Single Data Point: CK-4 destroys the flat tappet

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Gokhan

Gokhan

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So much with using HDEO's in flat tappets. Shell Rotella CK-4 destroyed this guy's cam during professional rebuilt and break-in.

http://www.chevelles.com/forums/13-performance/958417-rotella-ck4-warning.html#/topics/958417?page=1

I'm getting the impression that the CK-4 HDEO's are not good for gasoline-engine applications. I remain pessimistic even if they carry a dual SN rating. I used Mobil Delvac 1300 Super 15W-40 CJ-4/SM a lot in the past in my gasoline engine but I will no longer use an HDEO after seeing reports like this.
 
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And if they told you wolverines made good house pets would you believe that too?

Maybe that’s just me. I’m hard to convince I guess when reading random posts on the Internet.
 
It means he should have used an appropriate break in oil during break in. There are plenty of stories on the net of people running into problems, even with additives. In a rebuild like this, use a dedicated break in oil, not an additive, or an HDEO. That's been the advice here from those in the know, including formulators. Rotella didn't destroy anything; using an inappropriate oil in the first place did.
 
I don't understand the logic presented in the OP. How does using the wrong oil for break in lead to the following conclusion?

Quote:
I'm getting the impression that the CK-4 HDEO's are not good for gasoline-engine applications.


Your thread title and OP is very misleading. Kudos for excellent clickbait!
 
I dion’t believe the article mentioned which Rotella CK-4. Shell makes 6 different CK-4 motor oils. I’m not going to list them. That would be way more info than that original article. Thanks for posting but I wouldn’t draw any conclusions from it.
 
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Hmmm, a post about an oil that wasn't used as intended or what it is specified for, destroying a cam, from a guy who works for a company that sells mega-dollar oils that aren't even in the same usage arenas?

What could possibly not be above-board and completely forthcoming in this situation?
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What a giant leap to conclusions here. If anything, I would think that it's dual rating and it "destroying" his engine means that it's perfectly fine in it's intended applications and can cause damage when misused... like anything else on the market.
 
Am I missing the part where moly assembly lube wasn't used?

Every time I have worked on a camshaft, it got a good coat of red moly assembly lube on the journals before being bolted in. The oil was always whatever the engine spec's.
 
Originally Posted By: Gokhan
So much with using HDEO's in flat tappets. Shell Rotella CK-4 destroyed this guy's cam during professional rebuilt and break-in.

http://www.chevelles.com/forums/13-performance/958417-rotella-ck4-warning.html#/topics/958417?page=1

I'm getting the impression that the CK-4 HDEO's are not good for gasoline-engine applications. I remain pessimistic even if they carry a dual SN rating. I used Mobil Delvac 1300 Super 15W-40 CJ-4/SM a lot in the past in my gasoline engine but I will no longer use an HDEO after seeing reports like this.


See my post in "Diesel Lube in Petrol Engine". I don't wish to repeat myself.
 
Originally Posted By: ka9mnx
See my post in "Diesel Lube in Petrol Engine". I don't wish to repeat myself.

Actually my 1985 Corolla owner's manual recommends SF or SF/CC. So, dual-rating is decades-old. Rotella CK-4 isn't dual-rated though. It also no longer has moly.
 
I would personally be prudent to start attributing these failures to the oil, perhaps if we start hearing about more of these happening with CK-4 HDEO's then we can make a safe assumption that they are not to be used in flat tappet engines.
Here in Europe i will still continue to use 15W-40 HDEO without worry, such as Shell Rimula R4X and Mobil Delvac MX, these two are still API SL / CI-4 rated, in fact most Dual rated HDEOs in Europe are not even CJ-4 yet, these contain more than 1200, some nearly 1400ppm of Zddp.
 
Originally Posted By: Gokhan
So much with using HDEO's in flat tappets. Shell Rotella CK-4 destroyed this guy's cam during professional rebuilt and break-in.

http://www.chevelles.com/forums/13-performance/958417-rotella-ck4-warning.html#/topics/958417?page=1

I'm getting the impression that the CK-4 HDEO's are not good for gasoline-engine applications. I remain pessimistic even if they carry a dual SN rating. I used Mobil Delvac 1300 Super 15W-40 CJ-4/SM a lot in the past in my gasoline engine but I will no longer use an HDEO after seeing reports like this.


Checked out lakespeed's facebook page...not much in it to be forming "informed" opinions on...especially when he's trying to sell his own product.

Check him out on YouTube, then see if you consider him informed, or marketing.
 
Originally Posted By: Gokhan
Originally Posted By: ka9mnx
See my post in "Diesel Lube in Petrol Engine". I don't wish to repeat myself.

Actually my 1985 Corolla owner's manual recommends SF or SF/CC. So, dual-rating is decades-old. Rotella CK-4 isn't dual-rated though. It also no longer has moly.


Yea I'm aware of the old dual rating but I never gave it a second thought back then. Guess I should get my head out of the sand.

In the days I referred to in my post, I used Rotella 40w diesel oil in my slant-six because it was free where I worked. I was newely married and broke. Didn't care what went in the engine. Oil was oil!

Guys I worked with said I was going to blow up my engine...
 
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The using "SF/CC" to say that manufacturers were even remotely recommending dual rated oils in their engines is laughable (but not unexpected in this line of threads).

ACEA A3/B4 is genuine, as it meets them both.

CF is still on oil labels, although it's not even got a valid test anymore.

SF was obsolete in 1988,
CE was obsolete in 1983.

So "CC" in a 1985 Corolla manual is an error and an artefact rather than a recommendation.
 
This is the morel of his story which everyone here agrees with.

"This post is just an FYI to anyone using Diesel oils for break-in, etc..."
 
The moral of the story is:

Use a dedicated break in oil if you're breaking in a flat tappet cam in an engine with ridiculous spring pressure.

Which I would think to be obvious. A warmed-over SBC could be broken in with HDEO and an additive just fine as they have been for years. This is not a CK-4 vs CJ-4 issue, it's a using-the-wrong-oil-for-the-application issue.

Maybe it was a defective cam and it would have been wiped no matter what. It's not like you can try more than once.
 
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