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04 XC70 / M1 10w-30 / 3k miles / 8 mo / high iron! #4786246
06/13/18 09:05 PM
06/13/18 09:05 PM
Joined: Dec 2017
Posts: 412
Massachusetts
VeryNoisyPoet Offline OP
VeryNoisyPoet  Offline OP
Joined: Dec 2017
Posts: 412
Massachusetts
My dad and I bought this car for my mom last year. It had an oil change receipt shortly before the dealer got it with bulk conventional 10w-30. Oil was clean golden and at proper level when we got it, but there was some sludge visible at the top end, and by the end of summer the oil had turned almost black like diesel oil. I drained it out and also found the filter had a pleat blown wide open too, so that couldn't have helped. Put in the M1 10w-30, basic filter, and decided to run it.

But now the oil is dark again, much darker than my car at 4k and my dad's car at 5k. I know oil color may not mean much, so I pulled a sample to get it checked out before I threw away good oil. Where the heck is all that iron coming from? Everything else seems fine except for the insolubles starting to get high with a relatively short interval. This car does see some short trips, but is not getting thrashed on. It used zero oil in those 3k miles.

Only thing I could think of for iron source is possible debris getting in the cylinders when I replaced spark plugs. I cleaned the wells before removing plugs, but I could see a bunch of crud inside when I used my inspection camera to check the piston crowns. I vacuumed the cylinders out until I couldn't see the crud in the camera anymore before replacing the plugs. It idled better than ever with fresh plugs and drove fine since.

Will change this oil and filter soon then sample again in 3k or so. What are your thoughts?



1998 V70 GLT / 194k miles [10w-30 Valvoline Syn w/ Maxlife Tech + Mann W917 filter]

"Use yah blinkah!"

"Be nice. The alternative involves an air horn and 7000 lumens of high beam."
Re: 04 XC70 / M1 10w-30 / 3k miles / 8 mo / high iron! [Re: VeryNoisyPoet] #4786261
06/13/18 09:36 PM
06/13/18 09:36 PM
Joined: May 2012
Posts: 1,552
The land of USA-made Subies!
SubieRubyRoo Online content
SubieRubyRoo  Online Content
Joined: May 2012
Posts: 1,552
The land of USA-made Subies!
Use an inexpensive conventional (PYB is good) for several short OCIs to flush out whatever it was that caused the iron to be high, and also so you're not throwing money away while seeing if there is a real mechanical issue. Conventional will have no problems whatsoever on such a short OCI, and make sure to change filters each oil change if you can actually see crud under the valvecover.

I'd also buy a can of Kreen and use it as directed while you are using the PYB.

Re: 04 XC70 / M1 10w-30 / 3k miles / 8 mo / high iron! [Re: SubieRubyRoo] #4786279
06/13/18 09:54 PM
06/13/18 09:54 PM
Joined: Dec 2017
Posts: 412
Massachusetts
VeryNoisyPoet Offline OP
VeryNoisyPoet  Offline OP
Joined: Dec 2017
Posts: 412
Massachusetts
Originally Posted By: SubieRubyRoo
Use an inexpensive conventional (PYB is good) for several short OCIs to flush out whatever it was that caused the iron to be high, and also so you're not throwing money away while seeing if there is a real mechanical issue. Conventional will have no problems whatsoever on such a short OCI, and make sure to change filters each oil change if you can actually see crud under the valvecover.

I'd also buy a can of Kreen and use it as directed while you are using the PYB.

I was thinking of that sort of strategy. Bummer since we already bought some Full Synthetic Maxlife several months ago for the planned next oil change. Slightly troublesome since this car takes a little more than 6 quarts, so either needs a 5 quart jug and two singles, or two 5 quart jugs with lots left over.

How short of an OCI would you suggest? 3k again, or shorter? It will probably take until late fall or early winter to rack up another 3k.


1998 V70 GLT / 194k miles [10w-30 Valvoline Syn w/ Maxlife Tech + Mann W917 filter]

"Use yah blinkah!"

"Be nice. The alternative involves an air horn and 7000 lumens of high beam."
Re: 04 XC70 / M1 10w-30 / 3k miles / 8 mo / high iron! [Re: VeryNoisyPoet] #4786313
06/13/18 11:16 PM
06/13/18 11:16 PM
Joined: Dec 2013
Posts: 2,095
socal
barkingspider Offline
barkingspider  Offline
Joined: Dec 2013
Posts: 2,095
socal
I would go get some cheap ST 10w30 dino oil and run it for 1k miles, then change it w the Maxlife oil you have and do normal OCIs after that


06 Cadillac Escalade Ext
17 Cadillac ATS (wife)
05 Toyota Camry (daughter)
11 GMC Canyon off-road (daily)
Re: 04 XC70 / M1 10w-30 / 3k miles / 8 mo / high iron! [Re: VeryNoisyPoet] #4786333
06/14/18 12:13 AM
06/14/18 12:13 AM
Joined: Feb 2014
Posts: 2,525
Canada
Lolvoguy Offline
Lolvoguy  Offline
Joined: Feb 2014
Posts: 2,525
Canada
How's the PCV system on this engine?
Has it been rebuilt recently? Probably needs a good "once over" if it's blowing holes in oil filters.


06 Lexus IS350- Wife
88 BMW 325is- Mistress
Re: 04 XC70 / M1 10w-30 / 3k miles / 8 mo / high iron! [Re: Lolvoguy] #4786336
06/14/18 12:21 AM
06/14/18 12:21 AM
Joined: Dec 2017
Posts: 412
Massachusetts
VeryNoisyPoet Offline OP
VeryNoisyPoet  Offline OP
Joined: Dec 2017
Posts: 412
Massachusetts
Originally Posted By: Lolvoguy
How's the PCV system on this engine?
Has it been rebuilt recently? Probably needs a good "once over" if it's blowing holes in oil filters.

PCV passes the "glove test" where it pulls a vacuum at the filler cap. Original engine, just with some neglect by previous owner(s).

No idea about the filter. Cartridge style so all bypassing happens inside the engine. Just had a tear about an inch long on the valley of one of the pleats. Filter and oil were both nasty after only 3k so maybe got plugged and couldn't handle the pressure differential? Maybe somebody changed oil but not filter?


1998 V70 GLT / 194k miles [10w-30 Valvoline Syn w/ Maxlife Tech + Mann W917 filter]

"Use yah blinkah!"

"Be nice. The alternative involves an air horn and 7000 lumens of high beam."
Re: 04 XC70 / M1 10w-30 / 3k miles / 8 mo / high iron! [Re: VeryNoisyPoet] #4786410
06/14/18 06:08 AM
06/14/18 06:08 AM
Joined: Apr 2015
Posts: 280
Georgia
Charlie2015 Offline
Charlie2015  Offline
Joined: Apr 2015
Posts: 280
Georgia
Just keep the oil changes short (3-4k) while the engine cleans up. It may take 10 or 20,000 miles, but you will eventually get it very clean inside.


1998 Honda Accord EX 2.3L Auto
2009 Scion TC Manual
Re: 04 XC70 / M1 10w-30 / 3k miles / 8 mo / high iron! [Re: Charlie2015] #4786496
06/14/18 08:43 AM
06/14/18 08:43 AM
Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 7,078
Texas
4WD Offline
4WD  Offline
Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 7,078
Texas
Originally Posted By: Charlie2015
Just keep the oil changes short (3-4k) while the engine cleans up. It may take 10 or 20,000 miles, but you will eventually get it very clean inside.


This plus a Fram Ultra … leave the filter on for a couple OCI’s or so … you really don’t want another filter failure while trying to help this engine …

Re: 04 XC70 / M1 10w-30 / 3k miles / 8 mo / high iron! [Re: VeryNoisyPoet] #4786515
06/14/18 08:58 AM
06/14/18 08:58 AM
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 37,464
Ontario, Canada
OVERKILL Offline
OVERKILL  Offline
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 37,464
Ontario, Canada
Iron is likely coming out of the sludge if it is being dissolved. Iron tracks with mileage, so you have ??? miles worth of deposits which all contain debris from previous OCI's, as those come apart, that debris gets suspended and ends up in your sample.


2018 RAM 1500 Big Horn EcoDiesel
2016 Grand Cherokee SRT
Re: 04 XC70 / M1 10w-30 / 3k miles / 8 mo / high iron! [Re: 4WD] #4786533
06/14/18 09:20 AM
06/14/18 09:20 AM
Joined: Dec 2017
Posts: 412
Massachusetts
VeryNoisyPoet Offline OP
VeryNoisyPoet  Offline OP
Joined: Dec 2017
Posts: 412
Massachusetts
Originally Posted By: 4WD
Originally Posted By: Charlie2015
Just keep the oil changes short (3-4k) while the engine cleans up. It may take 10 or 20,000 miles, but you will eventually get it very clean inside.


This plus a Fram Ultra … leave the filter on for a couple OCI’s or so … you really don’t want another filter failure while trying to help this engine …

Even if I do that, I'm inspecting the filter every time I drain oil because I don't trust this system yet. Running 3k with a torn filter is bad. Going 10k+ would be terrible.


1998 V70 GLT / 194k miles [10w-30 Valvoline Syn w/ Maxlife Tech + Mann W917 filter]

"Use yah blinkah!"

"Be nice. The alternative involves an air horn and 7000 lumens of high beam."
Re: 04 XC70 / M1 10w-30 / 3k miles / 8 mo / high iron! [Re: OVERKILL] #4786536
06/14/18 09:23 AM
06/14/18 09:23 AM
Joined: Dec 2017
Posts: 412
Massachusetts
VeryNoisyPoet Offline OP
VeryNoisyPoet  Offline OP
Joined: Dec 2017
Posts: 412
Massachusetts
Originally Posted By: OVERKILL
Iron is likely coming out of the sludge if it is being dissolved. Iron tracks with mileage, so you have ??? miles worth of deposits which all contain debris from previous OCI's, as those come apart, that debris gets suspended and ends up in your sample.

I would hope this is the cause, and not some other problem eating the engine internals. The car is super clean and everything else seems to be in good shape so having it die early would be sad.


1998 V70 GLT / 194k miles [10w-30 Valvoline Syn w/ Maxlife Tech + Mann W917 filter]

"Use yah blinkah!"

"Be nice. The alternative involves an air horn and 7000 lumens of high beam."
Re: 04 XC70 / M1 10w-30 / 3k miles / 8 mo / high iron! [Re: barkingspider] #4786563
06/14/18 10:00 AM
06/14/18 10:00 AM
Joined: Dec 2017
Posts: 1,140
US
JLTD Offline
JLTD  Offline
Joined: Dec 2017
Posts: 1,140
US
Originally Posted By: barkingspider
I would go get some cheap ST 10w30 dino oil and run it for 3kmiles, then change it w the Maxlife oil you have and do normal OCIs after that


Fixed it for you --

I agree with 10w30, but 1k is a bit short. In MA, change out 10w30 before winter.

OP IMO you are washing out the previous owner's neglect. And although M1 creates more iron in many engines I don't think it can account for all of it. Check your filtration and resample at 3k.


I'm a thickie; assimilate
But 20s have their place

Using AMSOIL™

Hers: 2008 Jeep Liberty 138k, SS 5w30/Amsoil

His: 2015 4Runner 41k, OE 5w20/Wix

Re: 04 XC70 / M1 10w-30 / 3k miles / 8 mo / high iron! [Re: VeryNoisyPoet] #4786579
06/14/18 10:34 AM
06/14/18 10:34 AM
Joined: Mar 2017
Posts: 5,734
...
PimTac Offline
PimTac  Offline
Joined: Mar 2017
Posts: 5,734
...
Are you able to look inside the oil fill hole and check for sludge?


2017 Mazda CX-5 GT.

Valvoline Modern Engine 0w20
Mobil 1 EP 108A
Re: 04 XC70 / M1 10w-30 / 3k miles / 8 mo / high iron! [Re: PimTac] #4786807
06/14/18 04:16 PM
06/14/18 04:16 PM
Joined: Dec 2017
Posts: 412
Massachusetts
VeryNoisyPoet Offline OP
VeryNoisyPoet  Offline OP
Joined: Dec 2017
Posts: 412
Massachusetts
Just changed the oil, using SuperTech 10w-30 conventional and a Fram Ultra. Will sample again in maybe 2k miles. Engine purrs like nothing is wrong despite the crud inside.

Fill hole has baffles so can't see top end, but there is far more and much thicker gunk on the baffles and fill neck compared with my car:


Oil came out very dark:


Filter is all wavy looking but isn't torn. Not sure if it would have made it to 5k or more...




Filter housing has a layer of varnish inside. For comparison, the inside of the oil passages are spotless on my car with over twice as many miles (but regular oil changes).


1998 V70 GLT / 194k miles [10w-30 Valvoline Syn w/ Maxlife Tech + Mann W917 filter]

"Use yah blinkah!"

"Be nice. The alternative involves an air horn and 7000 lumens of high beam."
Re: 04 XC70 / M1 10w-30 / 3k miles / 8 mo / high iron! [Re: SubieRubyRoo] #4786916
06/14/18 06:22 PM
06/14/18 06:22 PM
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 1,656
Oshawa, Ont. Canada
irv Offline
irv  Offline
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 1,656
Oshawa, Ont. Canada
Originally Posted By: SubieRubyRoo
Use an inexpensive conventional (PYB is good) for several short OCIs to flush out whatever it was that caused the iron to be high, and also so you're not throwing money away while seeing if there is a real mechanical issue. Conventional will have no problems whatsoever on such a short OCI, and make sure to change filters each oil change if you can actually see crud under the valvecover.

I'd also buy a can of Kreen and use it as directed while you are using the PYB.


X2 on Pennzoil Yellow Bottle (PYB). Its cheap but does a great job at cleaning. A couple at around 1000 to 2000 miles should help do wonders.
After, I'd switch to PP or PUP and call it a day provided the engine is running good?


2017 Chevy Impala 3.6 L.
2013 Ram 5.7 L Hemi Bighorn QC 4x4
2008 Chevy Malibu 2.4 L Ecotec
Pennzoil Platinum and/or Pennzoil Ultra Platinum for all 3.
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