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2009 F150 Fuel Trim Help #4812273
07/12/18 12:22 PM
07/12/18 12:22 PM
Joined: Feb 2014
Posts: 188
Houston
PReal Offline OP
PReal  Offline OP
Joined: Feb 2014
Posts: 188
Houston
Got my 5.4 3V replaced a couple months back due to a dropped valve.

Since I got it back, Iíve had a rough idle, a little shutter in drive when I let off the brake and then it runs great.

Iíve used numerous code readers and scanner and there are no active codes. Just left the engine builder and he is thinking I have a clogged or leaking hector. After plotting the short term fuel trims there is a strange difference between the two.

On the same time scale the bank one trim bounces up and down around 2-3x more then bank 2. Bank 2 is consistent with a couple higher spots when the a/c compressor kicks on and off. Bank one is a jagged up and down with essentially no smooth section.

Iíll work on sharing a picture of what I plotted but what would make the short term fuel trim on one bank bounce 2-3x more then the other bank. I have all new coils and the engine runs great at higher RPM. Is it time for new fuel injectors? There are 166k on the truck.


2009 F150 5.4
2008 Yukon 5.3
1996 F150 4.9 M5OD
1966 Ranchero 289 T5
1965 Mustang 306 T5
Re: 2009 F150 Fuel Trim Help [Re: PReal] #4812275
07/12/18 12:26 PM
07/12/18 12:26 PM
Joined: Feb 2014
Posts: 188
Houston
PReal Offline OP
PReal  Offline OP
Joined: Feb 2014
Posts: 188
Houston

Last edited by PReal; 07/12/18 12:26 PM.

2009 F150 5.4
2008 Yukon 5.3
1996 F150 4.9 M5OD
1966 Ranchero 289 T5
1965 Mustang 306 T5
Re: 2009 F150 Fuel Trim Help [Re: PReal] #4812301
07/12/18 01:00 PM
07/12/18 01:00 PM
Joined: Feb 2014
Posts: 188
Houston
PReal Offline OP
PReal  Offline OP
Joined: Feb 2014
Posts: 188
Houston


2009 F150 5.4
2008 Yukon 5.3
1996 F150 4.9 M5OD
1966 Ranchero 289 T5
1965 Mustang 306 T5
Re: 2009 F150 Fuel Trim Help [Re: PReal] #4812334
07/12/18 01:47 PM
07/12/18 01:47 PM
Joined: Jun 2018
Posts: 9
AR
Jethro_Bob Offline
Jethro_Bob  Offline
Joined: Jun 2018
Posts: 9
AR
Have you compared front o2 sensor readings for the 2 banks? If bank one isn't jumping around with the fuel trim, it could be in the process of failing and sending incorrect data to the pcm.

Re: 2009 F150 Fuel Trim Help [Re: PReal] #4812336
07/12/18 01:49 PM
07/12/18 01:49 PM
Joined: Feb 2014
Posts: 188
Houston
PReal Offline OP
PReal  Offline OP
Joined: Feb 2014
Posts: 188
Houston
O2 fuel trims were bouncing around consistant with the trim on both banks.


2009 F150 5.4
2008 Yukon 5.3
1996 F150 4.9 M5OD
1966 Ranchero 289 T5
1965 Mustang 306 T5
Re: 2009 F150 Fuel Trim Help [Re: PReal] #4812412
07/12/18 02:57 PM
07/12/18 02:57 PM
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 20,564
MA, Mittelfranken.de
Trav Offline
Trav  Offline
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 20,564
MA, Mittelfranken.de
Injectors are always a possibility but I would look for a vacuum leak, possibly PCV system.


ASE L1, Master. Deutsch Meisterbrief.
Re: 2009 F150 Fuel Trim Help [Re: Trav] #4812426
07/12/18 03:13 PM
07/12/18 03:13 PM
Joined: Feb 2014
Posts: 188
Houston
PReal Offline OP
PReal  Offline OP
Joined: Feb 2014
Posts: 188
Houston
Wouldnít a vacuum leak effect both banks? Itís only one side of the engine to me whose is what is so strange.

I donít think the pcv is serviceable on my truck.


2009 F150 5.4
2008 Yukon 5.3
1996 F150 4.9 M5OD
1966 Ranchero 289 T5
1965 Mustang 306 T5
Re: 2009 F150 Fuel Trim Help [Re: PReal] #4812453
07/12/18 03:55 PM
07/12/18 03:55 PM
Joined: Jul 2011
Posts: 965
Missouri
cb_13 Offline
cb_13  Offline
Joined: Jul 2011
Posts: 965
Missouri
Originally Posted By: PReal
Wouldnít a vacuum leak effect both banks? Itís only one side of the engine to me whose is what is so strange.

I donít think the pcv is serviceable on my truck.


PCv is a metered orifice in the valve cover on the 5.4 3v. A vacuum leak from an intake gasket could affect only one cylinder bank.

Re: 2009 F150 Fuel Trim Help [Re: PReal] #4812458
07/12/18 03:57 PM
07/12/18 03:57 PM
Joined: Feb 2014
Posts: 188
Houston
PReal Offline OP
PReal  Offline OP
Joined: Feb 2014
Posts: 188
Houston
How would I diagnose a vacuum leak on the intake manifold? Smoke test?


2009 F150 5.4
2008 Yukon 5.3
1996 F150 4.9 M5OD
1966 Ranchero 289 T5
1965 Mustang 306 T5
Re: 2009 F150 Fuel Trim Help [Re: PReal] #4812470
07/12/18 04:04 PM
07/12/18 04:04 PM
Joined: Feb 2014
Posts: 188
Houston
PReal Offline OP
PReal  Offline OP
Joined: Feb 2014
Posts: 188
Houston
Also, even with a vacuum leak on one side, wouldnít I get a consistent fuel trim but just a richer percentage to compensate for the additional air?


2009 F150 5.4
2008 Yukon 5.3
1996 F150 4.9 M5OD
1966 Ranchero 289 T5
1965 Mustang 306 T5
Re: 2009 F150 Fuel Trim Help [Re: PReal] #4812492
07/12/18 04:37 PM
07/12/18 04:37 PM
Joined: Jul 2011
Posts: 965
Missouri
cb_13 Offline
cb_13  Offline
Joined: Jul 2011
Posts: 965
Missouri
Originally Posted By: PReal
Also, even with a vacuum leak on one side, wouldnít I get a consistent fuel trim but just a richer percentage to compensate for the additional air?


Likely, although I'm not familiar with monitoring fuel trims on a snap on scanner I'm only familiar with IDS. So that readout looks Greek to me.

Easiest way to rule out a vacuum leak is if the fuel trims return to around 0 when opening up the throttle. As the engine will overcome the vacuum leak with
the throttle opened. Smoke testing the intake or spraying brake cleaner around the plenum will also find it.

Re: 2009 F150 Fuel Trim Help [Re: PReal] #4812494
07/12/18 04:43 PM
07/12/18 04:43 PM
Joined: Feb 2014
Posts: 188
Houston
PReal Offline OP
PReal  Offline OP
Joined: Feb 2014
Posts: 188
Houston
Iíve stayed the plenum with brake cleaner and didnít see any rise in rpm.

That dang fuel trim is crazy. I canít comprehend anything that wouldíve the fuel adjust 2-3x more often then the other side except a partially bad injector. Since the O2 reads all 4 on that bank, one cylinder rich/lean would drive it to more adjustment. If all cylinders were lean/rush id get a code due to multiple misfires.


2009 F150 5.4
2008 Yukon 5.3
1996 F150 4.9 M5OD
1966 Ranchero 289 T5
1965 Mustang 306 T5
Re: 2009 F150 Fuel Trim Help [Re: PReal] #4812527
07/12/18 05:25 PM
07/12/18 05:25 PM
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 5,949
Illinois
SHOZ Offline
SHOZ  Offline
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 5,949
Illinois
What do the primary O2 voltages look like between the two banks?


2008 Hyundai Accent 1.6L 5 sp manual hatchback
2010 Hyundai Genesis Coupe Track 2L Turbo 6sp manual
Re: 2009 F150 Fuel Trim Help [Re: PReal] #4812532
07/12/18 05:35 PM
07/12/18 05:35 PM
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 20,564
MA, Mittelfranken.de
Trav Offline
Trav  Offline
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 20,564
MA, Mittelfranken.de
Fuel trims will be different depending on if its ported or manifold vacuum. Manifold vacuum will be higher at idle and low rpm causing fuel to be added in that range, ported vacuum will increase with rpm and have the the opposite effect on trims.

Yes a vacuum leak can effect one bang more than the other depending on the location of the leak if there is in fact one.
An intake leak near 2 adjacent ports for example with drive the mixture lean on those 2 only but because you have only one wide band on each bank it will adjust the trim for the whole bank they are on.

What are the exact readings for bank 1 and bank 2? For example bank 1 +10 and fluctuating and bank 2 +3 more stable.
Spraying brake fluid all over isn't the best way, the reading may be too short lived, try (unlit) propane with a nozzle and extension hose and watch the trims for a few seconds as you move along the manifold, plenum, hoses and connections, keep the flow wide open or almost at the valve.

https://www.homedepot.com/p/Bernzomatic-WH0159-Universal-Torch-Extension-Hose-361542/202539579


ASE L1, Master. Deutsch Meisterbrief.
Re: 2009 F150 Fuel Trim Help [Re: PReal] #4812547
07/12/18 05:50 PM
07/12/18 05:50 PM
Joined: Sep 2014
Posts: 1,487
Toronto Canada
WobblyElvis Offline
WobblyElvis  Offline
Joined: Sep 2014
Posts: 1,487
Toronto Canada
The Power Brake booster? Just a thought.

The ScannerDanner forum is just the place for this kind of question. I suggest if the answer doesn't present itself here, you give them a try. Put together all the info you have a explain the problem as clearly as you can.
https://www.scannerdanner.com/forum/post-your-repair-questions-here.html

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