2007 Chrysler 4.0L SOHC engine - why 10w-30 req'd?

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I was perusing the owners manual for our new-to-us 2007 Chrysler Pacifica w/ 4.0L engine and came across the oil section. Strangely, the recommended viscosity is 10w-30, and they suggest using 5w-30 ONLY in cold weather. The manual covers two different engine models, and its suggested viscosity for the old pushrod 3.8L for that year is 5w-20 in all conditions. I thought the 5w-20 was required for all late-model Chrysler vehicles. What gives?

I know the 4.0L SOHC is a descendant of the Chrysler 3.5L. Does anyone recall if the 3.5L had a 10w-30 requirement?

FWIW, I plan on using PUP 0w-40 (a light 40 weight, branded for Chrysler SRT vehicles) that I got on clearance a year or two ago. It should be appropriate for this application. Any suggestions on O/C interval?
 
Why are you concerned over different engines and past engine requirements? Use what your manual states.
Odds are, 10W30 offers less consumption for your engine and better performance in non-winter months.
BTW - my daughter's Pacifica even drinks too much 10W30. But that engine remains quiet and runs smooth 11 years later. She sticks with conventional, due to the cost of adding an additional two quarts per OCI (5K). No leaks anywhere.
 
I don't believe that for a second. 10w-30 is a poor all-season choice, especially in cold climates. I don't set my OCI's by season, therefore 10w-30 just isn't an option for me. Curious as to why they require that instead of a 5w-30 or 5w-20 as most vehicle manufactures have been doing for a couple decades or more now...
 
The manual states 5W-30 is fine for winter. Heck, you could even use it in the summer. But just expect more consumption, if you go that route.

That vehicle will cost you an arm & leg to have it serviced. Everything under that hood is very tough to work on. Very little room for your hands and wrenches. When my daughter brought that vehicle to my home to show me her new ride, I opened the hood and muttered O.M.G...... then said a long prayer that the vehicle would hold up well - with minimum service needed during it's lifetime.

To all those that like to work on their vehicles, Always spend time under the hood at the dealer first and then decide if you want a vehicle like the old Pacifica. I tried one day to change the bottom radiator hose and gave up finally. Repair shop had to remove three different things to get at a clamp. What a PITA that vehicle is to work on.
 
Originally Posted By: 92saturnsl2
I was perusing the owners manual for our new-to-us 2007 Chrysler Pacifica w/ 4.0L engine and came across the oil section. Strangely, the recommended viscosity is 10w-30, and they suggest using 5w-30 ONLY in cold weather. The manual covers two different engine models, and its suggested viscosity for the old pushrod 3.8L for that year is 5w-20 in all conditions. I thought the 5w-20 was required for all late-model Chrysler vehicles. What gives?

I know the 4.0L SOHC is a descendant of the Chrysler 3.5L. Does anyone recall if the 3.5L had a 10w-30 requirement?

FWIW, I plan on using PUP 0w-40 (a light 40 weight, branded for Chrysler SRT vehicles) that I got on clearance a year or two ago. It should be appropriate for this application. Any suggestions on O/C interval?


All the 3.5's and 4.0's spec 10W-30. They have as long as I can remember. Seems to work fine up here in MN year round.

No kidding about working on those things, though. And you can plan on working on it a lot. Pacifica's aren't exactly known for reliability... probably why you never see them anymore.

You didn't get an AWD one, did you?
 
I avoided AWD for the maintenance/repair reason alone-- so no, not AWD, we don't need it in KY. I honestly can't see anything about the engine bay that would make it a nightmare to work on, and I've studied it quite a bit. It looks a lot like the engine bay my '04 Odyssey, and that one is super easy to work on, unlike my Maxima which has a DOHC V6 shoehorned into a small chassis. I'll soon find out though, because the previous owner did not replace the timing belt, so I'm doing that first thing before we start driving it since it has 130k now.

I saw enough 200k-300k Pacificas in good condition, in the years I was looking at to support the theory that they can hold up if maintained well. Good reviews all around on used-car websites.

My subject topic was intended to start a conversation on the 10w-30 requirement vs 5w-20 in all Chrysler's other vehicles. There must be a reason. It's like GM's 3800 that specs 10w-30 instead of the 5w-30 on all their other cars at the time. Perhaps the engines are harder on oil, and my thinking is 10w-30 would break down less than a 5w-30 over the same OCI.
 
Originally Posted By: Triple_Se7en
The manual states 5W-30 is fine for winter. Heck, you could even use it in the summer. But just expect more consumption, if you go that route.

That vehicle will cost you an arm & leg to have it serviced. Everything under that hood is very tough to work on. Very little room for your hands and wrenches. When my daughter brought that vehicle to my home to show me her new ride, I opened the hood and muttered O.M.G...... then said a long prayer that the vehicle would hold up well - with minimum service needed during it's lifetime.

To all those that like to work on their vehicles, Always spend time under the hood at the dealer first and then decide if you want a vehicle like the old Pacifica. I tried one day to change the bottom radiator hose and gave up finally. Repair shop had to remove three different things to get at a clamp. What a PITA that vehicle is to work on.


Suggestion, never buy a Mini or VW New Beetle.
 
Give the PUP 0W-40 a try. See what happens with consumption. Have you checked the motor for leaks?

Are you going to replace the PCV valve as part of your maintenance?
 
Originally Posted By: JC1
Give the PUP 0W-40 a try. See what happens with consumption. Have you checked the motor for leaks?

Are you going to replace the PCV valve as part of your maintenance?


Engine and transmission are dry as a bone. Indeed, the PCV valve will be replaced. I almost forgot about it, on a couple of my last vehicles they weren't replaceable. No idea if this engine will consume oil or not (haven't driven it enough yet), but the 0w-40 shouldn't be any worse than 10w-30 in that regard.
 
On a cold year we'll get 5-7 days around zero. Rarely below that, but you can count on most nighttime temps in Jan/Feb being at or below freezing. I suppose a good synthetic 10-30 would be okay at those temps.
 
Originally Posted By: 92saturnsl2
I was perusing the owners manual for our new-to-us 2007 Chrysler Pacifica w/ 4.0L engine and came across the oil section. Strangely, the recommended viscosity is 10w-30, and they suggest using 5w-30 ONLY in cold weather.
That has been typical for a lot of Owner's Manuals up to around 2007, but really not afterward much. In a nutshell: Think of the recommended viscosity as a "minimum HTHS requirement", as in your engine needs an HTHS>=2.9, and I think they recommended 10w30 because they thought you might use a conventional oil that is cheap and shears VII down too much. HTHS supports the oil film thickness, which is wear protection we want. Actually, with a good full synthetic 0w30 or 5w30 that meets dexos1 would be plenty shear stable enough to obsolete the "10w30" Chrsyler thing.

Originally Posted By: 92saturnsl2
FWIW, I plan on using PUP 0w-40 (a light 40 weight, branded for Chrysler SRT vehicles) that I got on clearance a year or two ago. It should be appropriate for this application. Any suggestions on O/C interval?
Yes, good choice on the 0w40 SRT oil, and its got about 275 ppm moly in it, robust stuff. Great on any port injected engines, just not turbo+DI there due to LSPI fears. .....You can easily go 1 year on that oil with a Fram Ultra oil filter (just not a Purolator or Motorcraft oil filter at least, since they get holes in them). If you short trip it a lot, like less than 8 miles per trip, then just go 6 months on it, otherwise 1 year and 15k miles is easily done on that oil.
 
Originally Posted By: 92saturnsl2
I don't believe that for a second. 10w-30 is a poor all-season choice, especially in cold climates. I don't set my OCI's by season, therefore 10w-30 just isn't an option for me. Curious as to why they require that instead of a 5w-30 or 5w-20 as most vehicle manufactures have been doing for a couple decades or more now...


Not a bad choice in Kentucky.
 
If talking conventional oil, the 10W30 would have a lot less polymer VII than a conventional 5W30. Less VII would translate to less shear, less deposits and it would have a lower Noack volatility too. Of course a synthetic 5W30 like M1 or Edge would be fine. But I think they assumed that most people would use cheaper conventional oil.

In Australia, I can't even buy a conventional 5W30 at my regular oil shops. It's either conventional 10W30 or if I want 5W30 then it must be a synthetic or semi-synthetic as a minimum.

BTW 10W is good down to 0F or -20C
 
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If your owner's manual doesn't recommend 5W-30 but it does recommend 10W-30, there is a reason regarding multigrade oils few people know.

It's called temporary oil shear. This is different and much less understood than than permanent oil shear that most people on BITOG are highly familiar with, which is the irreversible viscosity loss experienced in used oil due to the permanent breakdown of viscosity-index improver (VII) polymer molecules.

Temporary shear on the other hand is reversible. However, it still reduces the operational viscosity, even for new, unused oil. To understand this examine the following plot.

FP9OxINCDd0b3etEhbdZv--aXaNNTrWJl-X-EVKLfcHB-hoWvkeSr6yE8EEC_KgBSKCgVytPp4gdMjNdrV2-hxPZQ4LdxWLmcMamWpMwGGUoj8iTUmHRfIBlECnFr0SKjifGstsqpWhEbg8PSXH7G6Zgt0UzJDel14HR2TwKfwHMVKuiwAgJmOins2IrltoVmOOUdeSgA1M9hUYsh8IpzaVikwkgxtSWGK90FbUWwstDUkW6x9Uj7fkoxWUklqpV5ThYpOlVjehf5dCIeTLtA3WY4_9gd6oUDwbOLo1jzVa4AchE6S--jplBpkRhta_x1e_lF8_WF9dyJPIR9nKSA_PLaFj1e8aL4ICghXgwEaUd9Zua02_dgWCd6sw5RJVjlFU_8fSwyGVGAnSZ7VBiF7GNpVfhZybtZEKd468HJudhZN-cpVvgBBMBOn7JHoKZi0y6_d15p4uRTFu8cI1rN4l_V0YM-Q3-BkaBpRFKj2sn32ARUrGpN9eoP25LAIl70mrzZddBYrCYHjvuNonBy-RIi-mJiSWBC88q0C-exsZejRMB-GjfhR9jbDCVZf2tsRGePEXBS2dBQ1Kjntjcm8lz0SsIv8CrVzHVXvb8=w794-h724-no


Source: https://www.oronite.com/paratone/shearrates.aspx

Shear rate means how fast and how close the sliding or rotating parts are. It's given by the relative speed of the motion divided by the separation between the two sliding parts. Therefore, the resulting unit is inverse time (inverse second). Shear rate is highest in the valvetrain because the parts are virtually making metal-to-metal contact, with only atomic-level separation.

Temporary viscosity loss -- temporary shear -- increases with shear rate. Therefore, it's highest in the valvetrain. I don't know how accurate the Chevron/Oronite plot is but you can see it there. The plot is showing the viscosity contribution by the VII, not the total viscosity. Also, they don't show the timing chain, which could have even a higher shear rate. I think it's safest to assume that in certain parts of the engine, VII has no effect on viscosity-generated protection against wear. So, to be on the safe side, assume that your timing chain is seeing SAE 5W, not SAE 30, when you're running SAE 5W-30 etc.

As a result a 5W-30 runs thinner in the valvetrain and timing chain than a 10W-30, even when the oil is fresh. This is because a 5W-30 has more VII than a 10W-30. A 0W-30 would run even thinner.

If you want the highest wear protection, consider the thickest base oil you can afford in your climate. Base-oil thickness is given by the x in xW-y. a 15W-40 has a thicker base oil than a 10W-40; a 10W-40 has a thicker base oil than a 5W-40, and a 5W-40 has a thicker base oil than a 0W-40. Therefore, you would experience the lowest operational viscosity in the valvetrain and timing chain with a 0W-40.

Nissan engineers recently published a paper that claims the timing-chain wear is related to the base-oil viscosity, not the finished-oil viscosity that also includes the contribution from the VII:

Do you think that's "thick" oil? Think again!

As a rule of thumb, say you have a SAE 5W-30 oil:

* You're running a SAE 30 oil only at the normal operating temperature and in the leak paths (behind rings, past seals, etc.).
* Otherwise, you're running a SAE 5W oil in the high-shear parts of the engine, such as the valvetrain, timing chain, and even the cylinders and bearings to some extent. Even if the shear rate in a given part of the engine is not extreme, you're nowhere near a SAE 30.

Regarding conventional vs. synthetic, the same rules still apply. Don't count on replacing a conventional 10W-30 recommendation with a synthetic 5W-30. Even a synthetic 5W-30 is made of a substantially thinner base oil and a lot of VII; so, it still runs thinner than a conventional 10W-30 in the high-shear parts of the engine. Besides these days the line between conventional and synthetic is highly blurred.

So, did you think you knew how a multigrade worked? Unlike most people believe and most sources on the Internet explain, a 5W-30 and a 10W-30 are quite different oils, even at normal operating temperature, where they are supposed to have the same viscosimetric properties -- they simply don't at all! This is the untold fact of the multigrade oil.
 
Originally Posted By: Gokhan
...As a result a 5W-30 runs thinner in the valvetrain and timing chain than a 10W-30, even when the oil is fresh. This is because a 5W-30 has more VII than a 10W-30. A 0W-30 would run even thinner.

If you want the highest wear protection, consider the thickest base oil you can afford in your climate. Base-oil thickness is given by the x in xW-y. a 15W-40 has a thicker base oil than a 10W-40; a 10W-40 has a thicker base oil than a 5W-40, and a 5W-40 has a thicker base oil than a 0W-40. Therefore, you would experience the lowest operational viscosity in the valvetrain and timing chain with a 0W-40...


Would a non-Dexos 10W30 still provide less timing chain wear than a Dexos1 Gen2 5W30?
 
My man don't stress and tire yourself out its an older vehicle pushing 130k, the temps where you are located a quality 10w30 is a stout blend and will serve that engine just fine.
 
Originally Posted By: turnbowm
Originally Posted By: Gokhan
... As a result a 5W-30 runs thinner in the valvetrain and timing chain than a 10W-30, even when the oil is fresh. This is because a 5W-30 has more VII than a 10W-30. A 0W-30 would run even thinner.

If you want the highest wear protection, consider the thickest base oil you can afford in your climate. Base-oil thickness is given by the x in xW-y. a 15W-40 has a thicker base oil than a 10W-40; a 10W-40 has a thicker base oil than a 5W-40, and a 5W-40 has a thicker base oil than a 0W-40. Therefore, you would experience the lowest operational viscosity in the valvetrain and timing chain with a 0W-40...

Would a non-Dexos 10W30 still provide less timing chain wear than a Dexos1 Gen 2 5w30?

If the 5W-30 version of a 10W-30 oil is dexos1 Gen 2 certified, then yes, the 10W-30 version will protect the timing chain better, even though it cannot be dexos-certified because the 10W-30 grade isn't included in dexos. That's because the additive package is identical. If the 5W-30 version isn't dexos1 Gen 2, then there is no guarantee for timing-chain protection for either, as you're in untested territory.
 
A lot of had to do with the shear problem of 5w30's of the era as well. They did not want the oil to get too thin. The older Chrysler 3.5, the 4.7 HO and the Jeep 4.0 all spec'd 10w30 and stated only to use 5w30 in winter if at all, 10w30 was still preferred.

Too much BITOG reading can skew reality a bit, I used dino 10w30 rear round in everything I owned in Missouri for decades no problem at all. Heck when I was a kid we used 10w40, in South Dakota no less, year round.

A good 10w30 is about the closest thing to a universal PCMO there is IMO.
 
Originally Posted By: Gokhan
Originally Posted By: turnbowm

Would a non-Dexos 10W30 still provide less timing chain wear than a Dexos1 Gen 2 5w30?

If the 5W-30 version of a 10W-30 oil is dexos1 Gen 2 certified, then yes, the 10W-30 version will protect the timing chain better, even though it cannot be dexos-certified because the 10W-30 grade isn't included in dexos. That's because the additive package is identical. If the 5W-30 version isn't dexos1 Gen 2, then there is no guarantee for timing-chain protection for either, as you're in untested territory.


Pennzoil reformulated Platinum to meet Dexos1 Gen2 specs but, for whatever the reason, left Ultra Platinum unchanged. I'm guessing that the Platinum D1G2 5W30 might offer less timing chain wear that Ultra Platinum 10W30, since Ultra Platinum doesn't meet D1G2 in any grade.
 
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