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#4810121 - 07/10/18 11:28 AM Volvo GDI cleaning is this correct?
tempnexus Offline


Registered: 02/11/16
Posts: 79
Loc: NM
If I follow these instructions then will it actually do anything to the GDI valves in terms of cleaning them? Or is it just a hogwash?

http://knowhow.napaonline.com/how-to-use-crc-gdi-intake-valve-cleaner/

Basically I want to keep my Volvo GDI fuel system clean w/o the need to walnut blast it. currently the car has 30k miles on it.

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#4810164 - 07/10/18 11:54 AM Re: Volvo GDI cleaning is this correct? [Re: tempnexus]
Virtus_Probi Offline


Registered: 06/25/15
Posts: 4068
Loc: New England
I had bad luck with this product in my FXT, probably partly due to the physical configuration of the car and partly due to my own ineptitude.
Some folks at subaruforester.org told me that getting to the throttle body would be a lot of work for my engine, so I tried to spray it past the MAF sensor through the open air box. The intake path took a sharp turn just past the MAF and I think some cleaner kicked back onto the sensor, which I had to clean after finding that my car was running poorly.
I also suspect that some cleaner pooled up somewhere in the intake path, as I had a very unpleasant experience after letting the car soak for an hour and heading out for the spirited, high speed drive. My driveway is long and steep up to the road and my car hesistated severely twice right after I turned out of it...both were accompanied by a nasty sound that I could best describe as similar to a handful of ball bearings being thrown into a coffee can. I feel like I was pretty lucky my car didn't appear to be damaged after that...

I ended up buying a special tool from Subaru that allows their own cleaners (they have two and they smell a lot different, one is petrochemically and the other is like strong bleach) to be introduced in atomized form through a vacuum line. The process of using these has its own quirks (they recommend to introduce 1/3 of a bottle at a time, but it's really hard to tell how much is left at any given point), but I like them a lot more than the CRC product.
_________________________
2014 Forester XT, 86000 miles
Last Change;
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#4810169 - 07/10/18 11:58 AM Re: Volvo GDI cleaning is this correct? [Re: tempnexus]
CT8 Offline


Registered: 10/09/14
Posts: 11245
Loc: Idaho
As I usually ask,is there really a problem?
_________________________
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#4810192 - 07/10/18 12:13 PM Re: Volvo GDI cleaning is this correct? [Re: CT8]
novadude Offline


Registered: 01/16/03
Posts: 1479
Loc: Shippensburg, PA
Originally Posted By: CT8
As I usually ask,is there really a problem?


I'm with you. If there are no noticeable performance issues, this is a solution looking for a problem. The downside if something goes wrong (see post above) likely outweighs any benefit.

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#4810221 - 07/10/18 12:29 PM Re: Volvo GDI cleaning is this correct? [Re: tempnexus]
Drew99GT Offline


Registered: 10/11/02
Posts: 22148
Loc: Colorado Springs
I'd find a vacuum line, like the PCV line, and spray in there. You can put duck tape over the line and poke a hole for the straw, then plug the other end of the line so there isn't a massive air leak and the car will run smother while you spray.

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#4810252 - 07/10/18 12:44 PM Re: Volvo GDI cleaning is this correct? [Re: novadude]
tempnexus Offline


Registered: 02/11/16
Posts: 79
Loc: NM
True but what about maintenance? Why put off maintenance until problem rears it's ugly head? Why is everyone soo into "is there a problem?" but then when the problem does occur everyone says: "Well then take it to the mechanic since a mechanic in a can won't fix it." Ok so based on that...it's do nothing until it breaks and then go to the mechanic. But what about maintenance of the system, take care of it and it will take care of you? For example, why do people with high cholesterol take statins if they didn't suffer from heart attack yet? I mean there is no problem, the heart attack didn't occur but yet we take statins to prevent further buildup?

The same goes for the car, why put off maintenance, cleaning the intake system until it's bad enough to loose compression or cause misfires? Why not maintain a clean intake system? Since once carbon starts then it will cause more carbon buildup (since now carbon has nucleation sites to deposit on).

Just my opinion, and hence I am asking for help in maintaining the system and not fixing the problem (there is no fix).

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#4810253 - 07/10/18 12:45 PM Re: Volvo GDI cleaning is this correct? [Re: Drew99GT]
tempnexus Offline


Registered: 02/11/16
Posts: 79
Loc: NM
Originally Posted By: Drew99GT
I'd find a vacuum line, like the PCV line, and spray in there. You can put duck tape over the line and poke a hole for the straw, then plug the other end of the line so there isn't a massive air leak and the car will run smother while you spray.



Yeah but will it actually clean the valves or will it just create a smoke screen show whilst accomplishing nothing beyond fouling the O2 sensors?


Edited by tempnexus (07/10/18 12:46 PM)

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#4810261 - 07/10/18 12:53 PM Re: Volvo GDI cleaning is this correct? [Re: tempnexus]
Drew99GT Offline


Registered: 10/11/02
Posts: 22148
Loc: Colorado Springs
I mean, if anything will clean the valves via the induction method, it's gonna be CRC. It's got a high dose of PEA.

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#4810264 - 07/10/18 12:57 PM Re: Volvo GDI cleaning is this correct? [Re: tempnexus]
Virtus_Probi Offline


Registered: 06/25/15
Posts: 4068
Loc: New England
Originally Posted By: tempnexus
Originally Posted By: Drew99GT
I'd find a vacuum line, like the PCV line, and spray in there. You can put duck tape over the line and poke a hole for the straw, then plug the other end of the line so there isn't a massive air leak and the car will run smother while you spray.

Yeah but will it actually clean the valves or will it just create a smoke screen show whilst accomplishing nothing beyond fouling the O2 sensors?

I believe that Trav mentioned O2 sensor issues as well as possible cat clogging as downsides to attempting to clean the intake valves with cleaners introduced through the airbox or a vacuum line...certainly made me think twice about doing it at every OCI as I was considering at one point.


Edited by Virtus_Probi (07/10/18 12:58 PM)
_________________________
2014 Forester XT, 86000 miles
Last Change;
M1 5W30 d1G2
Tokyo Roki 15208AA170 filter

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#4810274 - 07/10/18 01:02 PM Re: Volvo GDI cleaning is this correct? [Re: tempnexus]
rooflessVW Online   content


Registered: 12/24/11
Posts: 4354
Loc: North Carolina
Sprays don't do anything. Only physical cleaning will remove the carbon buildup I've seen.

Wait until there's an issue before you create an issue by trying to solve one that doesn't exist.
_________________________
"Zed's dead baby, Zed's dead."

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#4810280 - 07/10/18 01:08 PM Re: Volvo GDI cleaning is this correct? [Re: tempnexus]
Drew99GT Offline


Registered: 10/11/02
Posts: 22148
Loc: Colorado Springs
This is the only reliable before and after post with CRC I could find where someone actually did it with pics.



"So I got a chance to do the A, B test of the CRC GDI cleaner today in combination with an oil change.

A: Take manifold off, take before photos of valves (potatoes 1 & 2)

Install manifold, spray CRC GDI cleaner according to instructions

B: Take manifold off again, take after photos of valves (potatoes 3 & 4)

Unfortunately, photos came out terrible.

However, I will say that the simple spray on cleaners actually did take a substantial amount of the goop off- but not nearly close to what a proper walnut blast would do.

The mechanism seems to be heat and some kind of strong detergent. After application the intake manifold and associated parts of the engine bay were quite hot. It took over an hour to even partially cool and for me to stop burning my hands in the "after" tear down. I didn't happen to have any of my long Q-tips to swab the valves, but all the nasty stubborn oily deposits in the manifold and throttle body simply wiped away.

Mechanism for delivery: inserting the straw into the boost tube post intercooler, pre throttle body.

Car: stock as stock gets MS3 engine, including EGR no CC.


The verdict: if it's cheap and available, sure, throw a can the car for a regular maintenance. HOWEVER, not a replacement for a yearly walnut cleaning. Or an additional helper to cut down on soaking for walnut blasting."

http://www.mazdaspeedforums.org/forum/f1...399/index3.html

So maybe if you do it enough times, it will actually start making a difference, but the hard baked on deposits will only come off via manually scrubbing with the intake manifold off or walnut blasting.

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#4810322 - 07/10/18 01:53 PM Re: Volvo GDI cleaning is this correct? [Re: Drew99GT]
tempnexus Offline


Registered: 02/11/16
Posts: 79
Loc: NM
Thanks that was very informative!

Well at least it's good to know that it does do something, not much but at least something.

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#4811140 - 07/11/18 10:05 AM Re: Volvo GDI cleaning is this correct? [Re: tempnexus]
novadude Offline


Registered: 01/16/03
Posts: 1479
Loc: Shippensburg, PA
Originally Posted By: tempnexus
True but what about maintenance? Why put off maintenance until problem rears it's ugly head?


If the manufacturer does not believe that this procedure is part of "maintenance", why would you worry about doing it? I'm not suggesting you skip all NECESSARY maintenance, but trying to solve a problem that isn't really a problem (minor deposits on valves) doesn't seem like a great idea, given all the potential issues that the "maintenance" can potentially cause. How can you be sure that these deposits are going to cause a drivability, performance, or other issue? Just cause it doesn't look pretty doesn't mean it will impact the way the engine runs in any way the butt dyno will feel.

Just my opinion, but I think that for MOST engines, the subject of GDI valve deposits are much ado about nothing. There are engine designs where this can be a known problem.

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#4811607 - 07/11/18 05:50 PM Re: Volvo GDI cleaning is this correct? [Re: novadude]
tempnexus Offline


Registered: 02/11/16
Posts: 79
Loc: NM
Originally Posted By: novadude
Originally Posted By: tempnexus
True but what about maintenance? Why put off maintenance until problem rears it's ugly head?


If the manufacturer does not believe that this procedure is part of "maintenance", why would you worry about doing it? I'm not suggesting you skip all NECESSARY maintenance, but trying to solve a problem that isn't really a problem (minor deposits on valves) doesn't seem like a great idea, given all the potential issues that the "maintenance" can potentially cause. How can you be sure that these deposits are going to cause a drivability, performance, or other issue? Just cause it doesn't look pretty doesn't mean it will impact the way the engine runs in any way the butt dyno will feel.

Just my opinion, but I think that for MOST engines, the subject of GDI valve deposits are much ado about nothing. There are engine designs where this can be a known problem.


I would agree with you on all points except the one regarding manufacturer not recommending things. A manufacturer cares only long enough until the warranty lasts after that they would rather have you back in the dealership buying a new car instead of driving one for hundreds of thousands of miles (planned obsolescence). They don't care nor want you to drive you car for 100k+ miles, hence many of the manufacturers have sealed transmissions with "lifetime fluid" and by "lifetime" they mean lifetime of the warranty and not your definition of a "lifetime" of the car. So I am just saying that just because it's not in the maintenance schedule doesn't mean it's not necessary.

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#4812039 - 07/12/18 08:45 AM Re: Volvo GDI cleaning is this correct? [Re: tempnexus]
FlyPenFly Offline


Registered: 08/04/04
Posts: 270
Loc: San Diego
IMO after seeing how thick and heavy valve intake deposits are, there's no way that a solution that stays for less than a second will have any impact. Even with overnight soaking in brake cleaner, it barely makes a dent on these deposits. Fortunately, some of the newer GDI engines use a hybrid port and direct injection system to combat this problem.

Unfortunately, just periodic 60k (or whatever) intervals of walnut blasting is the only real solution when the engine design is pervasive to this. Catch cans don't do anything, well maintained PCV valves don't do much either, and I highly doubt any brief exposure to a mild cleaner that's combustion safe will do anything at all.

Perhaps using low volatility oils in short intervals would help according to that study on the Hyundai engine. But even then, the data is a bit confusing because high ester oils can actually create more deposits too.


Edited by FlyPenFly (07/12/18 08:48 AM)
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