Recent Topics
How often to drive a car that sits in the winter?
by Corollaman. 02/17/19 08:49 AM
Top Off or Change it Early
by 99Saturn. 02/17/19 08:22 AM
Do your vehicles have a nickname?
by ZZman. 02/17/19 08:19 AM
Another work project thread
by mattd. 02/17/19 08:18 AM
Buzzing sound behind dash
by Spetz. 02/17/19 05:09 AM
Ain't stupid, but can't find Cummin Hist
by BrocLuno. 02/16/19 11:41 PM
Rethinking oil choices
by JLTD. 02/16/19 11:29 PM
coolster 150 cc atv 2019 new
by hyperscion. 02/16/19 10:37 PM
older gps - week counter rollover Apr 6 '19
by spackard. 02/16/19 10:32 PM
Thoughts on an old Lexus?
by JustN89. 02/16/19 09:50 PM
Understanding Fuel Trims for diagnostics.
by StevieC. 02/16/19 07:59 PM
book of matches for tune up?
by marine65. 02/16/19 07:53 PM
New Penrite 0w-30
by toyota62. 02/16/19 07:45 PM
New HID bulbs for the Cadillac
by 14Accent. 02/16/19 07:17 PM
2008 Prius - Water in oil
by cjolson140. 02/16/19 07:00 PM
Kitchen Faucet question
by reemoe2. 02/16/19 06:56 PM
Time for brakes again
by SilverFusion2010. 02/16/19 05:23 PM
Darn brake rotors
by Dave Sherman. 02/16/19 03:42 PM
looking @ a 2010 Escape Hybrid...
by earlyre. 02/16/19 03:24 PM
Newest Members
jpdeal, Snipeuout, DeltaWing, JRS3, krzyq
67252 Registered Users
Who's Online Now
103 registered members (53' Stude, Audios, berlyn, Best F100, AdditiveOCD, 9 invisible), 1,626 guests, and 53 spiders.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Forum Statistics
Forums67
Topics298,304
Posts4,989,185
Members67,252
Most Online2,548
Feb 16th, 2019
Donate to BITOG
Print Thread
Hop To
Page 1 of 2 1 2
Kinetic energy recovery system #4780392
06/07/18 04:34 PM
06/07/18 04:34 PM
Joined: Apr 2018
Posts: 117
Azerbaijan
NICAT Offline OP
NICAT  Offline OP

Joined: Apr 2018
Posts: 117
Azerbaijan
Hi.
To this day, in cars with gasoline engines, the kinetic energy under braking is simply wasted.
What i wonder is, is it really difficult or unnecessery to recover that enegry and use under acceleration ?
It would especially be useful while driving in heavy traffic.

Last edited by NICAT; 06/07/18 04:35 PM.
Re: Kinetic energy recovery system [Re: NICAT] #4780401
06/07/18 04:45 PM
06/07/18 04:45 PM
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 42,232
'Stralia
Shannow Offline
Shannow  Offline

Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 42,232
'Stralia
Certainly it would, but then there's another few thousand dollars worth of stuff on top of he car, plus the weight.

electrical would require motor generators somewhere in the drive train plus batteries of some sort.

I've seen it done hydraulically on rigs, where a bit of the braking effort is stored to push it off next start.

Re: Kinetic energy recovery system [Re: NICAT] #4780404
06/07/18 04:50 PM
06/07/18 04:50 PM
Joined: Dec 2017
Posts: 3,702
SE British Columbia, Canada
Snagglefoot Online content
Snagglefoot  Online Content

Joined: Dec 2017
Posts: 3,702
SE British Columbia, Canada
Originally Posted By: NICAT
Hi.
To this day, in cars with gasoline engines, the kinetic energy under braking is simply wasted.
What i wonder is, is it really difficult or unnecessery to recover that enegry and use under acceleration ?
It would especially be useful while driving in heavy traffic.



You are describing hybrid cars such as the Toyota Prius, one of the first ones. Braking causes the on board battery to get charged and the pressing the accelerator releases energy to the motor/generator and helps accelerate the car.


If you want the job done right......do it yourself.
Re: Kinetic energy recovery system [Re: Shannow] #4780409
06/07/18 04:54 PM
06/07/18 04:54 PM
Joined: Apr 2018
Posts: 117
Azerbaijan
NICAT Offline OP
NICAT  Offline OP

Joined: Apr 2018
Posts: 117
Azerbaijan
Originally Posted By: Shannow
Certainly it would, but then there's another few thousand dollars worth of stuff on top of he car, plus the weight.

electrical would require motor generators somewhere in the drive train plus batteries of some sort.

I've seen it done hydraulically on rigs, where a bit of the braking effort is stored to push it off next start.


Sir, You are right. If it is done at electrical level, it would be more complicated, even though it would have more and easily upgradable storage capacity.
But if the energy can be saved mechanically, wouldn't it be more simple and useful enough?

Re: Kinetic energy recovery system [Re: NICAT] #4780411
06/07/18 04:54 PM
06/07/18 04:54 PM
Joined: Jun 2016
Posts: 3,654
MN
oil_film_movies Online content
oil_film_movies  Online Content

Joined: Jun 2016
Posts: 3,654
MN
Originally Posted By: NICAT
To this day, in cars with gasoline engines, the kinetic energy under braking is simply wasted.
My Ford C-Max Hybrid does it all the time, and it has a gasoline engine. It does improve MPG by quite a bit.
Now for non-hybrids, Mazda uses a fat capacitor to recover kinetic energy (its very limited as to how much it can soak up!!):

Re: Kinetic energy recovery system [Re: NICAT] #4780414
06/07/18 04:57 PM
06/07/18 04:57 PM
Joined: Jun 2016
Posts: 3,654
MN
oil_film_movies Online content
oil_film_movies  Online Content

Joined: Jun 2016
Posts: 3,654
MN
Originally Posted By: NICAT
But if the energy can be saved mechanically, wouldn't it be more simple and useful enough?

Hydraulic Hybrids were big a few years ago. Hardly hear about them anymore. They recover braking energy in things like stop-start garbage trucks and city vehicles, and store it in an accumulator. Limited storage, but they work OK.
Flywheels can be used, but they need shafts to spin them up, and you hope they don't fly apart.

Re: Kinetic energy recovery system [Re: NICAT] #4780416
06/07/18 04:59 PM
06/07/18 04:59 PM
Joined: Mar 2016
Posts: 1,719
Toronto
PeterPolyol Offline
PeterPolyol  Offline

Joined: Mar 2016
Posts: 1,719
Toronto
Originally Posted By: NICAT

But if the energy can be saved mechanically, wouldn't it be more simple and useful enough?


A big ole flywheel bolted to the chassis might screw up the crash safety, and how about the geartrain to drive it? Impracticality for days


There's no replacement...'scosity for natural viscosity
Re: Kinetic energy recovery system [Re: oil_film_movies] #4780423
06/07/18 05:03 PM
06/07/18 05:03 PM
Joined: Apr 2018
Posts: 117
Azerbaijan
NICAT Offline OP
NICAT  Offline OP

Joined: Apr 2018
Posts: 117
Azerbaijan
Originally Posted By: oil_film_movies
Originally Posted By: NICAT
But if the energy can be saved mechanically, wouldn't it be more simple and useful enough?

Hydraulic Hybrids were big a few years ago. Hardly hear about them anymore. They recover braking energy in things like stop-start garbage trucks and city vehicles, and store it in an accumulator. Limited storage, but they work OK.
Flywheels can be used, but they need shafts to spin them up, and you hope they don't fly apart.


If flywheels are used, how long can they store the energy ? smile

Re: Kinetic energy recovery system [Re: NICAT] #4780432
06/07/18 05:11 PM
06/07/18 05:11 PM
Joined: May 2012
Posts: 1,406
Georgia
AVB Offline
AVB  Offline

Joined: May 2012
Posts: 1,406
Georgia
Maybe that could be coupled with something like FCA's eTorque starter-generator system.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VmGoh4Yhnxo

Re: Kinetic energy recovery system [Re: NICAT] #4780442
06/07/18 05:22 PM
06/07/18 05:22 PM
Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 654
NY
mx5miata Offline
mx5miata  Offline

Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 654
NY
gas engine with stored braking energy to power an electronic turbo/supercharger.


NAPA FULL SYNTHETIC 0w20 Partsplus oil filter
Wix air filter
Re: Kinetic energy recovery system [Re: NICAT] #4780506
06/07/18 06:20 PM
06/07/18 06:20 PM
Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 14,729
Silicon Valley
PandaBear Offline
PandaBear  Offline

Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 14,729
Silicon Valley
You are talking about hybrid. Depends on the kind you have some pros and cons: battery if you want to store your energy for a long time (hours to months), flywheel if you want minimal loss but not much waste, and then other exotic stuff like pneumatic if you want something in between.

In the end it is about cost and benefit. Prius and other similar hybrid has a good compromise between cost and benefit (that's why cabbies and delivery guys use them), flywheel is good for racing, etc. For some vehicles you don't have much space for these devices so you just let it burn fuel and waste them (most minivan and pickups).

The question is whether it is even better if you make it a battery EV and use the savings from the engine for a bigger battery pack.


"You keep asking questions PandaBear and you'll end up a vegetarian like my wife" - Camu Mahubah
Re: Kinetic energy recovery system [Re: NICAT] #4780583
06/07/18 07:26 PM
06/07/18 07:26 PM
Joined: Dec 2017
Posts: 3,702
SE British Columbia, Canada
Snagglefoot Online content
Snagglefoot  Online Content

Joined: Dec 2017
Posts: 3,702
SE British Columbia, Canada
The Formula 1 cars are partial hybrids now.


If you want the job done right......do it yourself.
Re: Kinetic energy recovery system [Re: Snagglefoot] #4780655
06/07/18 08:19 PM
06/07/18 08:19 PM
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 26,551
Regina, Saskatchewan, Canada
Garak Offline
Garak  Offline

Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 26,551
Regina, Saskatchewan, Canada
Their system from a few years ago was actually called the Kinetic Energy Recovery System. wink


Plain, simple Garak.

2008 Infiniti G37 - Shell ROTELLA T6 Multi-Vehicle 5w-30, Wix 57356
1984 F-150 4.9L - Quaker State GB 10w-30, Wix 51515
Re: Kinetic energy recovery system [Re: NICAT] #4780694
06/07/18 08:56 PM
06/07/18 08:56 PM
Joined: Jun 2009
Posts: 473
New England
555 Offline
555  Offline

Joined: Jun 2009
Posts: 473
New England
2009 was KERS. A heat recovery system with its own motor was later combined in addition to the kinetic recovery system. An explanation is available at formula1.com. Cannot post link for some reason.

Last edited by 555; 06/07/18 08:58 PM.

84 XJ6 M1
92 Mustang 5.0 Redline
99 Tahoe 2 door Castrol Edge
99 MX5 Miata Anniversary Edition M1
04 Subaru STi Motul
Re: Kinetic energy recovery system [Re: NICAT] #4780704
06/07/18 09:06 PM
06/07/18 09:06 PM
Joined: Mar 2016
Posts: 1,822
Western S.C.
CR94 Offline
CR94  Offline

Joined: Mar 2016
Posts: 1,822
Western S.C.
With battery energy storage, much of the original energy gets lost in the transitions from mechanical to electrical to electrical at a different voltage to chemical energy, and then back.

All modern electric cars recover braking energy, and have much more battery capacity than "regular" hybrids.


2011 Toyota Prius now at 96K
1981 Mazda GLC (323) retired at 606K
1972 Subaru DL retired at 190K
1954 Chevrolet retired at 121K
Page 1 of 2 1 2
Previous Thread
Index
Next Thread

Moderated by  ekpolk 

BOB IS THE OIL GUY® Powered by UBB.threads™