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02 Saab aero oil? #4795398
06/23/18 03:00 PM
06/23/18 03:00 PM
Joined: Jun 2018
Posts: 2
South Carolina
Newuser Offline OP
Newuser  Offline OP
Joined: Jun 2018
Posts: 2
South Carolina
I purchased a clean 02 Saab aero from a family member, for one of my children. I know these years had oil sludge issues, so I had the oil pan removed to check. It was fine, but has been checked and cleaned a few times in its 150k Miles.


My relatives mechanic stated not to use the recommended 0w-40 the manual says and run a turbo diesel oil....


The car is still running perfectly at 150+k miles, should I just stick to using a 5w-40 turbo diesel oil?

Or should I look into something more appropriate? I would like to keep up on this vehicle, and have it last. It looks almost new, shocked the paint and interior has held up so well.

Re: 02 Saab aero oil? [Re: Newuser] #4795412
06/23/18 03:19 PM
06/23/18 03:19 PM
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 9,793
Florida, Cape Coral
Eddie Offline
Eddie  Offline
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 9,793
Florida, Cape Coral
I'd use the oil & filter that got the engine to 150,000 miles. Ed


CX5 Touring 2.5L :-)
Re: 02 Saab aero oil? [Re: Newuser] #4795417
06/23/18 03:29 PM
06/23/18 03:29 PM
Joined: Jul 2013
Posts: 2,207
Outer Banks, NC
NormanBuntz Offline
NormanBuntz  Offline
Joined: Jul 2013
Posts: 2,207
Outer Banks, NC
Welcome. If that mechanic has serviced the Saab for most of its life, and the oil pan was pretty clean, I'd do what he suggests. Sounds like a call for Rotella.


2017 Honda Odyssey SE, 15K
2013 Honda Accord LX, 58K
2007 Honda Ridgeline RTS, 87K
2007 Infiniti M35, 106K
Re: 02 Saab aero oil? [Re: Newuser] #4795441
06/23/18 03:59 PM
06/23/18 03:59 PM
Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 1,753
PA
123Saab Offline
123Saab  Offline
Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 1,753
PA
Shell Rotella T6 5w40 should take it another 150k.

I'd run that with a Bosh filter with 5k intervals. Do a used oil analysis if you feel like it.


Anything can happen
The tallest towers be overturned
Those in high places be daunted
Those overlooked regarded
- Seamus Heaney
Re: 02 Saab aero oil? [Re: Newuser] #4795567
06/23/18 06:03 PM
06/23/18 06:03 PM
Joined: Jun 2018
Posts: 2
South Carolina
Newuser Offline OP
Newuser  Offline OP
Joined: Jun 2018
Posts: 2
South Carolina
Thanks guys!

Re: 02 Saab aero oil? [Re: Newuser] #4795579
06/23/18 06:13 PM
06/23/18 06:13 PM
Joined: Sep 2015
Posts: 5,839
Kalifornia Kollective
BrocLuno Offline
BrocLuno  Offline
Joined: Sep 2015
Posts: 5,839
Kalifornia Kollective
The issue with Saabs of this age is coking the oil pump pick-up tube/screen, which starves teh oil pump and there goes the motor ...

The issue is the CAT is right next to the pan. If the car spends a lot of time in stop-and-go traffic, it will cook the oil right where it should not ... I just sold my '01 2.3T, so I've been through this before ...

You need a synthetic oil to be able to withstand the baking heat w/o coking. Rotella T6 is a fine choice. Worked well for me for 50,000 miles w/o any coking (92 to 142K, at which point I sold it).

Lovely cars. Ride nice and go pretty well.

I went +1 and 65 series tires to get a wee bit more ground clearance and better ride. That turns out to be 1/2" more overall diameter - helped out nicely smile I could have gone one more, but it would have been scraping the inner fender liners (plastic) hard turn and a bump ...

Mine was 5-speed and I drove the snot out of it. Full boost in second gear would have you sailing past all sorts of traffic coming up the on ramp laugh


Formerly in marine engineering. In an earlier life I owned my own petroleum tank truck, and hauled for the majors and independent's.
Re: 02 Saab aero oil? [Re: Newuser] #4796645
06/24/18 08:33 PM
06/24/18 08:33 PM
Joined: Jul 2016
Posts: 177
Albury, NSW
JFAllen Offline
JFAllen  Offline
Joined: Jul 2016
Posts: 177
Albury, NSW
Great to hear you've got a Saab 9-5 Aero. They're great. Couple of points to remeber:

Use a low/Mid SAPS oil that has a HTHS >3.5. Great options are: Any DEXOS-2 or VW504/507 oil. I personally use Shell Helix Ultra 0W30 ECT C2/C3 (VW507/507) or Shell Helix Ultra 5W30 ECT C3 (DEXOS2.) These are marketed as Pennzoil Plat Euro LX and Euro L in the USA/Canada. But any licensed VW504/507 or DEXOS2 oil will be great. Remeber that DEXOS2 is the update to GM-LL-A-025.




But key to it all is to drain the oil cooler each and every oil change!!
This holds ~800mL of oil (~18% of the total oil system volume.) If not drained you'll start you engine with a new sump of oil only to have it polluted with nearly 20% old oil. I personally believe that this is one of the major causes of sludge formation as so much old oil is left in the system if the oil cooler is not drained.

You'll also find that you'll probably get oil burn in the vicinity of 1L per 5000kms/3000miles. That's just a reality of the B235 Engine. Mine was much worse than that when I first got the car, but using the SHU oils and a few oil flushes, that's about what I get (last oil chage was 7500kms, it's getting better) after 35,000kms of ownership (185,000kms total on engine with ~200PSI compression in each cylinder, the motor is in excellent shape and blows not smoke at all.) As a result of this oil burn, it's good to swap out the oil every 5000kms / 3000miles as that's the point where it falls past the Low mark on the dip stick.

This oil burn is also an excellent reason to use Mid/Low SAPS oil as it leaves fewer deposits (sludge/coke) which is important for these engines. All being equal you should expect fuel economy in the 8.0L/100kms (~30mgp) if the motor is in good shape. The fuel economy in mine has also improved on the diet of Helix ultra as I believe it's helped mobilize deposits out of the ring lands and as a result improved ring seal (noting the reduction in oil consumption from earlier.)

My Sump was particularly bad when I first pulled it off. lots and lots of grit (coke,) screen was almost blocked and the base of the pan was coved in a rock hard layer 2-3mm thick of sludge/coke...



The cam cover was also rather nasty, needless to say I cleaned them up to a factory standard. This was at 153,000kms shortly after I bought the car and read up on the problems. I had the sump off a month ago at 185,000kms and having run nothing but Helix Ultra ECT and ensuring the oil cooler was drained each oil change. Sump was absolutely clean. Save a few pieces of coke that no doubt had come loose from being stuck somewhere in the engine over the 32,000kms of travel. No additional build up or even the start of buildup on the oil pan.

Have fun with your Saab, They're great fun, reasonably economical, very comfortable, quiet and reliable if taken care of. Mine's never left me down (Except that time the Direct Ignition Cassette failed and I couldn't start the car... smirk.

Regards
Jordan

Last edited by JFAllen; 06/24/18 08:38 PM.
Re: 02 Saab aero oil? [Re: Newuser] #4798694
06/27/18 10:21 AM
06/27/18 10:21 AM
Joined: Sep 2013
Posts: 10,430
Indiana
dlundblad Offline
dlundblad  Offline
Joined: Sep 2013
Posts: 10,430
Indiana
The mechanic is both wrong and right.

The 0w40 per the manual is an excellent choise, but a 5w40 diesel oil would be just a good. Both are around the same cost when purchased in jugs.

Last edited by dlundblad; 06/27/18 10:21 AM.

03 Jeep WJ 4.0 200k Castrol Edge 10w40 HM Fram XG16
02 Volvo S60 2.4T 177k M1 0w40 Mahle OX149D
97 Chevy Blazer 4.3 149k Rotella T5 10w30 Supertech ST3980

Re: 02 Saab aero oil? [Re: JFAllen] #4798703
06/27/18 10:26 AM
06/27/18 10:26 AM
Joined: Sep 2013
Posts: 10,430
Indiana
dlundblad Offline
dlundblad  Offline
Joined: Sep 2013
Posts: 10,430
Indiana
Originally Posted By: JFAllen
Great to hear you've got a Saab 9-5 Aero. They're great. Couple of points to remeber:

Use a low/Mid SAPS oil that has a HTHS >3.5. Great options are: Any DEXOS-2 or VW504/507 oil. I personally use Shell Helix Ultra 0W30 ECT C2/C3 (VW507/507) or Shell Helix Ultra 5W30 ECT C3 (DEXOS2.) These are marketed as Pennzoil Plat Euro LX and Euro L in the USA/Canada. But any licensed VW504/507 or DEXOS2 oil will be great. Remeber that DEXOS2 is the update to GM-LL-A-025.




But key to it all is to drain the oil cooler each and every oil change!!
This holds ~800mL of oil (~18% of the total oil system volume.) If not drained you'll start you engine with a new sump of oil only to have it polluted with nearly 20% old oil. I personally believe that this is one of the major causes of sludge formation as so much old oil is left in the system if the oil cooler is not drained.

You'll also find that you'll probably get oil burn in the vicinity of 1L per 5000kms/3000miles. That's just a reality of the B235 Engine. Mine was much worse than that when I first got the car, but using the SHU oils and a few oil flushes, that's about what I get (last oil chage was 7500kms, it's getting better) after 35,000kms of ownership (185,000kms total on engine with ~200PSI compression in each cylinder, the motor is in excellent shape and blows not smoke at all.) As a result of this oil burn, it's good to swap out the oil every 5000kms / 3000miles as that's the point where it falls past the Low mark on the dip stick.

This oil burn is also an excellent reason to use Mid/Low SAPS oil as it leaves fewer deposits (sludge/coke) which is important for these engines. All being equal you should expect fuel economy in the 8.0L/100kms (~30mgp) if the motor is in good shape. The fuel economy in mine has also improved on the diet of Helix ultra as I believe it's helped mobilize deposits out of the ring lands and as a result improved ring seal (noting the reduction in oil consumption from earlier.)

My Sump was particularly bad when I first pulled it off. lots and lots of grit (coke,) screen was almost blocked and the base of the pan was coved in a rock hard layer 2-3mm thick of sludge/coke...



The cam cover was also rather nasty, needless to say I cleaned them up to a factory standard. This was at 153,000kms shortly after I bought the car and read up on the problems. I had the sump off a month ago at 185,000kms and having run nothing but Helix Ultra ECT and ensuring the oil cooler was drained each oil change. Sump was absolutely clean. Save a few pieces of coke that no doubt had come loose from being stuck somewhere in the engine over the 32,000kms of travel. No additional build up or even the start of buildup on the oil pan.

Have fun with your Saab, They're great fun, reasonably economical, very comfortable, quiet and reliable if taken care of. Mine's never left me down (Except that time the Direct Ignition Cassette failed and I couldn't start the car... smirk.

Regards
Jordan


Why the mid SAPS vs full on something of this vintage? Also, it'd likely be harder to find and slightly more expensive. I think there's PP 5w30 Euro in jugs at Walmart, but that's about it. The OCI's would have to be shorter as well with the US fuel IIRC, but with these being sludge prone, I guess that's not a bad idea either.

0w40 is full SAPS by the way.


03 Jeep WJ 4.0 200k Castrol Edge 10w40 HM Fram XG16
02 Volvo S60 2.4T 177k M1 0w40 Mahle OX149D
97 Chevy Blazer 4.3 149k Rotella T5 10w30 Supertech ST3980

Re: 02 Saab aero oil? [Re: dlundblad] #4802807
07/02/18 01:46 AM
07/02/18 01:46 AM
Joined: Jul 2016
Posts: 177
Albury, NSW
JFAllen Offline
JFAllen  Offline
Joined: Jul 2016
Posts: 177
Albury, NSW
Originally Posted By: dlundblad
Why the mid SAPS vs full on something of this vintage? Also, it'd likely be harder to find and slightly more expensive. I think there's PP 5w30 Euro in jugs at Walmart, but that's about it. The OCI's would have to be shorter as well with the US fuel IIRC, but with these being sludge prone, I guess that's not a bad idea either.

0w40 is full SAPS by the way.


These engines are known to sludge and burn oil (just ask any Saab owner.) Reducing the ash content, is a good way to limit buildup, (which is why they're spec'd on modern GDI engines.) Also the DEXOS2 and VW504/507 oil have to pass more stringent deposit formation tests than stock SN oils. Generally speaking these oils also tend to have lower NOACK values, helping limit oil vapour flash off.

All good when it comes to limiting sludge buildup

As for OCI interval. as discussed, you'll be lucky to get 7,500kms from one of these engines before it's burnt 1.5L of oil and you then have a choice.

A:top up 1.5L or
B: do an oil change.

I choose to do an oil change because (of course I do, I'm a member here,) clean oil in turbocharged, sludge prone engines is always a good thing. And 1->2 oil changes a year isn't going to break the bank (~$80AUD a change all in.) So while I've not done an UOA, I can't actually begin to 'push the oil's limits,' as it is consumed because of the engineering short comings within the engine long before that'd come into play. Doing the more frequent oil change also helps to improve fuel economy, so while I pay up-front for oil, I pay less each time at the petrol pump.

USA fuel is a lot better today than most give credit for. The big auto manufacturers and EPA (well the trump EPA is a bit...) are demanding better quality fuels (basically lower sulphur content) so that modern engines can pass emissions, have long OCI's and not foul up with carbon and ash. In a Turbocharged car, you should be using a premium unleaded fuel (I and everyone I know with one deos) anyway, as a knock preventative. Premium fuels, have lower sulphur content anyway. As such the lower TBN vs say an A3/B4 oil isn't even on my radar, as both the spec'd oil's i mentioned pass API-SN.

Once you've had a few sumps of low ash oil pump through your engines sump (especially if you ensure the sump is scrubbed clean) you'll notice the difference. Just make sure to drain and refill the oil cooler each oil change.

Regards
Jordan

Re: 02 Saab aero oil? [Re: Newuser] #4811866
07/11/18 11:04 PM
07/11/18 11:04 PM
Joined: Sep 2015
Posts: 5,839
Kalifornia Kollective
BrocLuno Offline
BrocLuno  Offline
Joined: Sep 2015
Posts: 5,839
Kalifornia Kollective
The coke is from baking. The bottom and sides of the pan get hot from the CATs and the under motor air shield. Loose the shield and loose 0.5 MPG, but gets lots more air circulation and reduced pan temps. Coking solved smile

Saab Central web site is your friend when looking for advice particular to these cars.

Helix Ultra is not going to be readily available in South Carolina ... Rotella T6 5W-40 will be all over the place and is a full synthetic HDEO that many USA Saab owners swear by (including me) smile

Last edited by BrocLuno; 07/11/18 11:06 PM.

Formerly in marine engineering. In an earlier life I owned my own petroleum tank truck, and hauled for the majors and independent's.

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