Lowest Noack oil for my 2018 VW GTI

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Originally Posted By: CleverUserName
Ravenol makes a number of different VW 502 oils in 0w30, 5w30, 0w40 and 5w40.

I believe they are all PAO based and have a NOACK of 7-8%

The Amsoil (Non euro) 0w40 and Rowe 0w40 RS also have excellent specs and Noack of 7.6 or 7.7%

They are not all PAO based, most are not.
 
Originally Posted By: edyvw
European manufacturers are very, very specific about NOACK.


This is exactly what came to mind when I first read the OP.

While I do agree a decision cannot be made on NOACK alone, I think NOACK has a story to tell if you're looking at an oil analysis. As an example, I was comparing Mobil 1 5W-30 ESP to other C3 oils before coming to a decision and had a look at the Russian VOA that was floating around. The additive package didn't look particularly spectacular:

Molybdenum: 80
Boron: 214
Calcium: 1,062
Phosphorus: 764
Zinc: 908

Until I had a thorough look at the following:

Pour Point: -45°C / -49°F
Flashpoint: 254°C / 489°F
NOACK: 5.6%

That there tells me this is a very high quality base stock, possibly with esters, and when you look at the whole picture, the decision was made. Some might try to argue my decision, however, given my operating conditions it fits the bill. Not everyone is going to have a coolant temperature of 105 - 120 ºF when they fire their engine up after it's been sitting overnight or hit 232 ºF during their commute and in the case of the GTI in question, I completely understand the owner's concern.
 
Can't go past Shell Helix Ultra ECT C2/C3 0W30 (AKA: Pennzoil Platinum Euro LX 0W30.) Meets the VW 504/507 spec, has a VI of over 200 and made form GTL base stock. What's not to like. NOACK is quoted as
Can be a little tricky to find in places, but just about the cleanest oil around (save for ashless aviation oils.) Having a modest 0.6% SAPS also means that when oil does flash off / gets burnt it leaves fewer deposits. I've noticed less oil burn and a complete absence of new carbon/sludge deposits in my Saab 9-5 turbo over the last 30,000kms on it.

regards
Jordan
 
Originally Posted By: edyvw

European manufacturers are very, very specific about NOACK.
Average American does not drive GTI.
Not sure how CAFE is stupid, but some people survived 20th and moved to 21st century. I understand that in some parts of the U.S. (like in my neighboring states) it is still struggle to move to 20th century.


VW only allows a max NOACK.
502.00 is 13% max
504/507 is 11% max

MB also calls for max NOACK, which ranges from 10% to 13%

It's no more specific than the ILSAC GF-5 and API SN specification, which is 15% max. VW & Benz call for a tighter limit. That doesn't qualify as "very, very specific"
 
Originally Posted By: UG_Passat
Originally Posted By: edyvw

European manufacturers are very, very specific about NOACK.
Average American does not drive GTI.
Not sure how CAFE is stupid, but some people survived 20th and moved to 21st century. I understand that in some parts of the U.S. (like in my neighboring states) it is still struggle to move to 20th century.


VW only allows a max NOACK.
502.00 is 13% max
504/507 is 11% max

MB also calls for max NOACK, which ranges from 10% to 13%

It's no more specific than the ILSAC GF-5 and API SN specification, which is 15% max. VW & Benz call for a tighter limit. That doesn't qualify as "very, very specific"

I would say it is very specific as there is huge difference between NOACK above 10% and below.
If that is not big deal, then I am not sure why Castrol 5W40 does not meet MB229.5, or why ILSAC GF-5 oils do not have lower NOACK, just for fun you know.
 
Ended up getting castrol edge 0w-40 since google express is running 25%(code is EXTRA25) off total order and walmart is one of their vendors.
Should serve me well as castrol is VW's oil partner and has full vw 502 505 and bmw/mercedes approvals.

Thanks for all the help fellas!
 
Originally Posted By: edyvw
Originally Posted By: UG_Passat
Originally Posted By: edyvw

European manufacturers are very, very specific about NOACK.
Average American does not drive GTI.
Not sure how CAFE is stupid, but some people survived 20th and moved to 21st century. I understand that in some parts of the U.S. (like in my neighboring states) it is still struggle to move to 20th century.


VW only allows a max NOACK.
502.00 is 13% max
504/507 is 11% max

MB also calls for max NOACK, which ranges from 10% to 13%

It's no more specific than the ILSAC GF-5 and API SN specification, which is 15% max. VW & Benz call for a tighter limit. That doesn't qualify as "very, very specific"

I would say it is very specific as there is huge difference between NOACK above 10% and below.
If that is not big deal, then I am not sure why Castrol 5W40 does not meet MB229.5, or why ILSAC GF-5 oils do not have lower NOACK, just for fun you know.


http://www.pqiadata.org/Mobil10W20dexos.html
GF-5 oil with NOACK of 10.7%. You're right, GF-5 oils do not have lower NOACK.

MB229.5 has a limit of 10%.
502.00 has a limit of 13%.

That's probably why MB229.5 (produced at the NOACK limit) can meet VW502.00 NOACK, but not the other way around (produced at the NOACK limit).

But, according to Castrol PSD, the 5w40 A3/B4, the Castrol oil you loath, it meets MB229.5
https://msdspds.castrol.com/bpglis/FusionPDS.nsf/Files/39135439C56B30BB8025824F004B1E87/$File/BPXE-AX39RX.pdf

And according to MB themselves, Edge Professional A3 5w40 and Edge 5w40 A3/B4 meets 229.5 and 502.00/505.00
Both are FST oils with the same properties on the PDS

https://bevo.mercedes-benz.com/bevolisten/229.5_en.html
 
Last edited:
u
Originally Posted By: UG_Passat


But, according to Castrol PSD, the 5w40 A3/B4, the Castrol oil you loath, it meets MB229.5
https://msdspds.castrol.com/bpglis/FusionPDS.nsf/Files/39135439C56B30BB8025824F004B1E87/$File/BPXE-AX39RX.pdf

And according to MB themselves, Edge Professional A3 5w40 and Edge 5w40 A3/B4 meets 229.5 and 502.00/505.00
Both are FST oils with the same properties on the PDS

https://bevo.mercedes-benz.com/bevolisten/229.5_en.html



I wanted try Castrol Edge 5W40 A3/B4 but I couldn't find it for sale anywhere.

I think this is the Castrol Edge 5W40 available in the US; https://msdspds.castrol.com/bpglis/FusionPDS.nsf/Files/9968EF087EC8CBD6802582A4004AD6DA/$File/BPXE-AA5D4U.pdf
 
Last edited:
Originally Posted By: UG_Passat
Originally Posted By: edyvw
Originally Posted By: UG_Passat
Originally Posted By: edyvw

European manufacturers are very, very specific about NOACK.
Average American does not drive GTI.
Not sure how CAFE is stupid, but some people survived 20th and moved to 21st century. I understand that in some parts of the U.S. (like in my neighboring states) it is still struggle to move to 20th century.


VW only allows a max NOACK.
502.00 is 13% max
504/507 is 11% max

MB also calls for max NOACK, which ranges from 10% to 13%

It's no more specific than the ILSAC GF-5 and API SN specification, which is 15% max. VW & Benz call for a tighter limit. That doesn't qualify as "very, very specific"

I would say it is very specific as there is huge difference between NOACK above 10% and below.
If that is not big deal, then I am not sure why Castrol 5W40 does not meet MB229.5, or why ILSAC GF-5 oils do not have lower NOACK, just for fun you know.


http://www.pqiadata.org/Mobil10W20dexos.html
GF-5 oil with NOACK of 10.7%. You're right, GF-5 oils do not have lower NOACK.

MB229.5 has a limit of 10%.
502.00 has a limit of 13%.

That's probably why MB229.5 (produced at the NOACK limit) can meet VW502.00 NOACK, but not the other way around (produced at the NOACK limit).

But, according to Castrol PSD, the 5w40 A3/B4, the Castrol oil you loath, it meets MB229.5
https://msdspds.castrol.com/bpglis/FusionPDS.nsf/Files/39135439C56B30BB8025824F004B1E87/$File/BPXE-AX39RX.pdf

And according to MB themselves, Edge Professional A3 5w40 and Edge 5w40 A3/B4 meets 229.5 and 502.00/505.00
Both are FST oils with the same properties on the PDS

https://bevo.mercedes-benz.com/bevolisten/229.5_en.html


Castrol PDS you posted is European Castrol 5W40 which meets MB229.5.
When you looking at pds, check at the bottom which country pds originated from. In this case it is UK.
We get 5W40 specifically made for the US here in the US and IT DOES NOT meet MB229.5.
 
Originally Posted By: jakeyjohn1
u
Originally Posted By: UG_Passat


But, according to Castrol PSD, the 5w40 A3/B4, the Castrol oil you loath, it meets MB229.5
https://msdspds.castrol.com/bpglis/FusionPDS.nsf/Files/39135439C56B30BB8025824F004B1E87/$File/BPXE-AX39RX.pdf

And according to MB themselves, Edge Professional A3 5w40 and Edge 5w40 A3/B4 meets 229.5 and 502.00/505.00
Both are FST oils with the same properties on the PDS

https://bevo.mercedes-benz.com/bevolisten/229.5_en.html



I wanted try Castrol Edge 5W40 A3/B4 but I couldn't find it for sale anywhere.

I think this is the Castrol Edge 5W40 available in the US; https://msdspds.castrol.com/bpglis/FusionPDS.nsf/Files/9968EF087EC8CBD6802582A4004AD6DA/$File/BPXE-AA5D4U.pdf


It is POS. Mediocre at best oil.
 
Originally Posted By: JFAllen
Pennzoil Platinum Euro LX 0W30.) Meets the VW 504/507 spec, has a VI of over 200 and made form GTL base stock. What's not to like. NOACK is quoted as


I agree that the PP EURO LX 0W30 looks on paper to be an excellent oil but FWIW I don't see it listed as a VW approved 504/507 oil on the latest VW/Audi 'allowed' oil selections shown in the latest TSB shown here:

AUDI/VW APPROVED OILS as of October 2017
 
Originally Posted By: kschachn
Originally Posted By: 21Rouge
I agree that the PP EURO LX 0W30 looks on paper to be an excellent oil but FWIW I don't see it listed as a VW approved 504/507 oil on the latest VW/Audi 'allowed' oil selections shown in the latest TSB shown here:

AUDI/VW APPROVED OILS as of October 2017

There is a different list for VW vehicles at https://erwin.volkswagen.de/erwin/downloadStaticFile/volkswagen/files/oil/step_50200_50500.pdf. But I don't see it on that one either.


But correct me if I am wrong but the oil approved list for VW that you linked only shows oils for the 502/505 rating ie nothing for 504/507 ?
confused2.gif
 
Last edited:
Here is the list for 504/507:

https://erwin.volkswagen.de/erwin/downloadStaticFile/volkswagen/files/oil/step_50400_50700.pdf

PP Euro LX 0W-30 is on the list.

Originally Posted By: 21Rouge
Originally Posted By: kschachn
Originally Posted By: 21Rouge
I agree that the PP EURO LX 0W30 looks on paper to be an excellent oil but FWIW I don't see it listed as a VW approved 504/507 oil on the latest VW/Audi 'allowed' oil selections shown in the latest TSB shown here:

AUDI/VW APPROVED OILS as of October 2017

There is a different list for VW vehicles at https://erwin.volkswagen.de/erwin/downloadStaticFile/volkswagen/files/oil/step_50200_50500.pdf. But I don't see it on that one either.


But correct me if I am wrong but the oil approved list for VW that you linked only shows oils for the 502/505 rating ie nothing for 504/507 ?
confused2.gif
 
Originally Posted By: edyvw
Originally Posted By: CleverUserName
Ravenol makes a number of different VW 502 oils in 0w30, 5w30, 0w40 and 5w40.

I believe they are all PAO based and have a NOACK of 7-8%

The Amsoil (Non euro) 0w40 and Rowe 0w40 RS also have excellent specs and Noack of 7.6 or 7.7%

They are not all PAO based, most are not.



Rowe 0w-40 RS is PAO based.
I'm looking at this for the '17 M2, moving forward.
 
Originally Posted By: bluescoupe
Originally Posted By: edyvw
Originally Posted By: CleverUserName
Ravenol makes a number of different VW 502 oils in 0w30, 5w30, 0w40 and 5w40.

I believe they are all PAO based and have a NOACK of 7-8%

The Amsoil (Non euro) 0w40 and Rowe 0w40 RS also have excellent specs and Noack of 7.6 or 7.7%

They are not all PAO based, most are not.



Rowe 0w-40 RS is PAO based.
I'm looking at this for the '17 M2, moving forward.

And why PAO is so important?
 
Redlines EXCELLENT real synthetics have very low noacks + are prolly the BEST oils out there but of course $$$$$. i ran the 10-30 in my 01 jetta that had 200,000 at trade in with 20" of vacuum on the boost-vac gauge!! most all 10-30 will have lower noack but not approved because its a 10W + not a 5W but depending on your local temps a 10 W can do better!!!
 
Originally Posted By: benjy
Redlines EXCELLENT real synthetics have very low noacks + are prolly the BEST oils out there but of course $$$$$. i ran the 10-30 in my 01 jetta that had 200,000 at trade in with 20" of vacuum on the boost-vac gauge!! most all 10-30 will have lower noack but not approved because its a 10W + not a 5W but depending on your local temps a 10 W can do better!!!

Redline Oil with low NOACK is NOT approved oil.
Redline that IS approved is mediocre oil at best.
 
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