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#4805680 - 07/05/18 10:26 AM marine application
Skedude Offline


Registered: 07/03/18
Posts: 1
Loc: Ma
I've been using TW-C3 2-stroke oil in my jetskis. It seems like JASO FD would be the new alternative, is this correct? Does it matter if I go full synthetic or just the blend?

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#4805699 - 07/05/18 10:43 AM Re: marine application [Re: Skedude]
MichiganMadMan Offline


Registered: 07/18/11
Posts: 257
Loc: SE Michigan
TCW-3 is really for outboards only, I'm not sure how it became the "universal" 2-stroke oil.
JASO FD is meant for higher RPM, hotter running stuff that changes throttle position and RPM frequently. (i.e.: Your jetski)

The synthetic blend versus full synthetic is up to you. Both will meet the standard. How much they "better" they are likely depends on the marketing department at the individual companies.

I run TCW-3 in my outboard and JASO FD Sea and Snow, Redmax, Stihl, Husqvarna, Echo (whatever is on sale) oil in everything else like my mower, leaf blower, weed whipper, chain saws, brush cutter. I just make sure it has the JASO FD seal on the bottle somewhere and I'm good to go.
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2011 Jonsered 2188 Chainsaw-The Judge.

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#4805702 - 07/05/18 10:46 AM Re: marine application [Re: Skedude]
maxdustington Offline


Registered: 01/21/17
Posts: 847
Loc: Toronna
TCW3 is for marine applications, JASO FD is for motorcycles.

Marine engines run cooler, amongst other things I cannot recall so the oil specs are different

It does not really matter synth, dino or blend. Whatever is cheaper, your jet skis will live a long life on supertech TCW3
_________________________
03 Jetta AWP/09A 200k kms
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#4805723 - 07/05/18 11:26 AM Re: marine application [Re: Skedude]
beanoil Offline


Registered: 10/17/04
Posts: 2993
Loc: Midwest, Illinois
What does your ski require?
TCW-3 and FD are not the same specification.
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#4805778 - 07/05/18 12:16 PM Re: marine application [Re: Skedude]
Tman220 Offline


Registered: 09/20/16
Posts: 153
Loc: MN
TCW3 is supposed to run in all marine applications. Part of the TCW3 spec is NO ASH, and it also needs to have a degree of biodegradability, all in the name of pollution control. Also since Marine engines tend to be lower RPM lower performance, NO ASH oil is desired because the temps to keep combustion chambers and power valves free of soot are just not there.
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#4805815 - 07/05/18 12:45 PM Re: marine application [Re: Tman220]
Johnny2Bad Offline


Registered: 05/20/13
Posts: 1879
Loc: Saskatchewan, Canada
Originally Posted By: Tman220
TCW3 is supposed to run in all marine applications. Part of the TCW3 spec is NO ASH, and it also needs to have a degree of biodegradability, all in the name of pollution control. Also since Marine engines tend to be lower RPM lower performance, NO ASH oil is desired because the temps to keep combustion chambers and power valves free of soot are just not there.


6000 [current Yamaha 90 4-stroke] is "lower RPM"? My Merc 2-strokes were 5200 (the Merc 50HP 4-stroke I once ran was 6200).

Which motors are you referring to as "lower RPM lower performance"? Maybe I just have run the exceptions?
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#4805817 - 07/05/18 12:48 PM Re: marine application [Re: Johnny2Bad]
Driz Offline


Registered: 09/23/07
Posts: 284
Loc: northern NY
Originally Posted By: Johnny2Bad
Originally Posted By: Tman220
TCW3 is supposed to run in all marine applications. Part of the TCW3 spec is NO ASH, and it also needs to have a degree of biodegradability, all in the name of pollution control. Also since Marine engines tend to be lower RPM lower performance, NO ASH oil is desired because the temps to keep combustion chambers and power valves free of soot are just not there.


6000 [current Yamaha 90 4-stroke] is "lower RPM"? My Merc 2-strokes were 5200 (the Merc 50HP 4-stroke I once ran was 6200).


I was thinking the same thing.......

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#4805838 - 07/05/18 01:03 PM Re: marine application [Re: Driz]
Rand Offline


Registered: 08/20/03
Posts: 12721
Loc: NE,Ohio
Originally Posted By: Driz
Originally Posted By: Johnny2Bad
Originally Posted By: Tman220
TCW3 is supposed to run in all marine applications. Part of the TCW3 spec is NO ASH, and it also needs to have a degree of biodegradability, all in the name of pollution control. Also since Marine engines tend to be lower RPM lower performance, NO ASH oil is desired because the temps to keep combustion chambers and power valves free of soot are just not there.


6000 [current Yamaha 90 4-stroke] is "lower RPM"? My Merc 2-strokes were 5200 (the Merc 50HP 4-stroke I once ran was 6200).


I was thinking the same thing.......


vs a 12000rpm air cooled chainsaw a water cooled outboard is lower rpm and cooler.
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#4805860 - 07/05/18 01:26 PM Re: marine application [Re: Tman220]
MotoTribologist Offline


Registered: 02/03/16
Posts: 576
Loc: NJ, USA
Originally Posted By: Tman220
TCW3 is supposed to run in all marine applications. Part of the TCW3 spec is NO ASH, and it also needs to have a degree of biodegradability, all in the name of pollution control. Also since Marine engines tend to be lower RPM lower performance, NO ASH oil is desired because the temps to keep combustion chambers and power valves free of soot are just not there.

Just FYI, I don't believe there is any requirement for biodegradability of TC-W3 oils. Here are the manuals from the NMMA for all of the certification requirements:

TC-W3 Rating Manual
TC-W3 Product Approval System
TC-W3 Certification Test Manual

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#4805870 - 07/05/18 01:39 PM Re: marine application [Re: Johnny2Bad]
maxdustington Offline


Registered: 01/21/17
Posts: 847
Loc: Toronna
Originally Posted By: Johnny2Bad
Originally Posted By: Tman220
TCW3 is supposed to run in all marine applications. Part of the TCW3 spec is NO ASH, and it also needs to have a degree of biodegradability, all in the name of pollution control. Also since Marine engines tend to be lower RPM lower performance, NO ASH oil is desired because the temps to keep combustion chambers and power valves free of soot are just not there.


6000 [current Yamaha 90 4-stroke] is "lower RPM"? My Merc 2-strokes were 5200 (the Merc 50HP 4-stroke I once ran was 6200).

Which motors are you referring to as "lower RPM lower performance"? Maybe I just have run the exceptions?

When your 4T motors rev higher than your 2T, that should be your first clue.
_________________________
03 Jetta AWP/09A 200k kms
Edge 0W40 + Mann 719/30

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#4806007 - 07/05/18 03:52 PM Re: marine application [Re: maxdustington]
Snagglefoot Online   content


Registered: 12/31/17
Posts: 1905
Loc: SE British Columbia, Canada
Originally Posted By: maxdustington
TCW3 is for marine applications, JASO FD is for motorcycles.

Marine engines run cooler, amongst other things I cannot recall so the oil specs are different

It does not really matter synth, dino or blend. Whatever is cheaper, your jet skis will live a long life on supertech TCW3


TCW3 also leaves an anti corrosion layer on the cylinder walls.

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#4806059 - 07/05/18 05:14 PM Re: marine application [Re: MotoTribologist]
Tman220 Offline


Registered: 09/20/16
Posts: 153
Loc: MN
Originally Posted By: MotoTribologist
Originally Posted By: Tman220
TCW3 is supposed to run in all marine applications. Part of the TCW3 spec is NO ASH, and it also needs to have a degree of biodegradability, all in the name of pollution control. Also since Marine engines tend to be lower RPM lower performance, NO ASH oil is desired because the temps to keep combustion chambers and power valves free of soot are just not there.

Just FYI, I don't believe there is any requirement for biodegradability of TC-W3 oils. Here are the manuals from the NMMA for all of the certification requirements:

TC-W3 Rating Manual
TC-W3 Product Approval System
TC-W3 Certification Test Manual


Yes, you are correct, I thought I remember reading something about biodegradability long ago but after brushing up on those specs, that is not the case.
_________________________
2012 Regal GS Turbo PP 5w30
1994 Camaro Z28 LT1 355 CI, 430 RWHP PP 5W30

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#4806065 - 07/05/18 05:25 PM Re: marine application [Re: Johnny2Bad]
Tman220 Offline


Registered: 09/20/16
Posts: 153
Loc: MN
Originally Posted By: Johnny2Bad
Originally Posted By: Tman220
TCW3 is supposed to run in all marine applications. Part of the TCW3 spec is NO ASH, and it also needs to have a degree of biodegradability, all in the name of pollution control. Also since Marine engines tend to be lower RPM lower performance, NO ASH oil is desired because the temps to keep combustion chambers and power valves free of soot are just not there.


6000 [current Yamaha 90 4-stroke] is "lower RPM"? My Merc 2-strokes were 5200 (the Merc 50HP 4-stroke I once ran was 6200).

Which motors are you referring to as "lower RPM lower performance"? Maybe I just have run the exceptions?


One type of engine where a Jaso FD spec is specified is a snowmobile engine. This type of engine I would consider a high performance, high RPM, high heat application compared to an outboard or a 2 stroke PWC. As a comparison it is typical for a 700 CC 2 cylinder, two stoke snowmobile engine to make about 140 hp. This horsepower is made around 7800 RPM. As a comparison, my 60 HP 3 cylinder yamaha outboard displaces 850 CC's. That 60 hp is made at 5000 RPM. These are wildly different numbers from engines with wildly different performance requirements. It shoudn't be surprising that they require different lube specifications.


Edited by Tman220 (07/05/18 05:27 PM)
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2012 Regal GS Turbo PP 5w30
1994 Camaro Z28 LT1 355 CI, 430 RWHP PP 5W30

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