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#4783371 - 06/10/18 08:46 PM Graph of oil temp, ATF temp, and MAP
VeryNoisyPoet Online   content


Registered: 12/16/17
Posts: 291
Loc: Massachusetts
Not entirely sure if this post fits here or in the ATF, Differential, Trans, Brakes, P/S forum, or somewhere else.

I got my data logging program working and made a graph of all three sensors for a drive on surface streets and a drive on the highway. The temp sensors may need adjustments and better insulation, but the data seems to make sense. Soon I hope to have sensors for coolant temp and oil pressure hooked up as well.

Any other ideas for things I should slap a sensor on to record?

Surface streets up into the city (car was already partially warmed up):



Highway drive, light traffic at about 70 mph:





Edited by VeryNoisyPoet (06/10/18 08:50 PM)
Edit Reason: clarity
_________________________
1998 V70 GLT / 187k miles

"Use yah blinkah!"

"Be nice. The alternative involves an air horn and 7000 lumens of high beam."

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#4783385 - 06/10/18 08:58 PM Re: Graph of oil temp, ATF temp, and MAP [Re: VeryNoisyPoet]
Snagglefoot Offline


Registered: 12/31/17
Posts: 1771
Loc: Alberta
Thats excellent. Where were you getting the oil temp? It would also be cool to plot air temp or at least get one reading to see what the oil temp gets to on a hot day.

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#4783388 - 06/10/18 09:01 PM Re: Graph of oil temp, ATF temp, and MAP [Re: VeryNoisyPoet]
Linctex Offline


Registered: 12/31/16
Posts: 6178
Loc: Waco, TX
The bottom (time) is in seconds?
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"The evidence demands a verdict".
(Re:VOA)"it's nearly impossible to actually know the particular additives that are in there at what concentrations."

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#4783389 - 06/10/18 09:02 PM Re: Graph of oil temp, ATF temp, and MAP [Re: Snagglefoot]
VeryNoisyPoet Online   content


Registered: 12/16/17
Posts: 291
Loc: Massachusetts
Originally Posted By: Snagglefoot
Thats excellent. Where were you getting the oil temp? It would also be cool to plot air temp or at least get one reading to see what the oil temp gets to on a hot day.

Oil temp taken on the outside of the passage from pump to oil thermostat. See this post for more info: https://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php/topics/4770523

I was thinking an ambient temp sensor as well. Perhaps I can tap into the car's existing thermometer for that. Underhood temps could be interesting to look at too.
_________________________
1998 V70 GLT / 187k miles

"Use yah blinkah!"

"Be nice. The alternative involves an air horn and 7000 lumens of high beam."

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#4783393 - 06/10/18 09:04 PM Re: Graph of oil temp, ATF temp, and MAP [Re: Linctex]
VeryNoisyPoet Online   content


Registered: 12/16/17
Posts: 291
Loc: Massachusetts
Originally Posted By: Linctex
The bottom (time) is in seconds?

Yes.

Seconds since the program started is the easiest source for X axis data. I have a real time clock so I also have a real time stamp, but that doesn't seem to play nice when graphing.
_________________________
1998 V70 GLT / 187k miles

"Use yah blinkah!"

"Be nice. The alternative involves an air horn and 7000 lumens of high beam."

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#4783408 - 06/10/18 09:23 PM Re: Graph of oil temp, ATF temp, and MAP [Re: VeryNoisyPoet]
Shannow Offline


Registered: 12/12/02
Posts: 39927
Loc: 'Stralia
That's very cool.

Could you please do a test to validate my testing on the Caprice ?

(I only shut off the engine, dropped it into Neutraal and pulled off the road, dropping a type K thermocouple down the dipstick tube....nothing as flash as yours).

Test A
Drive on the highway in "D", then repeat for same speed (same road load) in "2" 1,800 RPM versus nearly 4,000RPM, same road load. 95C in the first, 125-135C in the second.

Test B
Warm-up letting the trans shift itself versus holding it at 2,500 to 3,000. Noticeably quicker warmup.

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#4783418 - 06/10/18 09:36 PM Re: Graph of oil temp, ATF temp, and MAP [Re: Shannow]
VeryNoisyPoet Online   content


Registered: 12/16/17
Posts: 291
Loc: Massachusetts
Originally Posted By: Shannow
That's very cool.

Could you please do a test to validate my testing on the Caprice ?

(I only shut off the engine, dropped it into Neutraal and pulled off the road, dropping a type K thermocouple down the dipstick tube....nothing as flash as yours).

Test A
Drive on the highway in "D", then repeat for same speed (same road load) in "2" 1,800 RPM versus nearly 4,000RPM, same road load. 95C in the first, 125-135C in the second.

Test B
Warm-up letting the trans shift itself versus holding it at 2,500 to 3,000. Noticeably quicker warmup.

I'll see what I can do. 2nd gear for me would be howling near redline at highway speeds, plus the torque converter does not lock in 2nd. I can try 3rd which will allow lockup and have the motor turning a more sane 3500 rpm. 4th is about 2450 at 75 mph as a reference.

I can try the warmup in lower gears as well.

Mine has an oil to coolant heat exchanger with thermostatic control, so oil warms up relatively quick but has a lot of heat dissipation once it gets hotter than that. 135C is a lot considering that my coolant runs around 91C on highway cruising and might rise to 105C at sustained high RPM and high load.
_________________________
1998 V70 GLT / 187k miles

"Use yah blinkah!"

"Be nice. The alternative involves an air horn and 7000 lumens of high beam."

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#4783420 - 06/10/18 09:37 PM Re: Graph of oil temp, ATF temp, and MAP [Re: VeryNoisyPoet]
CT8 Offline


Registered: 10/09/14
Posts: 11017
Loc: Idaho
The torque converter generates lots of heat when unlocked.
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"Don't let your preconceived notions get in the way of facts."
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#4783434 - 06/10/18 09:47 PM Re: Graph of oil temp, ATF temp, and MAP [Re: CT8]
VeryNoisyPoet Online   content


Registered: 12/16/17
Posts: 291
Loc: Massachusetts
Originally Posted By: CT8
The torque converter generates lots of heat when unlocked.

Indeed. This data shows the spikes clearly since it takes readings on the hot line going to the transmission cooler.

In the first graph, lots of stop and go and generally slow traffic without much airflow has it heat right up until my data logger computer kicks on the cooling fan.

In the second graph, you can clearly see the peaks where I entered the highway and then accelerated after a slow section of traffic, then how it rises again once I'm back on surface streets.
_________________________
1998 V70 GLT / 187k miles

"Use yah blinkah!"

"Be nice. The alternative involves an air horn and 7000 lumens of high beam."

Top
#4783552 - 06/11/18 04:50 AM Re: Graph of oil temp, ATF temp, and MAP [Re: Snagglefoot]
OilUzer Offline


Registered: 07/31/17
Posts: 140
Loc: WA
Originally Posted By: VeryNoisyPoet
... Soon I hope to have sensors for coolant temp and oil pressure hooked up as well.

Any other ideas for things I should slap a sensor on to record?


Originally Posted By: Snagglefoot
Thats excellent. Where were you getting the oil temp? It would also be cool to plot air temp or at least get one reading to see what the oil temp gets to on a hot day.


Don't know your exact setup ... short of having your own sensors, can you integrate coolant temp and IAT from OBD II? With some cars you can also read outside air temp. I can with one of our cars.

If not, IAT typically tracks ambient temp if the car is moving. Based on my experience with 3 different cars, IAT is about 6F to 12F higher than outside temp. and with one car, I consistently read about 10F above ambient temp. In both cases and for obvious reason, the car has to be moving at a relatively good speed and for a relatively extended period of time after a long idle. For example if you are in stop and go, IAF could get as high as 40-50F or more above the outside temp!

Effects of higher ambient temp on oil and coolant temp. is not linear. e.g. If outside temp is 50F higher from one test to another, don't expect the coolant and/or oil temp. to follow.
@shannow recently had a link in one of his post to another one of his old threads (i call it the facy curve thread) talking about this ...

Based on my experience/data, i have noticed minimal (but not 0) impact. don't have my excel sheets in front of me but if I recall correctly, i have bunch of data @ 40F and lower in winter vs. 80F and higher in summer and the max coolant temp. observed in summer was only 5-8F higher going up the same steep hill. If the car was moving on flats, maybe 5F difference max.

I can read my trans temp (TC and Pan) but don't have ways to track the engine oil temp. it is under to do list for one of the cars mainly out of curiosity but it should track the coolant temp closely (+15F to +40F ?? Depending on the car)...

basically I observed minimal (5F-8F) difference in coolant temp with respect to ~45F difference in ambient temp. However have a feeling that ambient temp may have more impact (>5-8F) on the oil temp. than it has on the coolant temperature. Maybe more instantaneous difference ... hence one of my to do list of reading the oil temp grin
But it all depends on where the data is collected and so many other variables ...

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#4783560 - 06/11/18 05:11 AM Re: Graph of oil temp, ATF temp, and MAP [Re: VeryNoisyPoet]
OilUzer Offline


Registered: 07/31/17
Posts: 140
Loc: WA
"fancy curve thread" i was talking about:
engine warm-up discussion

oil/coolant temp vs. ambient temp is not the main subject but there are a lot of discussions about it.


Edited by OilUzer (06/11/18 05:18 AM)

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#4783597 - 06/11/18 07:20 AM Re: Graph of oil temp, ATF temp, and MAP [Re: VeryNoisyPoet]
SHOZ Online   shocked


Registered: 06/28/03
Posts: 5751
Loc: Illinois
I have two oil temp sensors on my Gen Coupe. The factory one is up in the head near the oil control solenoid for the cams and the other is just after the filter and is connected to a gauge.

The filter sensor will run hotter than the head sensor until about 140F. Then the head sensor starts to read higher and generally will run around 10F hotter once warmed up. If after it's warmed up I let the car idle, then the two will begin to read closer together and eventually will read the same as the oil filter senor increases in temp.

Coolant temps are consistent at around 185F-187F. Peak oil temp is seen when cruising down the highway with the higher the engine load(car speed)the higher the oil temp. With +90F ambient temps, AC on and 70 mph cruising I see around 210F oil temps at the head.
_________________________
2008 Hyundai Accent 1.6L 5 sp manual hatchback
2010 Hyundai Genesis Coupe Track 2L Turbo 6sp manual

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#4783634 - 06/11/18 08:25 AM Re: Graph of oil temp, ATF temp, and MAP [Re: OilUzer]
VeryNoisyPoet Online   content


Registered: 12/16/17
Posts: 291
Loc: Massachusetts
Originally Posted By: OilUzer
Don't know your exact setup ... short of having your own sensors, can you integrate coolant temp and IAT from OBD II? With some cars you can also read outside air temp. I can with one of our cars.

Pulling data from OBD II will be tough since I already have a Scanguage hooked up for fuel economy display and reading trouble codes. I do have ideas about reading sensors in parallel, since the car uses 5 volts and shared ground just like my Arduino.
Quote:
If not, IAT typically tracks ambient temp if the car is moving. Based on my experience with 3 different cars, IAT is about 6F to 12F higher than outside temp. and with one car, I consistently read about 10F above ambient temp. In both cases and for obvious reason, the car has to be moving at a relatively good speed and for a relatively extended period of time after a long idle. For example if you are in stop and go, IAF could get as high as 40-50F or more above the outside temp!

IAT is strange on my car, as it seems to read a few degrees lower on OBD II compared to the ambient temp. It did the same thing before and after a MAF replacement so not sure what's happening there.
Quote:
Effects of higher ambient temp on oil and coolant temp. is not linear. e.g. If outside temp is 50F higher from one test to another, don't expect the coolant and/or oil temp. to follow.
@shannow recently had a link in one of his post to another one of his old threads (i call it the facy curve thread) talking about this ...

Very cool! One of the reasons why I love this forum.
Quote:
Based on my experience/data, i have noticed minimal (but not 0) impact. don't have my excel sheets in front of me but if I recall correctly, i have bunch of data @ 40F and lower in winter vs. 80F and higher in summer and the max coolant temp. observed in summer was only 5-8F higher going up the same steep hill. If the car was moving on flats, maybe 5F difference max.

Sounds about right if the cooling system is in good shape and the vehicle isn't overloaded. Mine didn't get much hotter even when climbing a grade in 110 degree southwest heat last summer.
Quote:
I can read my trans temp (TC and Pan) but don't have ways to track the engine oil temp. it is under to do list for one of the cars mainly out of curiosity but it should track the coolant temp closely (+15F to +40F ?? Depending on the car)...

It should run lower than coolant temp. Transmissions aren't happy running too hot, so +15 to +40 compared to coolant would fry the transmission in short order. Before I added an external cooler, mine ran 10+ degrees below coolant temp unless I was pushing it. Now with cooler, transmission thermostat, and extra fan control, I've never seen it more than 94C / 201F even when working hard.
Quote:
basically I observed minimal (5F-8F) difference in coolant temp with respect to ~45F difference in ambient temp. However have a feeling that ambient temp may have more impact (>5-8F) on the oil temp. than it has on the coolant temperature. Maybe more instantaneous difference ... hence one of my to do list of reading the oil temp grin
But it all depends on where the data is collected and so many other variables ...

Yeah. I'm interested to see what happens there. My oil is thermostatically controlled, so that may behave closer to the coolant instead since the hotter it gets the more cooling capacity opens up.
_________________________
1998 V70 GLT / 187k miles

"Use yah blinkah!"

"Be nice. The alternative involves an air horn and 7000 lumens of high beam."

Top
#4783637 - 06/11/18 08:32 AM Re: Graph of oil temp, ATF temp, and MAP [Re: SHOZ]
VeryNoisyPoet Online   content


Registered: 12/16/17
Posts: 291
Loc: Massachusetts
Originally Posted By: SHOZ
I have two oil temp sensors on my Gen Coupe. The factory one is up in the head near the oil control solenoid for the cams and the other is just after the filter and is connected to a gauge.

The filter sensor will run hotter than the head sensor until about 140F. Then the head sensor starts to read higher and generally will run around 10F hotter once warmed up. If after it's warmed up I let the car idle, then the two will begin to read closer together and eventually will read the same as the oil filter senor increases in temp.

Coolant temps are consistent at around 185F-187F. Peak oil temp is seen when cruising down the highway with the higher the engine load(car speed)the higher the oil temp. With +90F ambient temps, AC on and 70 mph cruising I see around 210F oil temps at the head.

That's cool you have two data points to work with there. Makes sense that filter temp would be lower when moving, since that usually is after any oil cooling system, whereas the head is exposed to more heat. How hot do the temps go when idling around in slow traffic?
_________________________
1998 V70 GLT / 187k miles

"Use yah blinkah!"

"Be nice. The alternative involves an air horn and 7000 lumens of high beam."

Top
#4783642 - 06/11/18 08:39 AM Re: Graph of oil temp, ATF temp, and MAP [Re: VeryNoisyPoet]
SHOZ Online   shocked


Registered: 06/28/03
Posts: 5751
Loc: Illinois
Quote:

That's cool you have two data points to work with there. Makes sense that filter temp would be lower when moving, since that usually is after any oil cooling system, whereas the head is exposed to more heat. How hot do the temps go when idling around in slow traffic?
It will drop to just a bit over coolant temp with prolonged idling. But a quick slow down and then accelerating to highway speeds will bring it up higher than it was when cruising. This drops back in a few miles.

There is no active cooling with the oil. I use to have an oil filter heat exchanger but took it off due to complexity and difficulty working with all the coolant hoses. It also forced me to use a non spec oil filter due to size restriction.
_________________________
2008 Hyundai Accent 1.6L 5 sp manual hatchback
2010 Hyundai Genesis Coupe Track 2L Turbo 6sp manual

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