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marine application #4805680
07/05/18 09:26 AM
07/05/18 09:26 AM
Joined: Jul 2018
Posts: 1
Ma
Skedude Offline OP
Skedude  Offline OP
Joined: Jul 2018
Posts: 1
Ma
I've been using TW-C3 2-stroke oil in my jetskis. It seems like JASO FD would be the new alternative, is this correct? Does it matter if I go full synthetic or just the blend?

Re: marine application [Re: Skedude] #4805699
07/05/18 09:43 AM
07/05/18 09:43 AM
Joined: Jul 2011
Posts: 260
SE Michigan
MichiganMadMan Offline
MichiganMadMan  Offline
Joined: Jul 2011
Posts: 260
SE Michigan
TCW-3 is really for outboards only, I'm not sure how it became the "universal" 2-stroke oil.
JASO FD is meant for higher RPM, hotter running stuff that changes throttle position and RPM frequently. (i.e.: Your jetski)

The synthetic blend versus full synthetic is up to you. Both will meet the standard. How much they "better" they are likely depends on the marketing department at the individual companies.

I run TCW-3 in my outboard and JASO FD Sea and Snow, Redmax, Stihl, Husqvarna, Echo (whatever is on sale) oil in everything else like my mower, leaf blower, weed whipper, chain saws, brush cutter. I just make sure it has the JASO FD seal on the bottle somewhere and I'm good to go.


2015 Chevrolet Impala
2008 Subaru Impreza STI
2004 Suzuki Hayabusa
1987 Honda VFR700F2
2011 Jonsered 2188 Chainsaw-The Judge.
Re: marine application [Re: Skedude] #4805702
07/05/18 09:46 AM
07/05/18 09:46 AM
Joined: Jan 2017
Posts: 1,961
VW Fanboy Island
maxdustington Offline
maxdustington  Offline
Joined: Jan 2017
Posts: 1,961
VW Fanboy Island
TCW3 is for marine applications, JASO FD is for motorcycles.

Marine engines run cooler, amongst other things I cannot recall so the oil specs are different

It does not really matter synth, dino or blend. Whatever is cheaper, your jet skis will live a long life on supertech TCW3


03 Jetta AWP/09A 205k kms
Edge 0W40 + Mann 719/30
Re: marine application [Re: Skedude] #4805723
07/05/18 10:26 AM
07/05/18 10:26 AM
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 3,181
Midwest, Illinois
beanoil Offline
beanoil  Offline
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 3,181
Midwest, Illinois
What does your ski require?
TCW-3 and FD are not the same specification.


beanoil: Tough under heat, real dirty afterwards.
Re: marine application [Re: Skedude] #4805778
07/05/18 11:16 AM
07/05/18 11:16 AM
Joined: Sep 2016
Posts: 163
MN
Tman220 Offline
Tman220  Offline
Joined: Sep 2016
Posts: 163
MN
TCW3 is supposed to run in all marine applications. Part of the TCW3 spec is NO ASH, and it also needs to have a degree of biodegradability, all in the name of pollution control. Also since Marine engines tend to be lower RPM lower performance, NO ASH oil is desired because the temps to keep combustion chambers and power valves free of soot are just not there.


2012 Regal GS Turbo PP 5w30
1994 Camaro Z28 LT1 355 CI, 430 RWHP PP 5W30
Re: marine application [Re: Tman220] #4805815
07/05/18 11:45 AM
07/05/18 11:45 AM
Joined: May 2013
Posts: 2,160
Saskatchewan, Canada
Johnny2Bad Offline
Johnny2Bad  Offline
Joined: May 2013
Posts: 2,160
Saskatchewan, Canada
Originally Posted By: Tman220
TCW3 is supposed to run in all marine applications. Part of the TCW3 spec is NO ASH, and it also needs to have a degree of biodegradability, all in the name of pollution control. Also since Marine engines tend to be lower RPM lower performance, NO ASH oil is desired because the temps to keep combustion chambers and power valves free of soot are just not there.


6000 [current Yamaha 90 4-stroke] is "lower RPM"? My Merc 2-strokes were 5200 (the Merc 50HP 4-stroke I once ran was 6200).

Which motors are you referring to as "lower RPM lower performance"? Maybe I just have run the exceptions?


'57 FL Straight 50 wt
'90 Miata 1.8L w/Rotrex Supercharger [Mobil1 0W-40]
'96 Ram 1500 [3.7L Mobil1 0W-20 / 1L 15W-50]
'01 PT Cruiser [Mobil1 0W-40]
Re: marine application [Re: Johnny2Bad] #4805817
07/05/18 11:48 AM
07/05/18 11:48 AM
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 344
northern NY
Driz Offline
Driz  Offline
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 344
northern NY
Originally Posted By: Johnny2Bad
Originally Posted By: Tman220
TCW3 is supposed to run in all marine applications. Part of the TCW3 spec is NO ASH, and it also needs to have a degree of biodegradability, all in the name of pollution control. Also since Marine engines tend to be lower RPM lower performance, NO ASH oil is desired because the temps to keep combustion chambers and power valves free of soot are just not there.


6000 [current Yamaha 90 4-stroke] is "lower RPM"? My Merc 2-strokes were 5200 (the Merc 50HP 4-stroke I once ran was 6200).


I was thinking the same thing.......

Re: marine application [Re: Driz] #4805838
07/05/18 12:03 PM
07/05/18 12:03 PM
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 13,137
NE,Ohio
Rand Offline
Rand  Offline
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 13,137
NE,Ohio
Originally Posted By: Driz
Originally Posted By: Johnny2Bad
Originally Posted By: Tman220
TCW3 is supposed to run in all marine applications. Part of the TCW3 spec is NO ASH, and it also needs to have a degree of biodegradability, all in the name of pollution control. Also since Marine engines tend to be lower RPM lower performance, NO ASH oil is desired because the temps to keep combustion chambers and power valves free of soot are just not there.


6000 [current Yamaha 90 4-stroke] is "lower RPM"? My Merc 2-strokes were 5200 (the Merc 50HP 4-stroke I once ran was 6200).


I was thinking the same thing.......


vs a 12000rpm air cooled chainsaw a water cooled outboard is lower rpm and cooler.


2019 Jeep Cherokee Trailhawk 2.0T
Re: marine application [Re: Tman220] #4805860
07/05/18 12:26 PM
07/05/18 12:26 PM
Joined: Feb 2016
Posts: 686
NJ, USA
MotoTribologist Offline
MotoTribologist  Offline
Joined: Feb 2016
Posts: 686
NJ, USA
Originally Posted By: Tman220
TCW3 is supposed to run in all marine applications. Part of the TCW3 spec is NO ASH, and it also needs to have a degree of biodegradability, all in the name of pollution control. Also since Marine engines tend to be lower RPM lower performance, NO ASH oil is desired because the temps to keep combustion chambers and power valves free of soot are just not there.

Just FYI, I don't believe there is any requirement for biodegradability of TC-W3 oils. Here are the manuals from the NMMA for all of the certification requirements:

TC-W3 Rating Manual
TC-W3 Product Approval System
TC-W3 Certification Test Manual

Re: marine application [Re: Johnny2Bad] #4805870
07/05/18 12:39 PM
07/05/18 12:39 PM
Joined: Jan 2017
Posts: 1,961
VW Fanboy Island
maxdustington Offline
maxdustington  Offline
Joined: Jan 2017
Posts: 1,961
VW Fanboy Island
Originally Posted By: Johnny2Bad
Originally Posted By: Tman220
TCW3 is supposed to run in all marine applications. Part of the TCW3 spec is NO ASH, and it also needs to have a degree of biodegradability, all in the name of pollution control. Also since Marine engines tend to be lower RPM lower performance, NO ASH oil is desired because the temps to keep combustion chambers and power valves free of soot are just not there.


6000 [current Yamaha 90 4-stroke] is "lower RPM"? My Merc 2-strokes were 5200 (the Merc 50HP 4-stroke I once ran was 6200).

Which motors are you referring to as "lower RPM lower performance"? Maybe I just have run the exceptions?

When your 4T motors rev higher than your 2T, that should be your first clue.


03 Jetta AWP/09A 205k kms
Edge 0W40 + Mann 719/30
Re: marine application [Re: maxdustington] #4806007
07/05/18 02:52 PM
07/05/18 02:52 PM
Joined: Dec 2017
Posts: 2,966
SE British Columbia, Canada
Snagglefoot Offline
Snagglefoot  Offline
Joined: Dec 2017
Posts: 2,966
SE British Columbia, Canada
Originally Posted By: maxdustington
TCW3 is for marine applications, JASO FD is for motorcycles.

Marine engines run cooler, amongst other things I cannot recall so the oil specs are different

It does not really matter synth, dino or blend. Whatever is cheaper, your jet skis will live a long life on supertech TCW3


TCW3 also leaves an anti corrosion layer on the cylinder walls.


If you want the job done right......do it yourself.
Re: marine application [Re: MotoTribologist] #4806059
07/05/18 04:14 PM
07/05/18 04:14 PM
Joined: Sep 2016
Posts: 163
MN
Tman220 Offline
Tman220  Offline
Joined: Sep 2016
Posts: 163
MN
Originally Posted By: MotoTribologist
Originally Posted By: Tman220
TCW3 is supposed to run in all marine applications. Part of the TCW3 spec is NO ASH, and it also needs to have a degree of biodegradability, all in the name of pollution control. Also since Marine engines tend to be lower RPM lower performance, NO ASH oil is desired because the temps to keep combustion chambers and power valves free of soot are just not there.

Just FYI, I don't believe there is any requirement for biodegradability of TC-W3 oils. Here are the manuals from the NMMA for all of the certification requirements:

TC-W3 Rating Manual
TC-W3 Product Approval System
TC-W3 Certification Test Manual


Yes, you are correct, I thought I remember reading something about biodegradability long ago but after brushing up on those specs, that is not the case.


2012 Regal GS Turbo PP 5w30
1994 Camaro Z28 LT1 355 CI, 430 RWHP PP 5W30
Re: marine application [Re: Johnny2Bad] #4806065
07/05/18 04:25 PM
07/05/18 04:25 PM
Joined: Sep 2016
Posts: 163
MN
Tman220 Offline
Tman220  Offline
Joined: Sep 2016
Posts: 163
MN
Originally Posted By: Johnny2Bad
Originally Posted By: Tman220
TCW3 is supposed to run in all marine applications. Part of the TCW3 spec is NO ASH, and it also needs to have a degree of biodegradability, all in the name of pollution control. Also since Marine engines tend to be lower RPM lower performance, NO ASH oil is desired because the temps to keep combustion chambers and power valves free of soot are just not there.


6000 [current Yamaha 90 4-stroke] is "lower RPM"? My Merc 2-strokes were 5200 (the Merc 50HP 4-stroke I once ran was 6200).

Which motors are you referring to as "lower RPM lower performance"? Maybe I just have run the exceptions?


One type of engine where a Jaso FD spec is specified is a snowmobile engine. This type of engine I would consider a high performance, high RPM, high heat application compared to an outboard or a 2 stroke PWC. As a comparison it is typical for a 700 CC 2 cylinder, two stoke snowmobile engine to make about 140 hp. This horsepower is made around 7800 RPM. As a comparison, my 60 HP 3 cylinder yamaha outboard displaces 850 CC's. That 60 hp is made at 5000 RPM. These are wildly different numbers from engines with wildly different performance requirements. It shoudn't be surprising that they require different lube specifications.

Last edited by Tman220; 07/05/18 04:27 PM.

2012 Regal GS Turbo PP 5w30
1994 Camaro Z28 LT1 355 CI, 430 RWHP PP 5W30

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