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Do you run a bypass filter system? Why? #4813390
07/13/18 05:27 PM
07/13/18 05:27 PM
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 5,945
Michigan
ZZman Offline OP
ZZman  Offline OP
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 5,945
Michigan
If you do, what made u decide to do so? What results have u seen?

Last edited by ZZman; 07/13/18 05:27 PM.

2003 Mercury Grand Marquis. Rotella T6 Multi-Vehicle oil
2008 Sebring Hardtop convertible. Rotella T6 Multi-Vehicle oil
2006 Kawasaki Vulcan 900 LT. Amsoil Metric 10w-40
Re: Do you run a bypass filter system? Why? [Re: ZZman] #4813407
07/13/18 05:58 PM
07/13/18 05:58 PM
Joined: Apr 2018
Posts: 368
Somewhere in time
Imp4 Offline
Imp4  Offline
Joined: Apr 2018
Posts: 368
Somewhere in time
Fun. They do it for fun.
Then they tell you how critical it is.


2001 Mitsubishi Galant 2.4 - 157k+
Grandma's creampuff...
Re: Do you run a bypass filter system? Why? [Re: ZZman] #4813414
07/13/18 06:11 PM
07/13/18 06:11 PM
Joined: Dec 2011
Posts: 4,755
North Carolina
rooflessVW Offline
rooflessVW  Offline
Joined: Dec 2011
Posts: 4,755
North Carolina
Explain it like I'm 5.

What do bypass filters filter exactly? Is it just another filter in line with the main filter?


"Zed's dead baby, Zed's dead."
Re: Do you run a bypass filter system? Why? [Re: Imp4] #4813417
07/13/18 06:17 PM
07/13/18 06:17 PM
Joined: Mar 2012
Posts: 1,282
San Antonio, TX
E150GT Offline
E150GT  Offline
Joined: Mar 2012
Posts: 1,282
San Antonio, TX
Originally Posted By: Imp4
Fun. They do it for fun.
Then they tell you how critical it is.

True story. I want to install one on a vehicle. For fun.


1984 Mercedes-Benz 300SD - 100k
1995 F150 XL 4.9 reg cab 5MT - 251k 5w30
2016 Mazda6 Touring 6MT - 57k 10w30
2006 Buick Lucerne CXL 3.8 31k 5w30
Re: Do you run a bypass filter system? Why? [Re: ZZman] #4813419
07/13/18 06:21 PM
07/13/18 06:21 PM
Joined: Jun 2016
Posts: 50
Planet Earth
Jonzobot Offline
Jonzobot  Offline
Joined: Jun 2016
Posts: 50
Planet Earth
I have one on my '99 Tercel.

The only reason is so that I can say, "Oh, it's time to change the toilet paper". It makes a good conversation piece.

Really I am quite sure it does absolutely nothing for longevity.

That said, I am at 330,000km and counting. smile

Re: Do you run a bypass filter system? Why? [Re: rooflessVW] #4813439
07/13/18 06:53 PM
07/13/18 06:53 PM
Joined: Jul 2010
Posts: 18,737
PNW
ZeeOSix Offline
ZeeOSix  Offline
Joined: Jul 2010
Posts: 18,737
PNW
Originally Posted By: rooflessVW
Explain it like I'm 5.

What do bypass filters filter exactly? Is it just another filter in line with the main filter?


It's a very high efficiency filter in parallel. There's a separate forum all about bypass filter systems.

Re: Do you run a bypass filter system? Why? [Re: ZZman] #4813527
07/13/18 09:11 PM
07/13/18 09:11 PM
Joined: Oct 2014
Posts: 11,857
Idaho
CT8 Offline
CT8  Offline
Joined: Oct 2014
Posts: 11,857
Idaho
In the late 1980s My friend was an Amsoil Dealer so got one for free I put it on my 1988 Camry and ran the set up for 10 years. It really was as I thought it to be a waste . Once lead was removed from gas The oil is much cleaner.


2015 Ford F150 2.7
2018 Ford F350 6.2
Re: Do you run a bypass filter system? Why? [Re: Jonzobot] #4813529
07/13/18 09:13 PM
07/13/18 09:13 PM
Joined: Oct 2014
Posts: 11,857
Idaho
CT8 Offline
CT8  Offline
Joined: Oct 2014
Posts: 11,857
Idaho
Originally Posted By: Jonzobot
I have one on my '99 Tercel.

The only reason is so that I can say, "Oh, it's time to change the toilet paper". It makes a good conversation piece.

Really I am quite sure it does absolutely nothing for longevity.

That said, I am at 330,000km and counting. smile
I had an insurance adjuster come to my house and he drove a 7 year old Camry with 400,00 miles on the odometer with just maintenance and using what ever oil and filter the quick lube place had.


2015 Ford F150 2.7
2018 Ford F350 6.2
Re: Do you run a bypass filter system? Why? [Re: ZZman] #4813661
07/14/18 02:47 AM
07/14/18 02:47 AM
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 1,852
the antipodes
tdi-rick Offline
tdi-rick  Offline
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 1,852
the antipodes
The engine came fitted from the factory with it.

Mann-Hummel rotor (centrifugal) filter.


Land Rover.
Helping put oil back in the ground for 60 years.
You can't get any greener than that......
Re: Do you run a bypass filter system? Why? [Re: ZZman] #4813669
07/14/18 04:27 AM
07/14/18 04:27 AM
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 317
northern NY
Driz Offline
Driz  Offline
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 317
northern NY
I wouldnít want one but I guess some folks need an easier access to the filter. Here in the rustbelt itís pointless as any enginee will easily outlast the body

Re: Do you run a bypass filter system? Why? [Re: ZZman] #4813716
07/14/18 07:35 AM
07/14/18 07:35 AM
Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 20,758
Upstate NY
Donald Offline
Donald  Offline
Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 20,758
Upstate NY
Good on expensive diesel engines.


2015 Subaru Forester 2.5 engine/CVT
2015 Ford F250 w/Powerstroke
2016 Subaru Crosstrek CVT (wife's)
Re: Do you run a bypass filter system? Why? [Re: ZZman] #4815111
07/15/18 08:50 PM
07/15/18 08:50 PM
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 527
ohio
xtell Offline
xtell  Offline
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 527
ohio
I run Frantz Bypass filters on my gasoline engines and run Baldwin B50 filters in parallel with the oil lines on some of my automatic transmissions and power steering fluid lines. On some other power steering and transmission lines I run in-line automotive engine oil spin on oil filters on remote mount units. I feel smaller particles being filtered out of the oil via bypass or the inline filters, will result in fewer particles circulating in the oil which may cause damage to bearing surfaces. Some may agree and some may disagree, but that is what I feel they can do.

Re: Do you run a bypass filter system? Why? [Re: rooflessVW] #4815277
07/16/18 06:37 AM
07/16/18 06:37 AM
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 7,509
Indianapolis, IN
dnewton3 Offline
dnewton3  Offline
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 7,509
Indianapolis, IN
Originally Posted By: rooflessVW
Explain it like I'm 5.

What do bypass filters filter exactly? Is it just another filter in line with the main filter?


OK - here's a synopsis ... for a more simplistic explanation ...
First, most 5 year old kids won't be able to follow this, but hopefully you will.

- there are many types of contamination in lubricants. When we speak of internal combustion engines, there are four major sources
a) hydrocarbon byproducts (soot) and other insolubles
b) silicas
c) metals
d) soluble liquids (fuels, etc)

- As for soot, it starts out sub-micronic in size. It does NOT start out life at 10um or even 5um; it's sub-micron. Therefore there is no practical filter element that will catch it when it's "young". As it accumulates in a sump, it has the ability to agglomerate (co-join) with other soot particles. To counteract this, the oils have additives (dispersants) to keep this from happening.
- Silica comes primarily from air-intake. Varies in size. If it makes it past the air filter, it can do damage easily.
- Metals are typically shed from the engine; vary in size.
- Fuels completely mix with the lube; no ability to separate out a "fuel" from the lube in a traditional filter element as the filter cannot distinguish the difference.

Now we speak to filter efficiency ...
Read some more thorough SAE articles and studies, and a few BITOGers here can decently explain. Essentially, most all filters have pores of various sizes; the better filters have tighter and more consistent pores. Smaller holes catch ever finer stuff. We all get that. But we also need to acknowledge that "bypass filtration" is only a combination of two words, and unless we see Beta Data for the filter elements, it's kind of only getting 1/2 the story. For example, my 1987 diesel Escort had both a primary and BP filter element for the lube system. But the BP element (nominal at 10um) was the same rating as the FF filter (nominal at 10um). Neither element was more efficient. But, the BP side was "slowed" with a restriction orifice; this promotes slower flow which causes a slightly higher capture ratio. So the "Bypass" filter wasn't "better" because of the filter element itself, but because the flow was manipulated. In theory, a BP filter element can be absolute down to 3um, or 15um, depending upon it's design intent. We will, for this conversation, presume that a BP element is absolute at 3um or so ...

BP filtration works (as primarily seen in the market place we'd all recognize) in a parallel loop with the FF filter. Most any commercially available brand will be reasonably absolute around 2 or 3 um. Most of these systems "sample" the full-flow; typically about 10% of the total. So for any particle that is (example) 5um, whereas the FF filter will never catch the particle with any reasonable efficiency, the BP won't even see that particle 90% of the time. As an average, if the full sump flow only sends 10% of the flow to the BP loop, that means 90% of the time that 5um particle goes right through the FF element and right through your engine.

BP filters are great tools, but ONLY when you understand how they work and when their effect moves from secondary to predominant. Follow along ...
A fresh OCI will hopefully push out most contamination (admittedly not all, but a lot of it). That means when the OCI is young, there isn't much contamination present. If you have a decent air filter going, and a decent fuel system, you won't get much contamination in the way of these routes. So the other two routes left are shed metals and soot; sort of inter-related. If you don't have big soot, you'll not shed a lot of metals. So, when soot is small, in young OCIs, the OIL is what controls wear, not any filter element. Remember that soot starts out at sub-micro sizes, and therefore even a BP element cannot stop it. Essentially, a short-to-moderate duration OCI never has soot grow large enough to do any specific damage in large scale. Don't confuse "size" with "magnitude" (volume). There can be a LOT of soot in a system, but it can be small in size; that is until the anti-agglomerate additives becomes overwhelmed - typically as the OCIs mature in much longer duration. There are a bazillion UOAs that show soot loading, along with jet-black visual appearance, but wear is minimal; the soot is predominant in quantity, but small in size. It has not agglomerated in high quantity yet and therefore is too small to affect much.

FF filter elements are there to catch BIG stuff immediately. BP elements are there to catch small stuff over a LONG duration of exposure. But they cannot catch what is not yet large enough to be caught (it's Homer Simpson "Doh" obvious). The only time they catch soot is when it gets to be 2um or 3um in size, and in sufficient quantity to make an appreciable difference it quantity. (remember - 90% of the time a BP element isn't even "seeing" an opportunity to stop anything, because it only samples 10% of the total flow).

The primary advantage to BP filters is that (being our accepted beta of absolute at 3um), the soot is still smaller than what would typically cause damage. Generally, most sources agree that particulate in 5-15 um size range is most damaging. Because a BP can catch stuff at 3um with great efficiency, even though it only samples stuff 10% of the time, that's still small enough AND soon enough that it matters in effect. But ONLY IF (and this is the key to understanding this entire topic) the oil has been run long enough to see agglomeration of soot that large in the first place!

In short-to-moderate OCIs, you'll never see any wear-rate reductions using a BP filter in a typical engine. This is because, of the four primary contamination routes, a BP filter element has the following (lack of) effect:
a) soot too small to catch
b) silica generally stopped at the air filter
c) metals most often a result of other influence; not shed by themselves
d) traditional syn and/or cellulose elements cannot distinguish between lubes and fuels
IOW - a BP filter element generally has no effect in wear control in moderate OCIs. ONLY AFTER AN OCI BECOMES SUFFICIENTLY LONG would a BP element have a pronounced, discernible effect in reducing soot loading, AFTER the oil additives were compromised. This is why UOAs don't show BP systems having any tangible effect in most applications; folks don't run the lubes long enough to actually glean the ROI.
Some applications such as OTR and off-highway equipment, typically running much larger sumps and much longer OCIs, can easily get a benefit from BP filtration.

To the question of why someone would run BP filtration
As typical of the world we live in, the answer is "it depends ...."
Either it's a tool or a toy.

* If you're going to run much longer OCIs, and your sump capacity is large (representing a significant cost to exchange lubes), and it's far cheaper to UOA than OCI, then BP systems are a fantastic method to maximize your OCIs and therefore your ROI. It can assist in the control of wear over long periods of time; as the OCI matures the BP will keep soot at that desired small level by removing it from circulation.
* If you've got a small sump (less than 5 gallons), and are Hades-bent on OCIs in a "normal" sense (15k miles or less), BP filtration is a complete and total waste of your money because of the limitations of the system effect, and other influences it cannot control. It won't alter your wear rates in a meaningful manner at all.


Here is an example of which I speak; these values are estimated, but represent what happens in respect to soot loading.
NOTE: these are approximated values, not exact values.
As you see, short-to-moderate OCIs don't see appreciable size growth in soot until the oil becomes compromised.
The effect of BP comes AFTER most folks have already changed oil.
Wear isn't affected much until AFTER the soot loading becomes substantial in size (again, not quantity, but size)
(the escalating line on left represents soot size when ONLY FF is used)
(the muted line on right represents soot size when BP is added)
In short, this is no different that the effect (or lack thereof) concerning syn fluids. Syns don't typically exhibit an advantage until longer OCIs are employed. But most folks never run an OCI long enough for the disparity to show up.
The key to understanding the entire topic is this: you cannot have an advantage until one of the competitors is compromised.
When you change oil often enough, the OIL ADDITIVES are what controls wear, not filters.

PS - there is reasonable correlation between the soot-size loading, and wear rates .... I can show very similar charts with specific UOA wear data. Unfortunately, my data is limited because LONG OCIs are actually quite rare here at BITOG.



Last edited by dnewton3; 07/17/18 06:10 AM.

The act of preventative maintenance, in and of itself, is FAR MORE important than brand/grade/base choices among lubes and filters.
- under maintaining something is akin to abuse/neglect; that can kill equipment by shortening the lifespan
- over maintaining something has never been proven to be anything but a waste of time and money
Re: Do you run a bypass filter system? Why? [Re: ZZman] #4816959
07/18/18 03:57 AM
07/18/18 03:57 AM
Joined: Feb 2015
Posts: 712
Sask, Canada
BrianF Offline
BrianF  Offline
Joined: Feb 2015
Posts: 712
Sask, Canada
Very interesting, thanks for taking to the time to present this!


2006 Trailblazer LT. Castrol Edge with Fram Ultra.
2017 Ram 3500 SLT Megacab. Duron SHP 10w30 with Hastings LF608.
1993 GMC 1500. It has oil and still runs
Re: Do you run a bypass filter system? Why? [Re: dnewton3] #4829779
08/02/18 08:39 PM
08/02/18 08:39 PM
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 803
Granville, Ohio
slalom44 Offline
slalom44  Offline
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 803
Granville, Ohio
I have a different perspective on bypass filters than dnewton3 based on my personal experience:

Bypass filters have a significantly finer filtration media than full flow filters. Years ago Bob (yes, THE Bob here at BITOG) took an Amsoil bypass filter setup and measured the pressure drop across different full flow filters and an Amsoil bypass filter. I donít recall the exact values but all full flow filters showed something like a 2-3 psi pressure drop with operating temperature engine oil, while the Amsoil bypass filter measured something like a 15 psi pressure drop with the restrictor valve removed. And the bypass filter was significantly larger than all full flow filters tested.

There was a guy on a Jeep website around 15 years ago that did back-to-back UOAs with different oil filters using used top-off oil and showed how some full- flow filters are a little better than others, but not a significant difference. Then he slapped a bypass filter on, ran a few hundred miles and did another UOA. The silicates and wear metals dropped to a fraction of their previous levels and the moisture was completely removed. That thread convinced me to use a bypass filter.

Gas engines donít generate enough soot to overcome the dispersant additives of modern engine oils and my UOAs reflect this. Iíve been using an Amsoil Dual Remote Bypass Filter with OCIs of 40,000 miles for a long time. I burn more oil than I did in the past but at 392,000 miles my 2003 Honda S2000 is the highest mileage S2000 on the S2000 websites. I canít prove or say for certain that itís because of the bypass filter but itís certainly ironic that I passed by everyone else. The S2000 has FRM cylinder walls, not cast iron sleeves so you canít just rebore the cylinders. I have shown zero moisture and low wear metals in all of my UOAs.

Here is my latest UOA. I will be getting another one in a few months.

https://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php/ubb/showflat/Number/4189775/Searchpage/1/Main/258415/Words/slalom44/Search/true/Amsoil_0W-30_Honda_S2000_40,25#Post4189775


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