- Joined
- Dec 30, 2006
- Messages
- 29,558
Take two different filters,both for the same application. Would the filter with larger and more baseplate holes be better than the one with fewer,smaller baseplate holes?
Baseplate holes vs baseplate holes
- Thread starter aquariuscsm
- Start date
You know, I've been waiting for someone on here to post a question about baseplate holes, and how each mfr decides on the hole configuration of their baseplates.
For example, the Zetec filter
Fram's 8316 has 6 small holes
Champ uses 8 holes, but one is twice the size of the other holes, EXCEPT on the M1-211
The now-discontinued M1-211 used six small holes
Purolator uses elongated oval holes on both the 25230 and 20195
Wix uses six large holes on the 51315
Hastings/Baldwin uses 7 small holes on the B1416/LF483
the Fram 7317 uses a bunch of very large holes (this is a relatively small filter used mainly on Honda and Nissan engines)
The Purolator 14610 uses 8 small holes
Champ uses 6 small holes
Wix uses 8 small holes on the 57356
For example, the Zetec filter
Fram's 8316 has 6 small holes
Champ uses 8 holes, but one is twice the size of the other holes, EXCEPT on the M1-211
The now-discontinued M1-211 used six small holes
Purolator uses elongated oval holes on both the 25230 and 20195
Wix uses six large holes on the 51315
Hastings/Baldwin uses 7 small holes on the B1416/LF483
the Fram 7317 uses a bunch of very large holes (this is a relatively small filter used mainly on Honda and Nissan engines)
The Purolator 14610 uses 8 small holes
Champ uses 6 small holes
Wix uses 8 small holes on the 57356
Originally Posted By: aquariuscsm
Take two different filters,both for the same application. Would the filter with larger and more baseplate holes be better than the one with fewer,smaller baseplate holes?
The more flow area the better to minimize the pressure drop through the base plate.
But the difference between base plates is probably less than 1 psi. So as long as there are enough holes and area to minimize delta-p in the first place, adding more flow area isn't really going to result in much gain.
Take two different filters,both for the same application. Would the filter with larger and more baseplate holes be better than the one with fewer,smaller baseplate holes?
The more flow area the better to minimize the pressure drop through the base plate.
But the difference between base plates is probably less than 1 psi. So as long as there are enough holes and area to minimize delta-p in the first place, adding more flow area isn't really going to result in much gain.
Topic has been discussed before, imo and in my observation mostly as a halo effect observation. By that I mean one appears to favor/like a particular brand first and then notes more and/or larger inlet holes for that brand of choice. Or conversely dislikes another brand and notes smaller and/or less inlet holes.
My thought after reading this board for many years, as long as the total area of the inlet holes is at least equal to the area of the inner diameter of the filter mounting stud then plenty of flow, ie, flow not an issue. I trust the manufacturers have taken that into considering when designing the filter and get it right.
Best example in personal use, Wix/NG for most Hondas used to be the 5/1356 (still made), has very large holes. Then Wix went to a new baseplate design for several applications including Honda, now it's the 5/7356. The latter application has smaller holes but I'm confident it meets the criteria noted above. So selecting a filter by inlet hole shape, size or number a pointless exercise imo. My .02
My thought after reading this board for many years, as long as the total area of the inlet holes is at least equal to the area of the inner diameter of the filter mounting stud then plenty of flow, ie, flow not an issue. I trust the manufacturers have taken that into considering when designing the filter and get it right.
Best example in personal use, Wix/NG for most Hondas used to be the 5/1356 (still made), has very large holes. Then Wix went to a new baseplate design for several applications including Honda, now it's the 5/7356. The latter application has smaller holes but I'm confident it meets the criteria noted above. So selecting a filter by inlet hole shape, size or number a pointless exercise imo. My .02
- Joined
- Sep 26, 2010
- Messages
- 9,807
We discussed this a bit back in 2016:
Originally Posted By: 2015_PSD
I was curious about this situation too with regards to the holes in a MC FL-820s versus a FRAM Ultra XG2 (Ford Modular Engines). Although the FRAM inlet holes were smaller (but more of them), they still flowed more than the outlet. You should perform a calculation to see if the same applies to the XG5:
Baseplate Flow Calculation:
FL-820s Baseplate:
FRAM Ultra XG2 Baseplate:
Originally Posted By: 2015_PSD
I was curious about this situation too with regards to the holes in a MC FL-820s versus a FRAM Ultra XG2 (Ford Modular Engines). Although the FRAM inlet holes were smaller (but more of them), they still flowed more than the outlet. You should perform a calculation to see if the same applies to the XG5:
Baseplate Flow Calculation:
FL-820s Baseplate:
FRAM Ultra XG2 Baseplate:
As long as the baseplate holes have a larger area than the hole in the pipe it won't matter how big they are
If the oil pump is mechanical single speed the flow is essentially the same. Picture a 1 inch pipe going to a 3 inch, then back to a 1/4 inch. Pressures rise and fall at each pipe size, but flow is the same. No one has yet explained why some Fram larger filters have 8 smaller holes while the smaller filters have 10 larger holes. May be just due to manufacturing ease or something.
The same total hole flow area on a small filter base is going to make it look more "swiss cheesed" than on a large filter base.
A designer would want enough total hole flow area to ensure minimal delta-p across the base plate, while also leaving enough material to ensure structural strength without "swiss cheesing" the base plate too much.
A designer would want enough total hole flow area to ensure minimal delta-p across the base plate, while also leaving enough material to ensure structural strength without "swiss cheesing" the base plate too much.
The delta-p difference through those two base plates under the same flow conditions would be pretty small and insignificant.
Are those two base plates the same thickness? If the larger base plate is thinner material, they wouldn't want to swiss cheese it as much as the smaller filter.
Are those two base plates the same thickness? If the larger base plate is thinner material, they wouldn't want to swiss cheese it as much as the smaller filter.
- Joined
- Dec 30, 2006
- Messages
- 29,558
For example,the Mobil 1 filter for my Accord has 6 tiny baseplate holes while the Fram TG has 10 huge baseplate holes.
The German Mann filters only have 4 medium sized holes.
https://shop.advanceautoparts.com/p/mann-hummel-oil-filter-w-930-21/99998142-P
https://shop.advanceautoparts.com/p/mann-hummel-oil-filter-w-930-21/99998142-P
Last edited:
I am pretty sure the number and size of holes in the baseplate does not matter. This is not the restricting element in the oiling system. Yes the holes do impede flow a small amount, but the filter media and the oil flow through the journals will provide much more resistance. Consider that a bypass valve (if equipped) allows the canister to pressurize before it opens, and this pressure will be far greater than any restriction caused by the baseplate holes. Also, consider typical pressures of an automotive oil pump, and these baseplate holes quickly become negligible. As to the rhyme and reason for filter manufacturers using one hole pattern over another, larger holes or smaller holes... I have no idea. As long as the baseplate is not weakened by too many holes or thin metal (the gasket needs to be held firmly to the block).
Originally Posted By: DGXR
Consider that a bypass valve (if equipped) allows the canister to pressurize before it opens, and this pressure will be far greater than any restriction caused by the baseplate holes. Also, consider typical pressures of an automotive oil pump, and these baseplate holes quickly become negligible.
The oil pressure inside the can and the pressure drop across holes or media are two different things. The pressure drop is dependent on the oil flow through a restriction. The bypass valve operated on delta-p. The pressure seen inside the can is dependent on the system restriction down stream of the filter's inlet (ie, the engine and also the filter itself) and the max pressure relief valve setting on the oil pump.
Consider that a bypass valve (if equipped) allows the canister to pressurize before it opens, and this pressure will be far greater than any restriction caused by the baseplate holes. Also, consider typical pressures of an automotive oil pump, and these baseplate holes quickly become negligible.
The oil pressure inside the can and the pressure drop across holes or media are two different things. The pressure drop is dependent on the oil flow through a restriction. The bypass valve operated on delta-p. The pressure seen inside the can is dependent on the system restriction down stream of the filter's inlet (ie, the engine and also the filter itself) and the max pressure relief valve setting on the oil pump.
A long time ago, the Fram PH3600 and PH2870A had the same base plate but different relief pressures, and at least one other filter maker, AC Delco, used the PF-56 for both. Then Fram changed the PH2870A, both the shape of the base plate (to be like the ones goodtimes posted) and the number and size of holes. Why would they make those changes if they didn't think it mattered, especially because they didn't advertise it?
Originally Posted By: ZeeOSix
Originally Posted By: DGXR
Consider that a bypass valve (if equipped) allows the canister to pressurize before it opens, and this pressure will be far greater than any restriction caused by the baseplate holes. Also, consider typical pressures of an automotive oil pump, and these baseplate holes quickly become negligible.
The oil pressure inside the can and the pressure drop across holes or media are two different things. The pressure drop is dependent on the oil flow through a restriction. The bypass valve operated on delta-p. The pressure seen inside the can is dependent on the system restriction down stream of the filter's inlet (ie, the engine and also the filter itself) and the max pressure relief valve setting on the oil pump.
OK, but... can an oil filter's baseplate holes cause any meaningful restriction to oil flow? I mean, in an average consumer's gasoline engine vehicle?
Originally Posted By: larrymoencurly
A long time ago, the Fram PH3600 and PH2870A had the same base plate but different relief pressures, and at least one other filter maker, AC Delco, used the PF-56 for both. Then Fram changed the PH2870A, both the shape of the base plate (to be like the ones goodtimes posted) and the number and size of holes. Why would they make those changes if they didn't think it mattered, especially because they didn't advertise it?
I could speculate many reasons why they would change the pattern of holes, none related to oil flow.
-- cost savings during retooling of production equipment (different dies cost less)
-- increased strength of baseplate with new hole pattern
-- use of less material (steel) with new hole pattern
-- easier to distinguish filter manufacturer at quick glance
etc
Originally Posted By: DGXR
Consider that a bypass valve (if equipped) allows the canister to pressurize before it opens, and this pressure will be far greater than any restriction caused by the baseplate holes. Also, consider typical pressures of an automotive oil pump, and these baseplate holes quickly become negligible.
The oil pressure inside the can and the pressure drop across holes or media are two different things. The pressure drop is dependent on the oil flow through a restriction. The bypass valve operated on delta-p. The pressure seen inside the can is dependent on the system restriction down stream of the filter's inlet (ie, the engine and also the filter itself) and the max pressure relief valve setting on the oil pump.
OK, but... can an oil filter's baseplate holes cause any meaningful restriction to oil flow? I mean, in an average consumer's gasoline engine vehicle?
Originally Posted By: larrymoencurly
A long time ago, the Fram PH3600 and PH2870A had the same base plate but different relief pressures, and at least one other filter maker, AC Delco, used the PF-56 for both. Then Fram changed the PH2870A, both the shape of the base plate (to be like the ones goodtimes posted) and the number and size of holes. Why would they make those changes if they didn't think it mattered, especially because they didn't advertise it?
I could speculate many reasons why they would change the pattern of holes, none related to oil flow.
-- cost savings during retooling of production equipment (different dies cost less)
-- increased strength of baseplate with new hole pattern
-- use of less material (steel) with new hole pattern
-- easier to distinguish filter manufacturer at quick glance
etc
Originally Posted By: DGXR
Originally Posted By: ZeeOSix
Originally Posted By: DGXR
Consider that a bypass valve (if equipped) allows the canister to pressurize before it opens, and this pressure will be far greater than any restriction caused by the baseplate holes. Also, consider typical pressures of an automotive oil pump, and these baseplate holes quickly become negligible.
The oil pressure inside the can and the pressure drop across holes or media are two different things. The pressure drop is dependent on the oil flow through a restriction. The bypass valve operated on delta-p. The pressure seen inside the can is dependent on the system restriction down stream of the filter's inlet (ie, the engine and also the filter itself) and the max pressure relief valve setting on the oil pump.
OK, but... can an oil filter's baseplate holes cause any meaningful restriction to oil flow? I mean, in an average consumer's gasoline engine vehicle?
Sure, but the total flow area of the base plate holes would have to be much less (like half or more) than the area of the filter mount inlet hole to the engine. The media typically contributes most to the delta-p across an oil filter.
Originally Posted By: ZeeOSix
Originally Posted By: DGXR
Consider that a bypass valve (if equipped) allows the canister to pressurize before it opens, and this pressure will be far greater than any restriction caused by the baseplate holes. Also, consider typical pressures of an automotive oil pump, and these baseplate holes quickly become negligible.
The oil pressure inside the can and the pressure drop across holes or media are two different things. The pressure drop is dependent on the oil flow through a restriction. The bypass valve operated on delta-p. The pressure seen inside the can is dependent on the system restriction down stream of the filter's inlet (ie, the engine and also the filter itself) and the max pressure relief valve setting on the oil pump.
OK, but... can an oil filter's baseplate holes cause any meaningful restriction to oil flow? I mean, in an average consumer's gasoline engine vehicle?
Sure, but the total flow area of the base plate holes would have to be much less (like half or more) than the area of the filter mount inlet hole to the engine. The media typically contributes most to the delta-p across an oil filter.
I’m bumping this old thread for this:
A Fram XG9100 vs an AcDelco PF2232. Is there any reason to think that a Fram Ultra would be restrictive on my 2017 L5P Duramax? The PF2232 and XG9100 have the same number of baseplate holes but the Fram’s are noticeably smaller.
www.duramaxforum.com
www.trucktrend.com
A Fram XG9100 vs an AcDelco PF2232. Is there any reason to think that a Fram Ultra would be restrictive on my 2017 L5P Duramax? The PF2232 and XG9100 have the same number of baseplate holes but the Fram’s are noticeably smaller.
The D-Max 2019 Oil Filter Shootout
www.duramaxforum.com
A Peek Inside the Duramax L5P
We Dismantle the new Duramax L5P engine to See What Makes It Tick and give a comparison to a Duramax LMM engine.
www.trucktrend.com
