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High End BMX Bike #4812323
07/12/18 02:32 PM
07/12/18 02:32 PM
Joined: May 2012
Posts: 2,498
Indiana
Phishin Offline OP
Phishin  Offline OP
Joined: May 2012
Posts: 2,498
Indiana
My son is 13, he's growing, and it's about time to build another bike. He's been racing BMX for 3 years now.

I'm going to keep this bike, as is, and put it in storage. I won't be stripping components off of it for the next build. It's fun to build these bikes.

This bike was about as high end as you could build 3 years ago. Carbon fiber frame, works, and cranks. High-end Onyx hubs. Titanium spokes. Close to $4k when I got done. I'm starting to shop now and make decisions on what manufacturers I want to go with...



This second pic was taken last year in Tulsa, OK over Thanksgiving at the biggest race of the year: The Grand Nationals. He just came off the track with the 12 year old title. Pretty happy moment for me and the boy.



2018 Chevy Silerado 3500HD 6.0L Gas: RLI 10w30
2010 Accord-LX K24: VSP 0w20/MaxLife 10w30 + LG BioTech HD
2014 CR-V LX K24: M1 0w30
Re: High End BMX Bike [Re: Phishin] #4812325
07/12/18 02:38 PM
07/12/18 02:38 PM
Joined: Mar 2016
Posts: 949
PA,US
HemiHawk Offline
HemiHawk  Offline
Joined: Mar 2016
Posts: 949
PA,US
hot dam thats awesome! What does the bike weigh? any close up shots of the bike?

I'm more of an MTB rider myself, but having the right hardware makes a world of difference. For my MTB I have a titanium frame. Its not as light as some carbon frames but it really soaks up harshness. I imagine for BMX racing carbon is perfect.


2016 Nissan Frontier Pro4x
2017 VW GTI sport
1995 Mustang GTS
Re: High End BMX Bike [Re: Phishin] #4812359
07/12/18 03:10 PM
07/12/18 03:10 PM
Joined: May 2015
Posts: 643
California
SavagePatch Offline
SavagePatch  Offline
Joined: May 2015
Posts: 643
California
Congrats on winning the title!

And I thought my 6yr old son's Specialized Hot Rock was fancy!

What chain lube do you use?

Re: High End BMX Bike [Re: HemiHawk] #4812377
07/12/18 03:30 PM
07/12/18 03:30 PM
Joined: May 2012
Posts: 2,498
Indiana
Phishin Offline OP
Phishin  Offline OP
Joined: May 2012
Posts: 2,498
Indiana
Originally Posted By: HemiHawk
hot dam thats awesome! What does the bike weigh? any close up shots of the bike?

I'm more of an MTB rider myself, but having the right hardware makes a world of difference. For my MTB I have a titanium frame. Its not as light as some carbon frames but it really soaks up harshness. I imagine for BMX racing carbon is perfect.


The bike weighs 14 pounds 10 ounces race ready.

More pics




2018 Chevy Silerado 3500HD 6.0L Gas: RLI 10w30
2010 Accord-LX K24: VSP 0w20/MaxLife 10w30 + LG BioTech HD
2014 CR-V LX K24: M1 0w30
Re: High End BMX Bike [Re: SavagePatch] #4812382
07/12/18 03:34 PM
07/12/18 03:34 PM
Joined: May 2012
Posts: 2,498
Indiana
Phishin Offline OP
Phishin  Offline OP
Joined: May 2012
Posts: 2,498
Indiana
Originally Posted By: SavagePatch
What chain lube do you use?


Usually we just soak the chain in hot parafin wax for 30 minutes, let cool, and knock off the excess. It's been proven in many studies to be the most efficient.

In a pinch or bind, I use this: wax dissolved in very volatile solvent.



2018 Chevy Silerado 3500HD 6.0L Gas: RLI 10w30
2010 Accord-LX K24: VSP 0w20/MaxLife 10w30 + LG BioTech HD
2014 CR-V LX K24: M1 0w30
Re: High End BMX Bike [Re: Phishin] #4814895
07/15/18 03:43 PM
07/15/18 03:43 PM
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 383
OTTAWA, ON, CA
craigq Offline
craigq  Offline
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 383
OTTAWA, ON, CA
Congrats to your son on his accomplishments and to you for supporting him.
That race BMX bike looks sweet cool


2017 Subaru Forester XT - Castrol Edge 5W30/OEM
2018 Mitsubishi Mirage - OEM/OEM
Re: High End BMX Bike [Re: Phishin] #4820279
07/22/18 09:19 AM
07/22/18 09:19 AM
Joined: Nov 2015
Posts: 7
California
englertracing Offline
englertracing  Offline
Joined: Nov 2015
Posts: 7
California
So I use to be into riding skate parks and dirt jumps, now I only do Down hill Mtb, and Enduro.

So im not totally hip on the state of the art bmx technology, But I'm up on the high end mtb stuff not to interested in anything <8000.

I am familiar with onyx hubs
They claim to be lowest friction, but I feel at the cost of engagement time which is claimed to be instant, but that is not the case. I believe their rears are not particularly light.

Interesting tech from Project 321 with 216 points of engagement and magnetically actuated paws. Its basically evolved from an I9 driver, Lighter than the onyx in the mtb segment, don't know about BMX. probably one of the fastest engaging hubs available.

Shimano are coming out with something interesting called scylence, which uses a ratchet ring like dt swiss but fully retracts it for ZERO drag from the ratchet system but i am not sure if a single speed option will become available.

The spokes, at some point as he gets heavier you may want to move to steel, something like dt swiss aerolite. Lightest steel option, rotary swaged then bladed (read forged as heck) you can surely build a stiffer wheel that way.

for your spoke nips look at wheel fanatyk spline drive spoke nipples, much better to work on than square, and also no driver no the tire side (miniscule weight savings)

are industry 9 wheel/aluminum spoke systems a thing in bmx? Its a deal in mtb, I have tested a set for a few rides so I don't really have much to say about them other than I find the concept interesting or amusing even, but everything I know screams that aluminum is poor in tension spring service....

how about carbon wheels? Is that a thing in bmx? Huge deal in mountain bikes, they are everywhere, Envie, Reynolds, Derby, nox, Knight, nobl, santa cruz, LB, Raceface.

How about tubless? Im not sure that there is any support for this in bmx, but on a mtb, ill never run a tube again!! EVER! Mavic had a really slick system where the spoke wall of the double wall rim WAS drilled and threaded, the spoke nipple went into this adapter, and the inner wall/ tire side was NOT drilled, add a valve, bingo bango you have a tubeless wheel.
Everyone else figured out you can just use tape! but the bead and rim must be up to the task

what about brakes, mtb has been disc for decades, and now road bikes are going disc, something like a formula would make the best v brakes in the world on a really true wheel feel like a butter knife vs a Scalpel, if the weight is unacceptable look at a trickstuff cleg 2 and a true black and absolute black rotors.


also im in the chain wax cult as well
what are you adding to yours?
ive tried bees wax, hydrogenated castor wax, carnuba wax, blendzall castor oil, powdered ptfe, mobil 1 oil.

favorite for low friction (perceived not tested) 2/3 parafin, 1/3 mobil 1 oil
favorite for longevity (blasting through creek crossings) 50% parrafin, 20% bees wax, 30%, Mobil 1.
id be keen to add ptfe oil, but have not seen a suitable source yet.

what grease are you using for your bearings?
Im using the long life on my bike that rides a trail with 10 creek crossings
the tt stuff in my bike that sees 99.99% dry.
https://www.ceramicspeed.com/en/sport/shop/grease-and-tools/


on a bike like yours, (well not with the slotted front hub) Id be tempted to remove the inner bearing shields and use a thin oil, perhaps ATF, Perhaps hadley hubs, PTFE oil avaliable through https://www.balleracing.com/hadley-sdh-rear-conversion-kits-parts/sdh-freehub-oil
on the rear id only run the seal on the outer side of freehub, and the non drive side outer.

The seals and lubricants make a larger difference in friction than the bearings being ceramic or standard.

remember there is more to bikes than weight
sometimes stiffer is faster
if a disc setup is heaver, the modulation and power in provides may greatly overshadow the weight penalty.

be creative,
have some fun
do some experimentation

Last edited by englertracing; 07/22/18 09:20 AM.
Re: High End BMX Bike [Re: englertracing] #4822020
07/24/18 10:14 AM
07/24/18 10:14 AM
Joined: May 2012
Posts: 2,498
Indiana
Phishin Offline OP
Phishin  Offline OP
Joined: May 2012
Posts: 2,498
Indiana
Originally Posted By: englertracing
So I use to be into riding skate parks and dirt jumps, now I only do Down hill Mtb, and Enduro.

So im not totally hip on the state of the art bmx technology, But I'm up on the high end mtb stuff not to interested in anything <8000.

I am familiar with onyx hubs
They claim to be lowest friction, but I feel at the cost of engagement time which is claimed to be instant, but that is not the case. I believe their rears are not particularly light.

Interesting tech from Project 321 with 216 points of engagement and magnetically actuated paws. Its basically evolved from an I9 driver, Lighter than the onyx in the mtb segment, don't know about BMX. probably one of the fastest engaging hubs available.

Shimano are coming out with something interesting called scylence, which uses a ratchet ring like dt swiss but fully retracts it for ZERO drag from the ratchet system but i am not sure if a single speed option will become available.

The spokes, at some point as he gets heavier you may want to move to steel, something like dt swiss aerolite. Lightest steel option, rotary swaged then bladed (read forged as heck) you can surely build a stiffer wheel that way.

for your spoke nips look at wheel fanatyk spline drive spoke nipples, much better to work on than square, and also no driver no the tire side (miniscule weight savings)

are industry 9 wheel/aluminum spoke systems a thing in bmx? Its a deal in mtb, I have tested a set for a few rides so I don't really have much to say about them other than I find the concept interesting or amusing even, but everything I know screams that aluminum is poor in tension spring service....

how about carbon wheels? Is that a thing in bmx? Huge deal in mountain bikes, they are everywhere, Envie, Reynolds, Derby, nox, Knight, nobl, santa cruz, LB, Raceface.

How about tubless? Im not sure that there is any support for this in bmx, but on a mtb, ill never run a tube again!! EVER! Mavic had a really slick system where the spoke wall of the double wall rim WAS drilled and threaded, the spoke nipple went into this adapter, and the inner wall/ tire side was NOT drilled, add a valve, bingo bango you have a tubeless wheel.
Everyone else figured out you can just use tape! but the bead and rim must be up to the task

what about brakes, mtb has been disc for decades, and now road bikes are going disc, something like a formula would make the best v brakes in the world on a really true wheel feel like a butter knife vs a Scalpel, if the weight is unacceptable look at a trickstuff cleg 2 and a true black and absolute black rotors.


also im in the chain wax cult as well
what are you adding to yours?
ive tried bees wax, hydrogenated castor wax, carnuba wax, blendzall castor oil, powdered ptfe, mobil 1 oil.

favorite for low friction (perceived not tested) 2/3 parafin, 1/3 mobil 1 oil
favorite for longevity (blasting through creek crossings) 50% parrafin, 20% bees wax, 30%, Mobil 1.
id be keen to add ptfe oil, but have not seen a suitable source yet.

what grease are you using for your bearings?
Im using the long life on my bike that rides a trail with 10 creek crossings
the tt stuff in my bike that sees 99.99% dry.
https://www.ceramicspeed.com/en/sport/shop/grease-and-tools/


on a bike like yours, (well not with the slotted front hub) Id be tempted to remove the inner bearing shields and use a thin oil, perhaps ATF, Perhaps hadley hubs, PTFE oil avaliable through https://www.balleracing.com/hadley-sdh-rear-conversion-kits-parts/sdh-freehub-oil
on the rear id only run the seal on the outer side of freehub, and the non drive side outer.

The seals and lubricants make a larger difference in friction than the bearings being ceramic or standard.

remember there is more to bikes than weight
sometimes stiffer is faster
if a disc setup is heaver, the modulation and power in provides may greatly overshadow the weight penalty.

be creative,
have some fun
do some experimentation


Let me go through your message and answer some of your comments:

Onyx hubs are the "best" we have in BMX. The problem with using other non-BMX hubs is that they require modification because BMX frames are an odd-ball size. There is a push to modernize the BMX frame so the MASSIVE world of MTB hubs can be used on BMX bikes. Until that happens, you stick with BMX specific hubs or you own/run a machine shop. We feel that Onyx hubs do provide almost INSTANT engagement. It's pretty close. Yes, they are a bit heavy, but they are smooth and roll forever compared to every other BMX hub on the market.

We're still running titanium spokes. They are lighter (slightly) than other light weight steel spoke options. But not much.

Never heard of Industry 9. I don't think aluminum spokes sounds like a good idea in BMX. BMX is a full-contact sport. Banging wheels and frames and elbows is VERY common place.

Yes, I have some carbon wheels for the next build. They don't provide much weight savings at all vs. top of the line aluminum wheels, but they are MUCH stiffer and provide less wheel maintenance/truing.

Tubeless has attempted to make its way into BMX, but it hasn't found a foothold.

Disc brakes are starting to catch on. We try not to use our brakes in BMX. It's more of a fashion thing than anything.

I had nothing to my way. I'm gonna try your Mobil 1 recipe.

I use a high-speed spindle grease on my bearings. The RaceFace bottom bracket that came with the cranks are JUNK. So, I had Onyx press fit their ceramics onto the RF BB, so everything runs on Onyx bearings. I use a VERY LIGHT amount of grease, and I use what Onyx installs when they are new: Klueber LDS ISOFLEX 18 Special A


2018 Chevy Silerado 3500HD 6.0L Gas: RLI 10w30
2010 Accord-LX K24: VSP 0w20/MaxLife 10w30 + LG BioTech HD
2014 CR-V LX K24: M1 0w30
Re: High End BMX Bike [Re: Phishin] #4823775
07/26/18 05:26 PM
07/26/18 05:26 PM
Joined: Nov 2015
Posts: 7
California
englertracing Offline
englertracing  Offline
Joined: Nov 2015
Posts: 7
California


https://bmxmuseum.com/reference/4437
the spoke diameter is large, an the threads on them are also really large diameter 7075 aluminum, so the minimum thread diameter is actually larger than the spokes butted section. The spokes thread into the hub. It builds a ridiculously stiff wheel in torsionally and laterally, not sure about radially. I kind of have a fascination with the idea, but enough reservations that I don't own a set myself. But it looks like they are NLA for bmx anyways.

regarding the chain wax formulation
I found canning paraffin to dry too hard and flaky, so the amount of mobil 1 I add was determined by dipping something into the wax, and letting it cool and harden, then scrape it off, when it smears instead of cracks off (think butter from the fridge) you have about enough oil. If you go too thin it it doesn't stay attached as well (think butter that has been left out).'

Im going to look into the kluber isoflex
I have also been interested in SKF Low torque grease
LGLT 2
LEGE 2
I just compared the LGLT to the kluber, they appear extremely similar, the kluber having a lower viscosity base oil.
no numbers for the aforementioned ceramic speed greases though.


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