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BP Partners With Plaztics-To-Fuels Company #4786374
06/14/18 04:42 AM
06/14/18 04:42 AM
Joined: Oct 2014
Posts: 2,435
San Antonio, TX
Nyogtha Online content OP
Nyogtha  Online Content OP
Joined: Oct 2014
Posts: 2,435
San Antonio, TX
Following up from my older post on US Govt. position on cracking waste plastics to fuels, BP has agreed to offtake the production from just such a facility here in the US.

http://www.hydrocarbonprocessing.com/new...reement-with-bp

Production is small at a little over 1000 BPD but it's a start. The facility will also produce specialty waxes. Could waste plastics to lube base stocks be next around the corner?


"No matter how paranoid you are you're not paranoid enough. Tell the truth. Reach as many people as you can with it. That's your weapon." - Susanne Modeski, aka "Holly" to The Lone Gunmen
Re: BP Partners With Plaztics-To-Fuels Company [Re: Nyogtha] #4786379
06/14/18 04:53 AM
06/14/18 04:53 AM
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 41,234
'Stralia
Shannow Online content
Shannow  Online Content
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 41,234
'Stralia
That's awesome news...

(Still shake my head at the posters who consider plastic at landfill as "sequestration")

Re: BP Partners With Plaztics-To-Fuels Company [Re: Nyogtha] #4786432
06/14/18 06:50 AM
06/14/18 06:50 AM
Joined: May 2010
Posts: 2,054
Illinois, U.S.A
RamFan Offline
RamFan  Offline
Joined: May 2010
Posts: 2,054
Illinois, U.S.A
Glad to see that the U.S. is finally utilizing waste product for fuel rather than letting it sit in the ground.


18 Giulia Ti Sport
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Re: BP Partners With Plaztics-To-Fuels Company [Re: Nyogtha] #4786456
06/14/18 07:41 AM
06/14/18 07:41 AM
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 7,615
Marshfield , MA
andyd Offline
andyd  Offline
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 7,615
Marshfield , MA
At last, a use for old styrofoam?


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Re: BP Partners With Plaztics-To-Fuels Company [Re: RamFan] #4786596
06/14/18 11:08 AM
06/14/18 11:08 AM
Joined: Dec 2017
Posts: 1,166
US
JLTD Offline
JLTD  Offline
Joined: Dec 2017
Posts: 1,166
US
Originally Posted By: RamFan
Glad to see that the U.S. is finally utilizing waste product for fuel rather than letting it sit in the ground.


Well said! Oil -> plastic -> oil with a little chemistry makes too much sense.


I'm a thickie; assimilate
But 20s have their place

Using AMSOIL

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Re: BP Partners With Plaztics-To-Fuels Company [Re: JLTD] #4786607
06/14/18 11:18 AM
06/14/18 11:18 AM
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 10,048
Upper Midwest
kschachn Online content
kschachn  Online Content
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 10,048
Upper Midwest
Originally Posted By: JLTD
Originally Posted By: RamFan
Glad to see that the U.S. is finally utilizing waste product for fuel rather than letting it sit in the ground.

Well said! Oil -> plastic -> oil with a little chemistry makes too much sense.

It's not "a little" chemistry, the process is thermodynamically unfavorable kind of like pig -> sausage -> pig. There will have to be a net input of energy which may come from combustion of other plastic waste.


1994 BMW 530i, 231K
1996 Honda Accord, 263K
1999 Toyota Sienna, 402K
2000 Toyota ECHO, 272K
Re: BP Partners With Plaztics-To-Fuels Company [Re: Nyogtha] #4786830
06/14/18 04:33 PM
06/14/18 04:33 PM
Joined: Oct 2014
Posts: 2,435
San Antonio, TX
Nyogtha Online content OP
Nyogtha  Online Content OP
Joined: Oct 2014
Posts: 2,435
San Antonio, TX
There was much more energy put in to create the plastic to begin with. Olefins are scarce if present at all in crude oils made by nature (syncrudes are a different story). Steam crackers and cokers use brute force thermal cracking, no catalyst to lower activation energy or provide product selectivity. In this case it's more like sausage - pig - sausage with pyrolysis at the end step.

Last edited by Nyogtha; 06/14/18 04:38 PM.

"No matter how paranoid you are you're not paranoid enough. Tell the truth. Reach as many people as you can with it. That's your weapon." - Susanne Modeski, aka "Holly" to The Lone Gunmen
Re: BP Partners With Plaztics-To-Fuels Company [Re: andyd] #4786833
06/14/18 04:37 PM
06/14/18 04:37 PM
Joined: Oct 2014
Posts: 2,435
San Antonio, TX
Nyogtha Online content OP
Nyogtha  Online Content OP
Joined: Oct 2014
Posts: 2,435
San Antonio, TX
Originally Posted By: andyd
At last, a use for old styrofoam?


Yes and more, if you follow the link in the article to the technology company's web site, there's more in-depth info on plastic numbers 1 through 7 unsorted & unwashed as well as carpets and tires used as feedstock. End residue char product could be a partial substiture for coal or coke.


"No matter how paranoid you are you're not paranoid enough. Tell the truth. Reach as many people as you can with it. That's your weapon." - Susanne Modeski, aka "Holly" to The Lone Gunmen
Re: BP Partners With Plaztics-To-Fuels Company [Re: kschachn] #4787472
06/15/18 12:19 PM
06/15/18 12:19 PM
Joined: Dec 2017
Posts: 1,166
US
JLTD Offline
JLTD  Offline
Joined: Dec 2017
Posts: 1,166
US
Originally Posted By: kschachn
Originally Posted By: JLTD
Originally Posted By: RamFan
Glad to see that the U.S. is finally utilizing waste product for fuel rather than letting it sit in the ground.

Well said! Oil -> plastic -> oil with a little chemistry makes too much sense.

It's not "a little" chemistry, the process is thermodynamically unfavorable kind of like pig -> sausage -> pig. There will have to be a net input of energy which may come from combustion of other plastic waste.


Perhaps you should focus on the meaning of what I said - the importance of getting rid of excess plastic to make oil is a good thing - rather than my poetic license taken in the amount of chemistry required.

Or

If you had heard me in verbal conversation you would have understood my meaning better.


Pick one.


I'm a thickie; assimilate
But 20s have their place

Using AMSOIL

Hers: 2008 Jeep Liberty 138k, SS 5w30/Amsoil

His: 2015 4Runner 41k, OE 5w20/Wix

Re: BP Partners With Plaztics-To-Fuels Company [Re: JLTD] #4787485
06/15/18 12:34 PM
06/15/18 12:34 PM
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 10,048
Upper Midwest
kschachn Online content
kschachn  Online Content
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 10,048
Upper Midwest
Originally Posted By: JLTD
Perhaps you should focus on the meaning of what I said - the importance of getting rid of excess plastic to make oil is a good thing - rather than my poetic license taken in the amount of chemistry required.

Or

If you had heard me in verbal conversation you would have understood my meaning better.

Pick one.

Nah, you can pick.

What I meant was that to deconstruct disparate polymers into the desired precursors (and do it in an industrial environment) with a reasonable yield is not easy.


1994 BMW 530i, 231K
1996 Honda Accord, 263K
1999 Toyota Sienna, 402K
2000 Toyota ECHO, 272K
Re: BP Partners With Plaztics-To-Fuels Company [Re: kschachn] #4787494
06/15/18 12:46 PM
06/15/18 12:46 PM
Joined: Dec 2017
Posts: 1,166
US
JLTD Offline
JLTD  Offline
Joined: Dec 2017
Posts: 1,166
US
Originally Posted By: kschachn
Originally Posted By: JLTD
Perhaps you should focus on the meaning of what I said - the importance of getting rid of excess plastic to make oil is a good thing - rather than my poetic license taken in the amount of chemistry required.

Or

If you had heard me in verbal conversation you would have understood my meaning better.

Pick one.

Nah, you can pick.

What I meant was that to deconstruct disparate polymers into the desired precursors (and do it in an industrial environment) with a reasonable yield is not easy.


No harm no foul then ...

Agreed...it takes energy and know how to crack long carbon chains to shorter, or to combine shorter chains to make longer. I have been accused of oversimplifying in the past....


I'm a thickie; assimilate
But 20s have their place

Using AMSOIL

Hers: 2008 Jeep Liberty 138k, SS 5w30/Amsoil

His: 2015 4Runner 41k, OE 5w20/Wix

Re: BP Partners With Plaztics-To-Fuels Company [Re: JLTD] #4788700
06/16/18 10:26 PM
06/16/18 10:26 PM
Joined: Oct 2014
Posts: 2,435
San Antonio, TX
Nyogtha Online content OP
Nyogtha  Online Content OP
Joined: Oct 2014
Posts: 2,435
San Antonio, TX
Originally Posted By: JLTD
Originally Posted By: kschachn
Originally Posted By: JLTD
Originally Posted By: RamFan
Glad to see that the U.S. is finally utilizing waste product for fuel rather than letting it sit in the ground.

Well said! Oil -> plastic -> oil with a little chemistry makes too much sense.

It's not "a little" chemistry, the process is thermodynamically unfavorable kind of like pig -> sausage -> pig. There will have to be a net input of energy which may come from combustion of other plastic waste.


Perhaps you should focus on the meaning of what I said - the importance of getting rid of excess plastic to make oil is a good thing - rather than my poetic license taken in the amount of chemistry required.

Or

If you had heard me in verbal conversation you would have understood my meaning better.


Pick one.


None of the above.

The polymers are assembled from monomers derived from brute force thermal cracking of crude oils & NGLs (sausage) along with some production from fluidized catalytic cracking units (FCCU's).

Assembly of the monomers into specific polymers followed by molding those polymers into desired shapes / thicknesses, etc. requiting plenty enery (pig)

Pyrolosis for thermal decomposition of poymers into char residue and petrolem /petrochemical mixture (sausage).

No more seperation science nor energy is required gor recovery from pyrolysis than yhe initial fractionation of crude oils & NGL's, with ptoper cuts then bein routed to conversion units (steam crackers, cokers, FCCU's) which then have their own fractionation trains. It's actually likely less.

I do have over 2 decades first-hand experience with such -how about you? Your profile's a ghost.

Last edited by Nyogtha; 06/16/18 10:27 PM.

"No matter how paranoid you are you're not paranoid enough. Tell the truth. Reach as many people as you can with it. That's your weapon." - Susanne Modeski, aka "Holly" to The Lone Gunmen
Re: BP Partners With Plaztics-To-Fuels Company [Re: Nyogtha] #4789367
06/17/18 05:39 PM
06/17/18 05:39 PM
Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 14,354
Canada
addyguy Offline
addyguy  Offline
Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 14,354
Canada
I'm just wondering if to feed this process reliably they are going to 'mine' plastics out of landfills, or just start diverting non-recyclable plastics from the recycling stream.

If we found an economical way to 'mine' all the plastic that has been thrown away over the decades, we'd basically have an endless feedstock source.


2010 Kia Soul 2U - 2.0L I-4, auto; 133k miles.
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Re: BP Partners With Plaztics-To-Fuels Company [Re: Nyogtha] #4818239
07/19/18 03:48 PM
07/19/18 03:48 PM
Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 14,469
Silicon Valley
PandaBear Offline
PandaBear  Offline
Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 14,469
Silicon Valley
The problem really is that we have too much plastic waste, too contaminated to be recycled profitably.

If we can burn them clean (i.e. high temp burner so no dioxin is created, and flue gas scrubbed) it would be fine. Turning them into fuel is good too. I think most of those feed stock would be free from trash pickup, and reduced cleanup cost from dumping.

I'm waiting for the day when we can easily recycle plastic trash into more valuable products, like wood substitute for construction (fiber enhanced 2x4 made out of recycled plastic?), or MDF like board for IKEA furniture.


"You keep asking questions PandaBear and you'll end up a vegetarian like my wife" - Camu Mahubah

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