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First UOA on 2017 Ram 3500 CTD #4788743
06/16/18 10:18 PM
06/16/18 10:18 PM
Joined: Feb 2015
Posts: 852
Sask, Canada
BrianF Offline OP
BrianF  Offline OP

Joined: Feb 2015
Posts: 852
Sask, Canada
I received my UOA the other day via email from Fluid Life. The caveat: I was under no illusion of what I was expecting this to be. The truck had 48,545km on it with 24,238km on the oil. PetroCan Duron SHP 10w30 semi synthetic CK4, CES 20086 approved. So I expected the wear metals to be elevated as there was still some factory fill in there. What I was really interested in was viscosity, fuel, TBN/TAN and soot. This index was using the Fleetguard LF16035. The next change has the Hastings LF608.

Now I tried to attach the report but for some reason it would not upload so I will see what I have to fix. Anyways I had labelled the oil as 10w30 but they tested it as 15w40 and flagged the drop in viscosity. I never received TBN/TAN and now see I have to call ahead to order this as an extra. The viscosity advertised for the oil is 80cSt at 40C and 12cSt at 100C. The oil tested 76.4cSt and 11.47cSt respectively. So at operating temp the oil was holding strong in my eyes. It was still well within the condemnation limits set forth by Cummins for a 30 weight.

Fuel came back at 2.87%, which could account for the slight reduction in viscosity but really the oil appeared unaffected. Cummins specs 5% max so I am still within limits. Out of the 24,000km, about 12,000 is towing. That breaks down to about 1800km with 20k lb and the rest at or near 10k lb. There is a full winter of use, a few unaided cold starts around the -30C mark, the rest having the truck plugged in. We idle a lot in the cold as well.

Soot was .59% which is well within limits. I think they spec 3% max.

I have not spent much time looking at which additives PetroCan uses but they seem close to Fluidlife's typical averages. Zinc was down to 1230 from 1270ppm, phosphorus 987 from 1150, calcium was 1060 from 1070ppm. Now they say these numbers are for the 15w40 SHP but that should fall in the same bracket as the 10w30 SHP.

Potassium was 124ppm, aluminum 45ppm, iron 106ppm, copper 124ppm were all flagged high. Sodium 2ppm and lead 1ppm. While most were high, I am not worried until I have more tests done over the upcoming changes to establish trends. What I wanted to see and did was the 30 weight oil held up well and did not really lose much viscosity with use and fuel dilution.

Last edited by BrianF; 06/16/18 10:18 PM.

2006 Trailblazer LT. QSUD with Fram Ultra.
2017 Ram 3500 SLT Megacab. Duron SHP 10w30 with Hastings LF608.
1993 GMC 1500. QSAD with Fram PH5
Re: First UOA on 2017 Ram 3500 CTD [Re: BrianF] #4789038
06/17/18 09:15 AM
06/17/18 09:15 AM
Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 3,491
Massachusetts
deven Offline
deven  Offline

Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 3,491
Massachusetts
I have never seen potassium so high in any UOA. You might have a coolant leak even though sodium is non existent.


Proud user of ROYAL PURPLE products!

2016 Acura RLX Sports Hybrid(Royal Purple HPS 5w30 + M1-110 oil filter)

KEEP IT SIMPLE STUPID. IT'S ONLY OIL
Re: First UOA on 2017 Ram 3500 CTD [Re: BrianF] #4789993
06/18/18 11:23 AM
06/18/18 11:23 AM
Joined: Oct 2017
Posts: 248
A Highway Near You
PiperOne Offline
PiperOne  Offline

Joined: Oct 2017
Posts: 248
A Highway Near You
Metal numbers "should" settle down with the next service. The iron number I thought was a little high though...for what was about a 15,000 mile interval, I'd want to see that number eventually under 45..with 30 being a better target IMO. Too bad they didn't get the TBN/TAN for you. Every now and again I have to have that fight with Polaris as suddenly my samples will come back missing one or the other....even when I specifically ask for both.

Will be interesting to see how the Hastings hold up. After switching away from Fleetguard to Wix XP...I have switched back to Fleetguard (post about the results coming soon).


HDEO in Diesel Engines. No spark plugs here.
Re: First UOA on 2017 Ram 3500 CTD [Re: BrianF] #4790257
06/18/18 04:30 PM
06/18/18 04:30 PM
Joined: Feb 2015
Posts: 852
Sask, Canada
BrianF Offline OP
BrianF  Offline OP

Joined: Feb 2015
Posts: 852
Sask, Canada
Thanks guys. Unfortunately I have to wait 3/4 of a year until the next change as that seems to be how long it takes to get the 24k. I expect the wear numbers to settle and will monitor the coolant as Fluid Life suspects its ingesting coolant due to the potassium. But if the level is consistent I hope to see that drop.

What I am aiming for is to see how well a 30 weight holds up in the 6.7 ISB. I like what DNewton is up to with his Dirtymax and like to dispel the classic "Diesels can only run a 40 weight and I cant have good results unless I run some expensive 5w40."

Buying in 4 liter jugs, the 10w30 runs about 4.7$ a liter (price is up 20 cents a liter since last year). To get into the 0, 5w30 and 40 weight synthetics from PetroCan you are already north of 6 an 7$ a liter. If I can get good all season results then I see no need to spend that money.


2006 Trailblazer LT. QSUD with Fram Ultra.
2017 Ram 3500 SLT Megacab. Duron SHP 10w30 with Hastings LF608.
1993 GMC 1500. QSAD with Fram PH5
Re: First UOA on 2017 Ram 3500 CTD [Re: BrianF] #4790487
06/18/18 08:48 PM
06/18/18 08:48 PM
Joined: May 2013
Posts: 1,139
upstate NY
dustyroads Offline
dustyroads  Offline

Joined: May 2013
Posts: 1,139
upstate NY
Originally Posted By: deven
I have never seen potassium so high in any UOA. You might have a coolant leak even though sodium is non existent.

Originally Posted By: BrianF
Thanks guys. Unfortunately I have to wait 3/4 of a year until the next change as that seems to be how long it takes to get the 24k. I expect the wear numbers to settle and will monitor the coolant as Fluid Life suspects its ingesting coolant due to the potassium. But if the level is consistent I hope to see that drop.


I have good news for you, Brian. I feel confident saying that the potassium and some of the aluminum is coming from the intercooler.

My Detroit Diesel showed lots of potassium in the first couple of samples, too. The lab's comments said that the potassium and aluminum were leached from the intercooler and Detroit's literature said that would be the case as well.

There may be differences between our intercoolers but I'm betting that they're similar in materials and that's where the potassium (and some of the aluminum) is coming from.


2013 F150 XLT 5.0 4X4 104k miles
Edge 5W-30 / Fram 10575
Re: First UOA on 2017 Ram 3500 CTD [Re: BrianF] #4793678
06/21/18 09:21 PM
06/21/18 09:21 PM
Joined: May 2013
Posts: 1,139
upstate NY
dustyroads Offline
dustyroads  Offline

Joined: May 2013
Posts: 1,139
upstate NY
Specifically, it's the brazing flux in the intercooler that has the potassium, aluminum or whatever else is in the compound the manufacturer uses, where the leaching occurs.

I had never heard of such a thing until I sampled my factory fill and then read Detroit's info about what would be found in it.


2013 F150 XLT 5.0 4X4 104k miles
Edge 5W-30 / Fram 10575
Re: First UOA on 2017 Ram 3500 CTD [Re: BrianF] #4794014
06/22/18 08:39 AM
06/22/18 08:39 AM
Joined: Feb 2015
Posts: 852
Sask, Canada
BrianF Offline OP
BrianF  Offline OP

Joined: Feb 2015
Posts: 852
Sask, Canada
Thanks for that!!


2006 Trailblazer LT. QSUD with Fram Ultra.
2017 Ram 3500 SLT Megacab. Duron SHP 10w30 with Hastings LF608.
1993 GMC 1500. QSAD with Fram PH5
Re: First UOA on 2017 Ram 3500 CTD [Re: BrianF] #4805896
07/05/18 01:01 PM
07/05/18 01:01 PM
Joined: Feb 2015
Posts: 852
Sask, Canada
BrianF Offline OP
BrianF  Offline OP

Joined: Feb 2015
Posts: 852
Sask, Canada


Sorry tried to post the UOA. I had to snip it to get my personal stuff off and now the file wont work.

Last edited by BrianF; 07/05/18 01:09 PM.

2006 Trailblazer LT. QSUD with Fram Ultra.
2017 Ram 3500 SLT Megacab. Duron SHP 10w30 with Hastings LF608.
1993 GMC 1500. QSAD with Fram PH5
Re: First UOA on 2017 Ram 3500 CTD [Re: BrianF] #4806599
07/06/18 08:12 AM
07/06/18 08:12 AM
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 31,485
NY
demarpaint Offline
demarpaint  Offline

Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 31,485
NY
You can quickly rule out a coolant leak by pressure testing the cooling system. IMO it beats watching the level and/or waiting for another UOA. 2cents


God Bless Our Troops

Re: First UOA on 2017 Ram 3500 CTD [Re: BrianF] #4816881
07/17/18 09:17 PM
07/17/18 09:17 PM
Joined: Feb 2015
Posts: 852
Sask, Canada
BrianF Offline OP
BrianF  Offline OP

Joined: Feb 2015
Posts: 852
Sask, Canada



2006 Trailblazer LT. QSUD with Fram Ultra.
2017 Ram 3500 SLT Megacab. Duron SHP 10w30 with Hastings LF608.
1993 GMC 1500. QSAD with Fram PH5
Re: First UOA on 2017 Ram 3500 CTD [Re: BrianF] #4833996
08/08/18 04:39 AM
08/08/18 04:39 AM
Joined: Oct 2016
Posts: 207
Virginia, usa
Shata Offline
Shata  Offline

Joined: Oct 2016
Posts: 207
Virginia, usa
Why on earth are you running 24k interval on such new engine. There is no way olm didnt run out like 3 times if not more. That truck is under warranty. And idc new fill or not 400 alu is really high. My 6.6 didnt have that much even close at my first oil change.


16 Silverado 2500 LML 20k Miles
Rotella 5w-40 T6
ST 75w-90 GL5 Diff.
ST Full Syn Dexron VI ATF
Fram Ultra XG9100, AC Delco Fuel
CAT Coolant, Wix Air, K&N Cabin
Filter Mags: Fuel, Allison, LML
--------
Re: First UOA on 2017 Ram 3500 CTD [Re: BrianF] #4834019
08/08/18 05:27 AM
08/08/18 05:27 AM
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 7,771
Indianapolis, IN
dnewton3 Offline
dnewton3  Offline

Joined: May 2007
Posts: 7,771
Indianapolis, IN
Shata ... 24k-km is only 15k miles; I think it is the max OCI for this application by OEM decree. Looking at your signature line, I suppose anything past 3001 miles would shock you ...

I see nothing wrong in the OPs UOA here. Engine is young. Things will settle down soon after a few more OCIs.


The act of preventative maintenance, in and of itself, is FAR MORE important than brand/grade/base choices among lubes and filters.
- under maintaining something is akin to abuse/neglect; that can kill equipment by shortening the lifespan
- over maintaining something has never been proven to be anything but a waste of time and money
Re: First UOA on 2017 Ram 3500 CTD [Re: BrianF] #4834828
08/08/18 07:33 PM
08/08/18 07:33 PM
Joined: Feb 2015
Posts: 852
Sask, Canada
BrianF Offline OP
BrianF  Offline OP

Joined: Feb 2015
Posts: 852
Sask, Canada
Well the OLM and the manual call for a 24,000km or 6 month oil change index. Now, I have zero interest in even thinking about considering a 6 month index. That is beyond waste. The manual did not call for a short first oil change for break in, they stated it came from the factory broke in. Cummins even told me the 6.7 ISB is set up and run in at the factory, oil dumped and then shipped off to Ram.

I had viewed a few other UOA on the 6.7 ISB and early on they were showing similar levels of wear metals, which surprisingly subsided as the oil changes went on and the mileage went up.

Again, my interest at this point was to see how a 30 weight would do in this engine. I full well intend to extend my drain intervals as time goes on.


2006 Trailblazer LT. QSUD with Fram Ultra.
2017 Ram 3500 SLT Megacab. Duron SHP 10w30 with Hastings LF608.
1993 GMC 1500. QSAD with Fram PH5
Re: First UOA on 2017 Ram 3500 CTD [Re: BrianF] #4834974
08/09/18 03:31 AM
08/09/18 03:31 AM
Joined: Oct 2016
Posts: 207
Virginia, usa
Shata Offline
Shata  Offline

Joined: Oct 2016
Posts: 207
Virginia, usa
I Didnt see it was KM, My bad. Not like it can be changed now but 400 is pretty high even for new engine. Atleast on few new engines ive had and ran UOA on. Hopefully it trends down. Thats high of wear rate imho is pretty concerning specially in ALU. You shouldnt see much wear there. Iron is one thing during break in.

Last edited by Shata; 08/09/18 03:33 AM.

16 Silverado 2500 LML 20k Miles
Rotella 5w-40 T6
ST 75w-90 GL5 Diff.
ST Full Syn Dexron VI ATF
Fram Ultra XG9100, AC Delco Fuel
CAT Coolant, Wix Air, K&N Cabin
Filter Mags: Fuel, Allison, LML
--------
Re: First UOA on 2017 Ram 3500 CTD [Re: BrianF] #4834994
08/09/18 04:07 AM
08/09/18 04:07 AM
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 7,771
Indianapolis, IN
dnewton3 Offline
dnewton3  Offline

Joined: May 2007
Posts: 7,771
Indianapolis, IN
I think you'll find the 30 grade lubes do every bit as well, even under loads. My Dmax, as well as RR1's PSDs, and larger rigs like the ones Dusty and TT run, show that the grade (40 vs 30) means zilch to the wear rates. I started my experiments in the Dmax 12 years ago just to prove a point; that thinner lubes can hold up to the same loads, and provide the same protection. And frankly I think I proved that beyond any reasonable doubt. That does not mean that a thinner lube is "better"; more accurately it proves that they are "as good" as a thicker grade. So folks whom believe that "thicker is better" are lost in a world of bygones. Thinner grades will return some fractionally small advantage in fuel savings; hard to tell in single use, but fleets can reap the benefits. But the point is that thinner grades of HDEO show no signs of compromise in terms of wear protection; not seen any shred of evidence in that regard.

Last edited by dnewton3; 08/09/18 04:09 AM.

The act of preventative maintenance, in and of itself, is FAR MORE important than brand/grade/base choices among lubes and filters.
- under maintaining something is akin to abuse/neglect; that can kill equipment by shortening the lifespan
- over maintaining something has never been proven to be anything but a waste of time and money
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