Ditto the oil in Chinese small engines. I occasionally buy one for a beater sprayer or something. First thing to do is get that oil out and some USA oil in. Engines seem to run OK then
Diesel lube in Petrol Engine
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Originally Posted By: BrocLuno
Ditto the oil in Chinese small engines. I occasionally buy one for a beater sprayer or something. First thing to do is get that oil out and some USA oil in. Engines seem to run OK then
They probably do the same here, though probably not with USA oil.
If these PRC oils smell fishy or eggy, that might be due to them using mercaptan or thiol antioxidants, though an oil chemist would have to confirm that as a possibility.
Antioxidants are good things, and I can't see that a smelly oil is necessarily a bad oil, though it may be unacceptable to a sensitive American consumer.
Speculation though. I don't have any knowledge of, or experience with, oil from the PRC.
Ditto the oil in Chinese small engines. I occasionally buy one for a beater sprayer or something. First thing to do is get that oil out and some USA oil in. Engines seem to run OK then
They probably do the same here, though probably not with USA oil.
If these PRC oils smell fishy or eggy, that might be due to them using mercaptan or thiol antioxidants, though an oil chemist would have to confirm that as a possibility.
Antioxidants are good things, and I can't see that a smelly oil is necessarily a bad oil, though it may be unacceptable to a sensitive American consumer.
Speculation though. I don't have any knowledge of, or experience with, oil from the PRC.
Last edited:
Originally Posted By: OilFilters
Originally Posted By: Ducked
So you see a lot of problems cause by China Petroleum Corporation oils in...er...North Carolina?
Yeah...any time I buy something chinese it comes with horrible, horrible remnants of cheap chinese oil. It's stench is unmistakable - like the smell of a harbor...
I understand the trick is to not inhale (Ooo..politics)
Originally Posted By: Ducked
So you see a lot of problems cause by China Petroleum Corporation oils in...er...North Carolina?
Yeah...any time I buy something chinese it comes with horrible, horrible remnants of cheap chinese oil. It's stench is unmistakable - like the smell of a harbor...
I understand the trick is to not inhale (Ooo..politics)
Originally Posted By: Ducked
Originally Posted By: BrocLuno
Ditto the oil in Chinese small engines. I occasionally buy one for a beater sprayer or something. First thing to do is get that oil out and some USA oil in. Engines seem to run OK then
They probably do the same here, though probably not with USA oil.
If these PRC oils smell fishy or eggy, that might be due to them using mercaptan or thiol antioxidants, though an oil chemist would have to confirm that as a possibility.
Likely not heat stable enough. Maybe aromatic amines or phenols?
Originally Posted By: BrocLuno
Ditto the oil in Chinese small engines. I occasionally buy one for a beater sprayer or something. First thing to do is get that oil out and some USA oil in. Engines seem to run OK then
They probably do the same here, though probably not with USA oil.
If these PRC oils smell fishy or eggy, that might be due to them using mercaptan or thiol antioxidants, though an oil chemist would have to confirm that as a possibility.
Likely not heat stable enough. Maybe aromatic amines or phenols?
They are also very dark, and when placed on white paper, are usually "gritty" as in there are particles ...
I want clean golden oil if I can get it
I want clean golden oil if I can get it
Originally Posted By: BrocLuno
They are also very dark, and when placed on white paper, are usually "gritty" as in there are particles ...
I want clean golden oil if I can get it
Gritty is not good but then I understand this is from a newly assembled cheap engine, perhaps without a filter, so some particles would be expected . Dark..hm..colour seems to vary quite a bit with new oil. Dunno to what extent its a quality indicator.
They are also very dark, and when placed on white paper, are usually "gritty" as in there are particles ...
I want clean golden oil if I can get it
Gritty is not good but then I understand this is from a newly assembled cheap engine, perhaps without a filter, so some particles would be expected . Dark..hm..colour seems to vary quite a bit with new oil. Dunno to what extent its a quality indicator.
Yeah, these small engines have no filter. The oil feels like it's partly honey (sticky) and it does not smell good. So dark, gritty, somewhat smelly, and odd feeling on the fingers - gotta go ... Put some name brand USA oil in and it's fine
Those Chonda Predator HF engines really aren't that bad-run them until they blow up, bolt on another one. I have a 13 HP one on my log splitter, Briggs dealer wanted over $1K for a (still China made) new one, the Predator was under $300 (back when HF still let you use coupons on them)!
Here's a Machinery Lubrication article of some relevance
https://www.machinerylubrication.com/Read/28576/comparing-gasoline-diesel-engine-oils
The cat stuff doesn't apply to this car and the cold start stuff (which is in any case viscosity-related rather than C-oil specific) doesn't apply in this climate (Taiwan). That leaves
"When you put this extra additive load in a gasoline engine, the effects can be devastating to performance. The detergent will work as it is designed and try to clean the cylinder walls. This can have an adverse effect on the seal between the rings and liner, resulting in lost compression and efficiency."
Could happen with a coked-up engine I suppose, which mine might be. OTOH I'd think it could unstick piston rings and so perhaps improve performance.
Sounds difficult to predict.
With an engine in good condition (which admittedly mine might NOT be) a dramatic effect on compression seems rather unlikely.
I have, however, read "somewhere" that the over-basing necessary in diesels tends to erode tribofilms in petrol engines, which might lead to higher wear in metal to metal contact areas such as the cam lobes.
I would probably use it (IF I did) blended with CPC SAE 40 which has a base number of around 6, so that would perhaps reduce the effective overbasing of the mixture..
https://www.machinerylubrication.com/Read/28576/comparing-gasoline-diesel-engine-oils
The cat stuff doesn't apply to this car and the cold start stuff (which is in any case viscosity-related rather than C-oil specific) doesn't apply in this climate (Taiwan). That leaves
"When you put this extra additive load in a gasoline engine, the effects can be devastating to performance. The detergent will work as it is designed and try to clean the cylinder walls. This can have an adverse effect on the seal between the rings and liner, resulting in lost compression and efficiency."
Could happen with a coked-up engine I suppose, which mine might be. OTOH I'd think it could unstick piston rings and so perhaps improve performance.
Sounds difficult to predict.
With an engine in good condition (which admittedly mine might NOT be) a dramatic effect on compression seems rather unlikely.
I have, however, read "somewhere" that the over-basing necessary in diesels tends to erode tribofilms in petrol engines, which might lead to higher wear in metal to metal contact areas such as the cam lobes.
I would probably use it (IF I did) blended with CPC SAE 40 which has a base number of around 6, so that would perhaps reduce the effective overbasing of the mixture..
Not likely. Only bought one new car in my life, then realized the folly of payments and depreciation ... Since I now only buy vehicles with at least 100,000 miles, I get all sorts of engine conditions. Every one gets HDEO, and usually a full can of BG109. That ought to "clean the walls" so well the pistons should fall out sideways ...
Never happened. Even upwards of 200,000 miles, they all run as they should and pass SMOG testing so we know how they are running.
Some have been OHC engines. But the really long lived ones that stay around are like my Big Bronco, all old school flat tappet V8's with splash oiled cams and the cams never fail. Have not lost a cam in 50 odd years of doing this and building hot rod engines on the side.
At rebuild time, the cams come out worn as should be expected with high mileage engines. But they are still working and have enough taper on the lobes to still spin the lifters.
As far as overbasing - marine lubes typically have TBN numbers like 12 or 13 when new out of the drum. Lots and lots of old school flat tappet V8's out there in marine service with hotter cams and higher spring pressures that street engines (one source of hot rod cams is marine catalogs), and they don't loose cams either. Most run a full season on one oil change. Some run two seasons.
One thing I have never worried about is a high base number. Residual oil film thickness due to surface tension - yes. I'll worry about that because trucks and boats might sit for a week or more between start-ups. That's enough time to have drain-off. But base number, no not worried about that
Never happened. Even upwards of 200,000 miles, they all run as they should and pass SMOG testing so we know how they are running.
Some have been OHC engines. But the really long lived ones that stay around are like my Big Bronco, all old school flat tappet V8's with splash oiled cams and the cams never fail. Have not lost a cam in 50 odd years of doing this and building hot rod engines on the side.
At rebuild time, the cams come out worn as should be expected with high mileage engines. But they are still working and have enough taper on the lobes to still spin the lifters.
As far as overbasing - marine lubes typically have TBN numbers like 12 or 13 when new out of the drum. Lots and lots of old school flat tappet V8's out there in marine service with hotter cams and higher spring pressures that street engines (one source of hot rod cams is marine catalogs), and they don't loose cams either. Most run a full season on one oil change. Some run two seasons.
One thing I have never worried about is a high base number. Residual oil film thickness due to surface tension - yes. I'll worry about that because trucks and boats might sit for a week or more between start-ups. That's enough time to have drain-off. But base number, no not worried about that
I think i will go back to a HDEO, Delvac MX the next oil change on my Escort, i went with a 10W-40 Syn-blend PCMO this second oil change since i've had it but sounds noisier than with a Dino HDEO, Delvac is supposed to have "trinuclear moly" so i'm excited to see if it makes it quieter, it's also supposed to have over 1300ppm of Zinc which sounds great, TBN of 10, 4.1 HTHS.
Originally Posted By: Ducked
The cat stuff doesn't apply to this car and the cold start stuff (which is in any case viscosity-related rather than C-oil specific) doesn't apply in this climate (Taiwan). That leaves
"When you put this extra additive load in a gasoline engine, the effects can be devastating to performance. The detergent will work as it is designed and try to clean the cylinder walls. This can have an adverse effect on the seal between the rings and liner, resulting in lost compression and efficiency."
Could happen with a coked-up engine I suppose, which mine might be. OTOH I'd think it could unstick piston rings and so perhaps improve performance.
Sounds difficult to predict.
With an engine in good condition (which admittedly mine might NOT be) a dramatic effect on compression seems rather unlikely.
I have, however, read "somewhere" that the over-basing necessary in diesels tends to erode tribofilms in petrol engines, which might lead to higher wear in metal to metal contact areas such as the cam lobes.
I would probably use it (IF I did) blended with CPC SAE 40 which has a base number of around 6, so that would perhaps reduce the effective overbasing of the mixture..
I think you are overthinking it.
Long before manufacturer specific approvals came to light, HDEO was used in many high performance engines across Europe. Although technology has indeed advanced since, the basics pretty much remained the same.
From personal experience, I run Motorcraft Super Duty SAE 15W-40 CJ-4 in my Pajero with a 6G72 3.0L V6. Other than an EGR system, this vehicle is not equipped with emissions equipment, so that puts us on the same boat. What particularly caught my attention with this oil was no API Service approvals, just Commerical, and a label on the back that read "Do not use in gasoline engines equipped with catalysts". After looking up the oil a little more in depth, the calcium, phosphorus, zinc content and viscosity at 100 ºC caught my attention. NOACK wasn't much to write home about, but this is a mineral-based oil after all.
For nearly ten years and over 240,000 km, this engine had run on well respected synthetics such as Mobil 1 0W-40 and German Castrol 0W-40 (later Belgian Castrol 0W-40) to name a few, with 5,000 km drain intervals. Things looked relatively clean under the valve covers, although there was a noticeable (not loud but noticeable if you pay attention) tick coming from two of the hydraulic lash adjusters that would quieten down at higher engine speeds. I thought nothing of it, but I did initially limit my drain intervals to 2,500 km after some observations.
Although the oil maintained a light golden color, crud started appearing on the dipstick. This was why I decided it was in my interest to cut the drain intervals by half, and out of curiosity, I cut open the OE Mitsubishi (Toyo Roki) MD352626 oil filter I was using at the time to find even more crud. The oil appeared to be doing some "cleaning", but what it was cleaning was a mystery.
About 7,500 km and 3 oil changes later, one of the lifters quietened right down and now I only had one ticking. After 12,500 km on this oil and 5 oil changes later, the lifter still made some noise, although at this point, slightly raising idle speed made it go away completely. Unfortunately, it didn't have enough time to run its course before a sudden radiator leak on the highway resulted in overheating.
The heads were pulled off, one of the heads was replaced, and all lifters were now replaced in the process since I was at it. The ticking lifter, an intake valve on cylinder 6 (driver's side near the firewall), now a brand new one, did not go away and turned into a major annoyance. A couple of days later, now really annoyed, I decided to pull the rocker arms off the shaft for close inspection. The oil passages on the shaft and rocker were caked in exactly the same type of crud I saw on the dipstick and in the oil filter. The other ticking lifter, that later quietened down, was the exhaust valve on the same cylinder. Although oil could flow through the shaft circuit and the rocker, there were still signs of crud in there that were really hard to clean off, even with the use of solvents. The crud was literally baked on.
The rocker arms and shafts were replaced, and now the engine is as quiet as a church mouse, however it just proved to me that HDEO certainly has its advantages. I will continue running this oil in this application with 2,500 km drain intervals and a new synthetic media filter every 15,000 km at the 6th oil change. Readily available, priced right and works really well.
The cat stuff doesn't apply to this car and the cold start stuff (which is in any case viscosity-related rather than C-oil specific) doesn't apply in this climate (Taiwan). That leaves
"When you put this extra additive load in a gasoline engine, the effects can be devastating to performance. The detergent will work as it is designed and try to clean the cylinder walls. This can have an adverse effect on the seal between the rings and liner, resulting in lost compression and efficiency."
Could happen with a coked-up engine I suppose, which mine might be. OTOH I'd think it could unstick piston rings and so perhaps improve performance.
Sounds difficult to predict.
With an engine in good condition (which admittedly mine might NOT be) a dramatic effect on compression seems rather unlikely.
I have, however, read "somewhere" that the over-basing necessary in diesels tends to erode tribofilms in petrol engines, which might lead to higher wear in metal to metal contact areas such as the cam lobes.
I would probably use it (IF I did) blended with CPC SAE 40 which has a base number of around 6, so that would perhaps reduce the effective overbasing of the mixture..
I think you are overthinking it.
Long before manufacturer specific approvals came to light, HDEO was used in many high performance engines across Europe. Although technology has indeed advanced since, the basics pretty much remained the same.
From personal experience, I run Motorcraft Super Duty SAE 15W-40 CJ-4 in my Pajero with a 6G72 3.0L V6. Other than an EGR system, this vehicle is not equipped with emissions equipment, so that puts us on the same boat. What particularly caught my attention with this oil was no API Service approvals, just Commerical, and a label on the back that read "Do not use in gasoline engines equipped with catalysts". After looking up the oil a little more in depth, the calcium, phosphorus, zinc content and viscosity at 100 ºC caught my attention. NOACK wasn't much to write home about, but this is a mineral-based oil after all.
For nearly ten years and over 240,000 km, this engine had run on well respected synthetics such as Mobil 1 0W-40 and German Castrol 0W-40 (later Belgian Castrol 0W-40) to name a few, with 5,000 km drain intervals. Things looked relatively clean under the valve covers, although there was a noticeable (not loud but noticeable if you pay attention) tick coming from two of the hydraulic lash adjusters that would quieten down at higher engine speeds. I thought nothing of it, but I did initially limit my drain intervals to 2,500 km after some observations.
Although the oil maintained a light golden color, crud started appearing on the dipstick. This was why I decided it was in my interest to cut the drain intervals by half, and out of curiosity, I cut open the OE Mitsubishi (Toyo Roki) MD352626 oil filter I was using at the time to find even more crud. The oil appeared to be doing some "cleaning", but what it was cleaning was a mystery.
About 7,500 km and 3 oil changes later, one of the lifters quietened right down and now I only had one ticking. After 12,500 km on this oil and 5 oil changes later, the lifter still made some noise, although at this point, slightly raising idle speed made it go away completely. Unfortunately, it didn't have enough time to run its course before a sudden radiator leak on the highway resulted in overheating.
The heads were pulled off, one of the heads was replaced, and all lifters were now replaced in the process since I was at it. The ticking lifter, an intake valve on cylinder 6 (driver's side near the firewall), now a brand new one, did not go away and turned into a major annoyance. A couple of days later, now really annoyed, I decided to pull the rocker arms off the shaft for close inspection. The oil passages on the shaft and rocker were caked in exactly the same type of crud I saw on the dipstick and in the oil filter. The other ticking lifter, that later quietened down, was the exhaust valve on the same cylinder. Although oil could flow through the shaft circuit and the rocker, there were still signs of crud in there that were really hard to clean off, even with the use of solvents. The crud was literally baked on.
The rocker arms and shafts were replaced, and now the engine is as quiet as a church mouse, however it just proved to me that HDEO certainly has its advantages. I will continue running this oil in this application with 2,500 km drain intervals and a new synthetic media filter every 15,000 km at the 6th oil change. Readily available, priced right and works really well.
Nice save for the already overly polluted ocean!
-DB
-DB
Originally Posted By: Silk
a steel 20 litre drum - that's pretty rare these days...must be pretty old. Toss the oil and make it into a rubbish bin.
We still get solvents in steel 20 liter steel drums all the time, although over the past few years VWR has dropped BDH(their "house brand") to 19L and Sigma now ships most things in 18L.
Still, Fisher ships most stuff in 20L, and the other suppliers will supply them if you hunt enough.
One of the research groups got a 20L of diethyl ether the other day. I have to admit that it scared me a bit
. 20L drums typically come "loose" with nothing but a shipping label and packing slip slapped on the side. Sigma over-packs their 18L drums in a box. Seeing a bare drum of ether wasn't something I wanted to handle a lot. The research group actually asked if I would "break" it for them into 4L bottles, although all I could come up with glass and plastic and I don't particularly care for 4L of ether into glass. In 4L quantities, it normally comes in aluminum cans...of course all of that makes grounding for safe transfer a lot easier. They ended up taking the 20L back to their lab.
a steel 20 litre drum - that's pretty rare these days...must be pretty old. Toss the oil and make it into a rubbish bin.
We still get solvents in steel 20 liter steel drums all the time, although over the past few years VWR has dropped BDH(their "house brand") to 19L and Sigma now ships most things in 18L.
Still, Fisher ships most stuff in 20L, and the other suppliers will supply them if you hunt enough.
One of the research groups got a 20L of diethyl ether the other day. I have to admit that it scared me a bit
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