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Unfortunately, It's new A/C time #4781085
06/08/18 08:38 AM
06/08/18 08:38 AM
Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 3,308
Ohio
Tdbo Offline OP
Tdbo  Offline OP

Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 3,308
Ohio
We have a 3 ton 13 SEER Ruud A/C system circa 2001 that started short cycling on Sunday.
Had my tech up today. Got the news that I knew was coming.
Leaking R-12, not totally empty, but is going to need more than a dribble at $100/lb.
I figure that recharging with a leak is ridiculous at a hundo a pound, labor to track it down isn't cheap (and not always successful) and at 17 years, I know the equipment is about played out.
So now looking at replacement. He has access to Tempstar (Carrier), American Standard (Trane) or he may be able to access another Ruud. Looking at $3600.installed.
I'm looking at going with another 13 SEER, all three are mid grade equipment, per my request.
He is recommending the Tempstar. I'm not really brand specific. Out of the litter presented, opinions please.


2012 Honda Accord LX-P 95K
2008 Ford Mustang Pony Package Convertible 17K
2006 Honda Odyssey EX-L 76K
2003 Ford Ranger 3.0 Supercab 115K
Re: Unfortunately, It's new A/C time [Re: Tdbo] #4781089
06/08/18 08:48 AM
06/08/18 08:48 AM
Joined: Jun 2009
Posts: 285
Texas
2009Edge Offline
2009Edge  Offline

Joined: Jun 2009
Posts: 285
Texas

I had an American Standard heat pump installed last September 15 SEER and love it.

Power bill went down.

Re: Unfortunately, It's new A/C time [Re: Tdbo] #4781091
06/08/18 08:48 AM
06/08/18 08:48 AM
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 1,631
North Carolina
Rat407 Offline
Rat407  Offline

Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 1,631
North Carolina
American Standard is all over the place around here. I have an old Trane, old as in 1991 old. Keeping fingers crossed that it lasts a few more years before we move. Knocking on wood. I know that when we do have it replaced all the duct work will have to be as well. So it will be expensive.

My next door neighbor had theirs replaced two years ago and it seems they have had to have someone come out at least once a year.

My sister had hers replaced and with seasonal "tuneups" she had to have it repaired several times in the past few years.

Just seems like they don't make them like they use to anymore.

Last edited by Rat407; 06/08/18 08:50 AM.

2002 Silverado 5.3 0w-20 AMSOIL®
Re: Unfortunately, It's new A/C time [Re: Tdbo] #4781103
06/08/18 09:01 AM
06/08/18 09:01 AM
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 160
Olathe, KS
CARJ Offline
CARJ  Offline

Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 160
Olathe, KS
We had to replace our 17 year old a/c last summer. I think it was about $4000 (with a new Nest thermostat). Power savings over the last year has certainly been nice.


2004 Toyota 4Runner | 182k | Castrol GTX HM 5w-30, PH8A
2012 VW Passat | 86k | PPHM/Redline 5w-30, XG9911
Re: Unfortunately, It's new A/C time [Re: 2009Edge] #4781105
06/08/18 09:04 AM
06/08/18 09:04 AM
Joined: Sep 2013
Posts: 10,842
Indiana
dlundblad Offline
dlundblad  Offline

Joined: Sep 2013
Posts: 10,842
Indiana
Originally Posted By: 2009Edge

I had an American Standard heat pump installed last September 15 SEER and love it.

Power bill went down.


What was the installed fee though?


03 Jeep WJ 4.0 202k Edge 10w40 HM Fram XG16
02 Volvo S60 2.4T 186k M1 0w40 Mahle OX149D
97 Chevy Blazer 4.3 153k Synpower 5w30 Supertech ST3980 (Ecore)

Re: Unfortunately, It's new A/C time [Re: Tdbo] #4781113
06/08/18 09:11 AM
06/08/18 09:11 AM
Joined: Jul 2013
Posts: 2,380
OBX & Central FL
NormanBuntz Online content
NormanBuntz  Online Content

Joined: Jul 2013
Posts: 2,380
OBX & Central FL
$3,600 seems surprisingly cheap to replace both indoor and outdoor units, although I know that straight AC systems are cheaper than heat pumps like I have. I've had good service from Trane, American Standard and Carrier. Next week I'm replacing a 5 ton York heat pump system that's 15 years old. It takes a beating located on the salty waterfront.

For you, why not upgrade to at least a 15 or 16 SEER? It will pay over the long run. In fact, here in NC 14 SEER is the minimum allowed by state or local code.


2017 Honda Odyssey SE, 18K
2013 Honda Accord LX, 59K
2007 Honda Ridgeline RTS, 89K
2007 Infiniti M35, 107K
Re: Unfortunately, It's new A/C time [Re: Tdbo] #4781123
06/08/18 09:23 AM
06/08/18 09:23 AM
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 3,366
Raleigh ,NC CSA
rshaw125 Offline
rshaw125  Offline

Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 3,366
Raleigh ,NC CSA
So the system works fine when it's charged? I would want to know where the leak is first. R12 is plentiful and easy to get because they have been recovering it for years. $100 a pound? Nonsense. 30 pound cylinders can be had for $200.


2012 Porsche Carrera S
2016 Ford Edge 2.0
2002 Taurus Vulcan SOLD
2006 Explorer SOLD
Re: Unfortunately, It's new A/C time [Re: Tdbo] #4781126
06/08/18 09:27 AM
06/08/18 09:27 AM
Joined: Sep 2014
Posts: 1,531
Toronto Canada
WobblyElvis Online content
WobblyElvis  Online Content

Joined: Sep 2014
Posts: 1,531
Toronto Canada
In this thread "Eddie" says a new unit only saved him $6/month. If this is correct does it makes sense to replace an AC unit or repair what you have. Something to think about.
https://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php/ubb/showflat/Number/4772168/Searchpage/2/Main/290241/Words/saved/Search/true/Re:_Should_I_look_into_replaci#Post4772168

Re: Unfortunately, It's new A/C time [Re: WobblyElvis] #4781138
06/08/18 09:35 AM
06/08/18 09:35 AM
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 3,366
Raleigh ,NC CSA
rshaw125 Offline
rshaw125  Offline

Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 3,366
Raleigh ,NC CSA
Originally Posted By: WobblyElvis
In this thread "Eddie" says a new unit only saved him $6/month. If this is correct does it makes sense to replace an AC unit or repair what you have. Something to think about.
https://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php/ubb/showflat/Number/4772168/Searchpage/2/Main/290241/Words/saved/Search/true/Re:_Should_I_look_into_replaci#Post4772168



Replace it when it can't be repaired at a reasonable cost. A hole can be found with a detector and possibly repaired.


2012 Porsche Carrera S
2016 Ford Edge 2.0
2002 Taurus Vulcan SOLD
2006 Explorer SOLD
Re: Unfortunately, It's new A/C time [Re: NormanBuntz] #4781142
06/08/18 09:36 AM
06/08/18 09:36 AM
Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 3,308
Ohio
Tdbo Offline OP
Tdbo  Offline OP

Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 3,308
Ohio
Originally Posted By: NormanBuntz
$3,600 seems surprisingly cheap to replace both indoor and outdoor units, although I know that straight AC systems are cheaper than heat pumps like I have. I've had good service from Trane, American Standard and Carrier. Next week I'm replacing a 5 ton York heat pump system that's 15 years old. It takes a beating located on the salty waterfront.

For you, why not upgrade to at least a 15 or 16 SEER? It will pay over the long run. In fact, here in NC 14 SEER is the minimum allowed by state or local code.



The price is for the outdoor A/C unit and the coil(inside)installed. I will be using my current RUUD 90+ furnace until it bites it.

My current tech today recommended the 13 SEER, and when I did my homework back in '02 when I had the RUUD installed, found the 13 to be the sweet spot in both payback and complexity/reliability of system. Electric is reasonable around here, and this system replacement puts me financially where I want to be.

I've generally found mid grade equipment to provide the best value over time. I've been happy with this system and actually pushed three installers to quote the equipment that I ended up purchasing. Actually the tech that installed the system I have now was highly recommended, but he wanted to install Janitrol or York. I wanted Rheem at the time, and he was able to access the RUUD twin. I'd have had him do it, but he is now installing equipment up above, or in a warm, intemperate climate.


2012 Honda Accord LX-P 95K
2008 Ford Mustang Pony Package Convertible 17K
2006 Honda Odyssey EX-L 76K
2003 Ford Ranger 3.0 Supercab 115K
Re: Unfortunately, It's new A/C time [Re: Tdbo] #4781161
06/08/18 09:48 AM
06/08/18 09:48 AM
Joined: Jan 2013
Posts: 1,676
Wisconsin
WiskyBadger Offline
WiskyBadger  Offline

Joined: Jan 2013
Posts: 1,676
Wisconsin
We just had a 2 stage 100,000 btu Ameristar furnace and 13 Seer 3 ton Ameristar AC put it last weekend at our house. My cousin got everything and installed it for a killer deal $5,000. Anyhow he told me Ameristar is identical to Trane on the inside, they’re just not painted like the Tranes are. They are galvanized. So far so good on the AC in the last week, a lot better then the 1988 Carrier unit it replaced. Obviously we haven’t run the furnace yet other then startup so I can’t report on that. Can’t report on energy savings yet either, haven’t gotten a recent bill to do the math.

Last edited by WiskyBadger; 06/08/18 09:53 AM.

14 Buick Verano �Blanche� 61k Castrol Edge & Delco filter
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78 Chevy Stepside
11 Chevy Traverse 114k Carquest 5w30 and Carquest filter
Re: Unfortunately, It's new A/C time [Re: rshaw125] #4781174
06/08/18 10:00 AM
06/08/18 10:00 AM
Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 3,308
Ohio
Tdbo Offline OP
Tdbo  Offline OP

Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 3,308
Ohio
Originally Posted By: rshaw125
Originally Posted By: WobblyElvis
In this thread "Eddie" says a new unit only saved him $6/month. If this is correct does it makes sense to replace an AC unit or repair what you have. Something to think about.
https://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php/ubb/showflat/Number/4772168/Searchpage/2/Main/290241/Words/saved/Search/true/Re:_Should_I_look_into_replaci#Post4772168



Replace it when it can't be repaired at a reasonable cost. A hole can be found with a detector and possibly repaired.



Unfortunately, in this case it can't. Somehow, I can't justify putting $500. to a grand in repairing a 17 year old system that probably has a 20 year life expectancy that uses refrigerant that is presently being phased out.
I just checked. I can buy R12 myself for $40./lb. online. Assuming that I bought a set of gauges and could actually track the leak myself and it was in a place that was repairable, perhaps MacGyvering it through might be an option to eke a few more years out of the old girl.
However, with my luck, I would drop the bills and the compressor would blow tomorrow.
Planned obsolescence is a PITA, but it is what it is.


2012 Honda Accord LX-P 95K
2008 Ford Mustang Pony Package Convertible 17K
2006 Honda Odyssey EX-L 76K
2003 Ford Ranger 3.0 Supercab 115K
Re: Unfortunately, It's new A/C time [Re: Tdbo] #4781212
06/08/18 10:33 AM
06/08/18 10:33 AM
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 3,366
Raleigh ,NC CSA
rshaw125 Offline
rshaw125  Offline

Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 3,366
Raleigh ,NC CSA
Originally Posted By: Tdbo
Originally Posted By: rshaw125
Originally Posted By: WobblyElvis
In this thread "Eddie" says a new unit only saved him $6/month. If this is correct does it makes sense to replace an AC unit or repair what you have. Something to think about.
https://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php/ubb/showflat/Number/4772168/Searchpage/2/Main/290241/Words/saved/Search/true/Re:_Should_I_look_into_replaci#Post4772168



Replace it when it can't be repaired at a reasonable cost. A hole can be found with a detector and possibly repaired.



Unfortunately, in this case it can't. Somehow, I can't justify putting $500. to a grand in repairing a 17 year old system that probably has a 20 year life expectancy that uses refrigerant that is presently being phased out.
I just checked. I can buy R12 myself for $40./lb. online. Assuming that I bought a set of gauges and could actually track the leak myself and it was in a place that was repairable, perhaps MacGyvering it through might be an option to eke a few more years out of the old girl.
However, with my luck, I would drop the bills and the compressor would blow tomorrow.
Planned obsolescence is a PITA, but it is what it is.



Your choice. I have a rental with a 35 year old AC system. It had a leak years ago. My AC guy used a hand held gizmo that beeped when it found the leak. Took all of 5 minutes. He fixed the pin hole and I've had another 9 years out of it.


2012 Porsche Carrera S
2016 Ford Edge 2.0
2002 Taurus Vulcan SOLD
2006 Explorer SOLD
Re: Unfortunately, It's new A/C time [Re: Tdbo] #4781214
06/08/18 10:35 AM
06/08/18 10:35 AM
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 319
Minnesota
bruckus Offline
bruckus  Offline

Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 319
Minnesota
Check with local electric company. Sometimes they will offer rebates on higher SEER units which in turn make them more affordable.

Re: Unfortunately, It's new A/C time [Re: Tdbo] #4781296
06/08/18 12:22 PM
06/08/18 12:22 PM
Joined: Dec 2016
Posts: 70
Soonerville
379KITTY Offline
379KITTY  Offline

Joined: Dec 2016
Posts: 70
Soonerville
We have 2 Trane XL14i units - a 5 ton and a 2 1/2 that were installed new in 2003. They are R410 refrigerant and reciprocal compressors (not scroll). Other than 3 capacitors and a condenser fan motor this year, been extremely pleased with operation and efficiency. We also did 2 stage gas furnaces with variable speed blowers, which are great in winter. Instead of the on/off cycling (heat), they may come on so low you can't hear - and run long periods, maybe nonstop if cold enough. Of course if you call for a big temp increase, they will ramp up like a normal system does. Trane gets my vote.

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