't like it isn't because of the weather, social media, or the cost of tickets and motel rooms near the track. They don't like it because it is boring. And that is not the way to advance a sport. But rather an all but sure way to kill it.

 

[d00df00d]

Originally Posted By: billt460
Fuel economy, along with trying to increase engine life has no place in ANY motor racing.....

...except in endurance races, and to level the field for less well resourced competitors so there can be more than 4 cars on the grid, and to provide some measure of relevance to real cars so companies have even more of a reason to participate.


Originally Posted By: billt460
And before anyone comes back with the whole, "They're going faster than ever" song and dance. Try to imagine how much faster they would be going if they didn't have to concern themselves with fuel mileage and engine life.

Less than you might think. The human body and mind can only cope with so much.

 

[Shannow]

So Billt460..are you advocating that stock cars are production cars (Win on Sunday, Sell on Monday..."Racing improves the breed"), all the old adages....or that racing is unbudgeted sky is the limit ?

And throw the drivers at a few deathtraps, because that makes it more exciting to watch from the couch.

 

[billt460]

It is not a question of, "improving the breed". Or whatever you are harping about. It's about getting people to actually WATCH. Because as it stands now, they're not. They are running away from both Formula 1 and NASCAR faster than the cars are going.

 

[Shannow]

Originally Posted By: billt460
It is not a question of, "improving the breed". Or whatever you are harping about. It's about getting people to actually WATCH. Because as it stands now, they're not. They are running away from both Formula 1 and NASCAR faster than the cars are going.


and you think that making them faster and more dangerous to the driver (Cannon at the corner, and the best driver survives), while titillating you in your Zimmer frame will drag the crowds back ?

How many more people would watch if they abandoned crash helmets ?

By your estimation ?

 

[Shannow]

Billt460.

Racing cars has ZERO value in the current economy except for advertising products like soda, beer, and washing aids now that tobacco and booze has been banned.

They aren't there to enable you to watch your hero risk his life and crash into a barrier, tree, or run off a 1,000 foot cliff, they are there to market a product.

And if cars are plastered in decals for Tide, or Mountain Dew, they are serving their purpose.

The free market has decided that the reward in terms of brand recognition for a "failing" (your words) series outweighs the withering attendance.