Front brake kit for the hills

Status
Not open for further replies.
Joined
Nov 11, 2010
Messages
328
Location
Pennsylvania
I need to replace my front rotors and pads, 2012 Elantra. There are a couple of hills that really heat up the brakes, looking for opinions on whether the extra cash is worth it for drilled rotors for this purpose and if yes worthwhile daily driver brands.
 
Drilled rotors are actually not a good idea. The uneven temperatures, and stress concentrations where the holes are drilled often lead to drilled rotors cracking. Just get a set of coated blanks like Centric Premium, Wagner E-shield, or EBC Premium. The ocating does help stop the rust.

For the pads, get Raybestos EHT, Akebono ProACT, or EBC Ultimax "Blackstuff"

Autoanything usually has the best price on EBC if you choose that brand.

Also consider using high-temp fluid like Bosch ESI6, Pentosin LV, Wagner Severe Duty, or Ravenol DOT 5.1. Any of the above have higher boiling points and lower viscosity than ordinary DOT 3. Speed bleeders are awesome
smile.gif
 
Why would reputable brake companies like EBC, Power Stop, etc.even sell drilled rotors if they are OFTEN prone to cracking ? In fact they even sell their daily driver upgrade kits drilled and slotted.
 
Originally Posted By: madeej11
Why would reputable brake companies like EBC, Power Stop, etc.even sell drilled rotors if they are OFTEN prone to cracking ? In fact they even sell their daily driver upgrade kits drilled and slotted.

Because they can make a buck.
 
If you want more performance, you should get good quality normal rotors.

Akebonos are the most expensive pad on rockauto for my car, I just cannot justify the cost for a high end ceramic pad when I don't care about brake dust. I would rather a performance pad than BITOG's favorite pad for grampa's Camry.

Flush your brakes while you are at it. Just stick with DOT 4, no need for anything fancy.
 
Originally Posted By: slacktide_bitog
Drilled rotors are actually not a good idea.

Hmm... You should tell:

Porsche
BMW
Mercedes
Audi
Ferrari
Lamborghini

And countless others. Yes, you may see cracking in drilled rotors - at the end of their life.
 
Drilled rotors might, might help with wet weather braking. But with modern quality pads, i'm not even sure that is the case anymore. Drilled rotors have less mass, heat up faster and probably have less brake pad contact area. People buy them for looks, and because they think its high performance.
 
Last edited:
Don’t get drilled or slotted rotors, it’s a waste of money and actually decreases surface area of the rotor which isn’t good. Why do companies sell drilled or slotted rotors for the street in stock rotor sizes? Because people see rotors that look similarly machined on race cars, but that are much bigger and usually these days now carbon-ceramic, and equate the look of these things with better performance, There’s so many more factors than that though.

Change your fluid for sure if you haven’t for a couple years. Old fluid contains moisture that accumulates in the braking system over time, and moisture in the fluid lowers the boiling point of the fluid. That’s what causes a soft brake pedal, aka brake fade, when the brakes get hot. The heat from the rotors and pads transfers to the caliper and fluid, and the fluid starts to boil. New fluid is key.

For pads, I am using Akebono ProAct right now, and despite what somebody else said about them being for grandpa Camrys, well I doubt they have ever owned these pads before. They are great pads and also have little to no dusting and zero noise which is nice. Ceramic pad have a slightly different feel at the pedal than semi metallics, but I like the stopping power of these Akebonos better than the semi metallics that I had previously.
 
Originally Posted By: rooflessVW
Originally Posted By: slacktide_bitog
Drilled rotors are actually not a good idea.

Hmm... You should tell:

Porsche
BMW
Mercedes
Audi
Ferrari
Lamborghini

And countless others. Yes, you may see cracking in drilled rotors - at the end of their life.


I'll bet those OEM rotors are considerably higher quality than Power Stop and probably EBC too. Nothing is stopping anyone from drilling holes in the cheapest Chinese rotors and marketing them as performance parts.
 
Originally Posted By: rooflessVW
Originally Posted By: slacktide_bitog
Drilled rotors are actually not a good idea.

Hmm... You should tell:

Porsche
BMW
Mercedes
Audi
Ferrari
Lamborghini

And countless others. Yes, you may see cracking in drilled rotors - at the end of their life.


Almost 100% of those cars have carbon-ceramic brakes when you see cross drilling, the rotors are way larger, and they have much more surface area than a stock Hyundai steel rotor to compensate and then some. It’s apples to oranges vs replacing a regular (small) iron blank with rotors that you paid to have swiss-cheesed.
 
Originally Posted By: cheesepuffs
For pads, I am using Akebono ProAct right now, and despite what somebody else said about them being for grandpa Camrys, well I doubt they have ever owned these pads before. They are great pads and also have little to no dusting and zero noise which is nice. Ceramic pad have a slightly different feel at the pedal than semi metallics, but I like the stopping power of these Akebonos better than the semi metallics that I had previously.


I said that they were a premium price brake pad. When you get to that price level, you have other options.

If I want more braking performance because I have to drive down hills all the time, why would I buy a high end OE replacement pad when I could get something more suitable?

Stop gatekeeping.
 
Originally Posted By: maxdustington
Originally Posted By: rooflessVW
Originally Posted By: slacktide_bitog
Drilled rotors are actually not a good idea.

Hmm... You should tell:

Porsche
BMW
Mercedes
Audi
Ferrari
Lamborghini

And countless others. Yes, you may see cracking in drilled rotors - at the end of their life.


I'll bet those OEM rotors are considerably higher quality than Power Stop and probably EBC too. Nothing is stopping anyone from drilling holes in the cheapest Chinese rotors and marketing them as performance parts.


Exactly. Companies make tons of money selling “hot air intakes” to people that don’t know any better either. Doesn’t make it a legit improvement to your car just because it’s available.
 
Originally Posted By: maxdustington
Originally Posted By: cheesepuffs
For pads, I am using Akebono ProAct right now, and despite what somebody else said about them being for grandpa Camrys, well I doubt they have ever owned these pads before. They are great pads and also have little to no dusting and zero noise which is nice. Ceramic pad have a slightly different feel at the pedal than semi metallics, but I like the stopping power of these Akebonos better than the semi metallics that I had previously.


I said that they were a premium price brake pad. When you get to that price level, you have other options.

If I want more braking performance because I have to drive down hills all the time, why would I buy a high end OE replacement pad when I could get something more suitable?

Stop gatekeeping.


You offered no alternative, only saying that you don’t care about brake dust, but the reality is that most people in 2018 want low dust. That’s why the aftermarket and OEM applications alike are flooded with ceramic pads. What’s your pad of choice then, some Hawk HPS’s that are going to cost even more money, and make his daily driver look filthy within hours of use? The days of ceramics being a compromise in performance are over.
 
I believe EBC manufactures their rotors in UK.My Power Stops far outlasted my Toyota's originals and the stopping power was much better. Sometimes OEM is not always best. I also don't think say a Lexus rotor's quality is any better than Toyota. But they sure charge you more. Not everything coming from China is junk, can't make that blanket statement anymore.
 
Originally Posted By: cheesepuffs
Originally Posted By: rooflessVW
Originally Posted By: slacktide_bitog
Drilled rotors are actually not a good idea.

Hmm... You should tell:

Porsche
BMW
Mercedes
Audi
Ferrari
Lamborghini

And countless others. Yes, you may see cracking in drilled rotors - at the end of their life.


Almost 100% of those cars have carbon-ceramic brakes when you see cross drilling, the rotors are way larger, and they have much more surface area than a stock Hyundai steel rotor to compensate and then some. It’s apples to oranges vs replacing a regular (small) iron blank with rotors that you paid to have swiss-cheesed.


Mercedes I think are still semi-metallic in certain applications which is why everyone complains about brake dust. Never really heard of anyone complaining about the rotors cracking, mostly poor braking performance from the high end models. Not sure if those guys are just harder on their brakes or because it's the number of pistons and rotors that MB uses as they go up the ladder in performance, I think AMG has 6 piston calipers and the lower levels may be just two or four, but the basic one is a single piston and not too many complaints there. You can pay over 2k just for rotors on an E63 AMG. The base E350's were more like $100 for Centric rotors. On the MB rotors, factory is actually thick enough that you can get away with reusing the rotors for the 2nd set of pads instead of always replacing them. So yeah, while Akebono pads might be $50 instead of some cheap $20 or $30 pad, you don't end up spending extra on a set of rotors each time.
 
Originally Posted By: Wolf359
Originally Posted By: cheesepuffs
Originally Posted By: rooflessVW
Originally Posted By: slacktide_bitog
Drilled rotors are actually not a good idea.

Hmm... You should tell:

Porsche
BMW
Mercedes
Audi
Ferrari
Lamborghini

And countless others. Yes, you may see cracking in drilled rotors - at the end of their life.


Almost 100% of those cars have carbon-ceramic brakes when you see cross drilling, the rotors are way larger, and they have much more surface area than a stock Hyundai steel rotor to compensate and then some. It’s apples to oranges vs replacing a regular (small) iron blank with rotors that you paid to have swiss-cheesed.


Mercedes I think are still semi-metallic in certain applications which is why everyone complains about brake dust. Never really heard of anyone complaining about the rotors cracking, mostly poor braking performance from the high end models. Not sure if those guys are just harder on their brakes or because it's the number of pistons and rotors that MB uses as they go up the ladder in performance, I think AMG has 6 piston calipers and the lower levels may be just two or four, but the basic one is a single piston and not too many complaints there. You can pay over 2k just for rotors on an E63 AMG. The base E350's were more like $100 for Centric rotors. On the MB rotors, factory is actually thick enough that you can get away with reusing the rotors for the 2nd set of pads instead of always replacing them. So yeah, while Akebono pads might be $50 instead of some cheap $20 or $30 pad, you don't end up spending extra on a set of rotors each time.


Good point about ceramics being easier on rotors too. The stopping power is still there now with the current pad formulations, but rotors do last longer.

As far as MB rotors being thick enough to reuse, just as an FYI, almost every single rotor can be machined and reused within spec once if not twice. It just isn’t practiced much anymore by DIYers because the price of rotors has fallen off since years past, and now you can sometimes get new rotors for the same price as having your old ones turned. Shops machine rotors as a service all the time though, with the industry moving to on-car brake lathes around ten years ago or so that are very nice and ensure a true runout dimension while the rotor is in position on the hub.
 
Originally Posted By: madeej11
I believe EBC manufactures their rotors in UK.My Power Stops far outlasted my Toyota's originals and the stopping power was much better. Sometimes OEM is not always best. I also don't think say a Lexus rotor's quality is any better than Toyota. But they sure charge you more. Not everything coming from China is junk, can't make that blanket statement anymore.


I don’t know factually either way, but there is a chance that Lexus rotors are held to a tighter machining tolerance than Toyota rotors, for less lateral runout, which could explain the increased cost. Maybe not, but it would make sense.
 
Originally Posted By: rooflessVW
Originally Posted By: slacktide_bitog
Drilled rotors are actually not a good idea.

Hmm... You should tell:

Porsche
BMW
Mercedes
Audi
Ferrari
Lamborghini

And countless others. Yes, you may see cracking in drilled rotors - at the end of their life.


They already know, and even admit it themselves.

Also, those OEM Porsche/BMW/etc. drilled rotors cost a lot more, mostly because the process for making decent "drilled" rotors that won't crack in 3 months is much more involved. Actually, they're not even actually drilled. They are cast. Their holes are round at the edges, not bored straight thru like cheap drilled rotors you see on eBay.

The only drilled rotors worth buying are DBA, and the premium OEM rotors you mention. All are hideously expensive (like $200+ per rotor).

Cracking rotors is the very definition of the end of their life
smile.gif



Originally Posted By: madeej11
Why would reputable brake companies like EBC, Power Stop, etc.even sell drilled rotors if they are OFTEN prone to cracking ? In fact they even sell their daily driver upgrade kits drilled and slotted.


Because they want to make money, hint: Fast and Furious

Other examples include K&N air filters and blue headlights. Not really upgrades, but people still line up to buy them and pay a premium.

3c5c9ea86c2988d8bc2e756c1035e600d79ed35b.png
 
I don't really have a recommendation on pads, I usually just use ceramic Wagner Thermo Quiets because they produce virtually no dust and are generally quiet. Are there pads out there that stop a few feet shorter from 60mph? Probably. 99 times out of 100 though these factors - speed, following distance, situational awareness and decent tires are way more important than ultimate brake pad performance. Especially on modern ABS cars.

I notice the car in question is a standard shift. I never advocate downshifting through the gears to "save the brakes." I would rather do a dozen brake jobs than one clutch job or synchronizer replacement. With that said, if these big hills you are talking about are on the highway I assume, being in the correct gear as you descend down can make a big difference on what is asked of the brakes. Perhaps 4th gear instead of 5th gear. Obviously want to use some sort of engine braking, not neutral or clutch depressed. Chances are you are already employing this tactic and can ignore my entire post.

YMMV
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top