Pennzoil GF-6 & Low Viscosity Q&A

Click here to participate in the Pennzoil Q&A

Recent Topics
Which grease?
by maverickfhs. 06/25/19 12:43 PM
Potenza SO4 Pole Position on the 968
by BeerCan. 06/25/19 12:15 PM
New wheels and tires on our VW Passat
by SLO_Town. 06/25/19 11:28 AM
Absorber drying chamois
by Redright9. 06/25/19 10:36 AM
Mobil Delvac Rebate
by GMguy84. 06/25/19 10:29 AM
Sister wants an Audi q5
by 1978elcamino. 06/25/19 10:21 AM
Annual Father/Son Varmint Hunting Trip
by 2015_PSD. 06/25/19 09:53 AM
2019 Subaru Impreza anyone?
by sw99. 06/25/19 09:46 AM
Unable to Register
by ABursell. 06/25/19 09:27 AM
01 Tahoe rotors
by mjk. 06/25/19 09:04 AM
Anyone Using DualLiner Pickup Truck Bed Liner?
by LoneRanger. 06/25/19 08:29 AM
Hard tonneau?
by buck91. 06/25/19 08:20 AM
What's your DIY disaster?
by newbe46. 06/25/19 08:10 AM
Synchromesh: Valvoline Vs. Pennzoil
by IndyFan. 06/25/19 07:27 AM
World’s most valuable Ford Fusion
by LotI. 06/25/19 06:45 AM
Sprinter Gen 2 oil
by Ammofirst. 06/25/19 06:39 AM
Filter Cross over to car chart anywhere
by 97K15004WD. 06/25/19 05:47 AM
Newest Members
Blue_moon, jim_russ, johnmichael, TIMPEHL, MrBluesky14
68482 Registered Users
Who's Online Now
110 registered members (1978elcamino, alchargo, 2K2AcuraTL, AlienBug, AC1DD, 2015_PSD, 9 invisible), 2,292 guests, and 26 spiders.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Forum Statistics
Forums67
Topics290,952
Posts4,995,739
Members68,482
Most Online2,967
Mar 10th, 2019
Donate to BITOG
Hop To
Page 1 of 3 1 2 3
LSPI and Euro engines, any low-Ca high-Mg C3 oils? #4779719
06/06/18 11:02 PM
06/06/18 11:02 PM
Joined: Apr 2016
Posts: 2,045
Oregon
1JZ_E46 Offline OP
1JZ_E46  Offline OP

Joined: Apr 2016
Posts: 2,045
Oregon
Are European GDI and TGDI engines somehow immune from LSPI? Or do they have ways of addressing beyond changing the oil formulation? Just about every Euro spec’d oil I’ve seen (including, LL-01, LL-04, 229.5, 229.51, A40, C30, etc.) are high Ca (2,000-2,400 for A3/B4 and around 1,600 for C3) with essentially no Mg. Even the more recent specs don’t seem concerned with calcium doses. It makes me wonder how much changing the calcium content really can impact LSPI. Thoughts? Ever seen a low-Ca C3 oil?

Last edited by 1JZ_E46; 06/06/18 11:10 PM.

2019 Tesla Model 3 SR+
2016 Countryman S: Castrol 0W-40
Re: LSPI and Euro engines, any low-Ca high-Mg C3 oils? [Re: 1JZ_E46] #4779772
06/07/18 03:24 AM
06/07/18 03:24 AM
Joined: Sep 2015
Posts: 2,626
Malaysia
zeng Offline
zeng  Offline

Joined: Sep 2015
Posts: 2,626
Malaysia
C3's I come across are high Ca with minimal Mg.
LSPI as high Ca related in oil is American (marketing) way of sorting out a non-issue in (Euro) LSPI, IMHO.

Re: LSPI and Euro engines, any low-Ca high-Mg C3 oils? [Re: 1JZ_E46] #4779776
06/07/18 04:00 AM
06/07/18 04:00 AM
Joined: Apr 2012
Posts: 10,857
Kendall, FL
wemay Offline
wemay  Offline

Joined: Apr 2012
Posts: 10,857
Kendall, FL
Well, Hyundai still publish 5W-40 as a recommended option for the 2.0T and i have that jug on deck for it's next oci. But there have been too many industry papers coming to the same conclusion to think that Calcium and Sodium don't contribute to the issue i.e., from SAE Papers, Chevron Ornite, Lubrizol etc. I guess time will tell. Maybe the exclusion of Na is a simpler, cheaper solution to the issue than introducing the add package found in Euro specc'd oils, just a guess.


2018 KIA Sportage 2.4 AWD:
CQ Syn 5W-20, CQ 85334
Next: O'Reilly 5W-30, MGL51334

2013 Hyundai Santa Fe Sport 2.0T:
QSUD 5W-30, OEM
Next: SAME


Re: LSPI and Euro engines, any low-Ca high-Mg C3 oils? [Re: zeng] #4779937
06/07/18 08:50 AM
06/07/18 08:50 AM
Joined: Apr 2018
Posts: 619
Canada
nap Offline
nap  Offline

Joined: Apr 2018
Posts: 619
Canada
Originally Posted By: zeng
C3's I come across are high Ca with minimal Mg.
LSPI as high Ca related in oil is American (marketing) way of sorting out a non-issue in (Euro) LSPI, IMHO.


I believe the Europeans don't have CAFE and thus don't have much incentives to push the engines regime into LSPI.

Re: LSPI and Euro engines, any low-Ca high-Mg C3 oils? [Re: 1JZ_E46] #4779949
06/07/18 08:55 AM
06/07/18 08:55 AM
Joined: Dec 2017
Posts: 626
Suomi
Bjornviken Online content
Bjornviken  Online Content

Joined: Dec 2017
Posts: 626
Suomi
Havent heard of any LSPI related issues here in EU. Think its only concerns the ilsac oils line up.

Re: LSPI and Euro engines, any low-Ca high-Mg C3 oils? [Re: 1JZ_E46] #4779966
06/07/18 09:19 AM
06/07/18 09:19 AM
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 4,480
The Garden State
Whimsey Offline
Whimsey  Offline

Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 4,480
The Garden State
The European spec oils usually have much higher levels of Zinc & Phosphorus which helps to offset the LSPI caused by higher calcium, so I read. US spec oils have lower levels of Zinc and Phosphorus to help with cat poisoning and those doesn't offset calcium's effect with LSPI.

Whimsey

Re: LSPI and Euro engines, any low-Ca high-Mg C3 oils? [Re: nap] #4779968
06/07/18 09:21 AM
06/07/18 09:21 AM
Joined: Sep 2015
Posts: 2,626
Malaysia
zeng Offline
zeng  Offline

Joined: Sep 2015
Posts: 2,626
Malaysia
Originally Posted By: nap
Originally Posted By: zeng
C3's I come across are high Ca with minimal Mg.
LSPI as high Ca related in oil is American (marketing) way of sorting out a non-issue in (Euro) LSPI, IMHO.


I believe the Europeans don't have CAFE and thus don't have much incentives to push the engines regime into LSPI.

Points taken, thumbsup

Re: LSPI and Euro engines, any low-Ca high-Mg C3 oils? [Re: Whimsey] #4780024
06/07/18 10:53 AM
06/07/18 10:53 AM
Joined: Apr 2012
Posts: 10,857
Kendall, FL
wemay Offline
wemay  Offline

Joined: Apr 2012
Posts: 10,857
Kendall, FL
Originally Posted By: Whimsey
The European spec oils usually have much higher levels of Zinc & Phosphorus which helps to offset the LSPI caused by higher calcium, so I read. US spec oils have lower levels of Zinc and Phosphorus to help with cat poisoning and those doesn't offset calcium's effect with LSPI.

Whimsey


This^


2018 KIA Sportage 2.4 AWD:
CQ Syn 5W-20, CQ 85334
Next: O'Reilly 5W-30, MGL51334

2013 Hyundai Santa Fe Sport 2.0T:
QSUD 5W-30, OEM
Next: SAME


Re: LSPI and Euro engines, any low-Ca high-Mg C3 oils? [Re: Whimsey] #4780035
06/07/18 11:17 AM
06/07/18 11:17 AM
Joined: Apr 2016
Posts: 2,045
Oregon
1JZ_E46 Offline OP
1JZ_E46  Offline OP

Joined: Apr 2016
Posts: 2,045
Oregon
Originally Posted By: Whimsey
The European spec oils usually have much higher levels of Zinc & Phosphorus which helps to offset the LSPI caused by higher calcium, so I read. US spec oils have lower levels of Zinc and Phosphorus to help with cat poisoning and those doesn't offset calcium's effect with LSPI.

Whimsey


ACEA C3 oils (specs like LL-04, 229.51, C30) have zinc and phosphorous levels about equal to today's SN/GF-5 oils, and they all have no magnesium and most have no moly.

I think part of the reason LSPI doesn't seem to be a concern for euro manufacturers (at least from an oil formulation standpoint) is that they specify premium fuel for their engines, resulting in less soot (a contributor to LSPI).

Last edited by 1JZ_E46; 06/07/18 11:22 AM.

2019 Tesla Model 3 SR+
2016 Countryman S: Castrol 0W-40
Re: LSPI and Euro engines, any low-Ca high-Mg C3 oils? [Re: nap] #4780036
06/07/18 11:18 AM
06/07/18 11:18 AM
Joined: Apr 2016
Posts: 2,045
Oregon
1JZ_E46 Offline OP
1JZ_E46  Offline OP

Joined: Apr 2016
Posts: 2,045
Oregon
Originally Posted By: nap
Originally Posted By: zeng
C3's I come across are high Ca with minimal Mg.
LSPI as high Ca related in oil is American (marketing) way of sorting out a non-issue in (Euro) LSPI, IMHO.


I believe the Europeans don't have CAFE and thus don't have much incentives to push the engines regime into LSPI.


If they are selling their cars here, they have CAFE.


2019 Tesla Model 3 SR+
2016 Countryman S: Castrol 0W-40
Re: LSPI and Euro engines, any low-Ca high-Mg C3 oils? [Re: 1JZ_E46] #4780041
06/07/18 11:23 AM
06/07/18 11:23 AM
Joined: Sep 2015
Posts: 2,626
Malaysia
zeng Offline
zeng  Offline

Joined: Sep 2015
Posts: 2,626
Malaysia
Originally Posted By: 1JZ_E46
Originally Posted By: nap
Originally Posted By: zeng
C3's I come across are high Ca with minimal Mg.
LSPI as high Ca related in oil is American (marketing) way of sorting out a non-issue in (Euro) LSPI, IMHO.


I believe the Europeans don't have CAFE and thus don't have much incentives to push the engines regime into LSPI.


If they are selling their cars here, they have CAFE.


.... but Euro OEM's doesn't recommend RC GF5 oils in CAFEland , do they?

Re: LSPI and Euro engines, any low-Ca high-Mg C3 oils? [Re: zeng] #4780059
06/07/18 11:54 AM
06/07/18 11:54 AM
Joined: Apr 2016
Posts: 2,045
Oregon
1JZ_E46 Offline OP
1JZ_E46  Offline OP

Joined: Apr 2016
Posts: 2,045
Oregon
Originally Posted By: zeng
.... but Euro OEM's doesn't recommend RC GF5 oils in CAFEland , do they?


Well, no, but they are still squeezing out every last drop of fuel economy from the engines via engineering and tuning (for CAFE requirements)... which is the cause of LSPI in the first place. Oil is only one very small lever to pull in the quest for MPGs.


2019 Tesla Model 3 SR+
2016 Countryman S: Castrol 0W-40
Re: LSPI and Euro engines, any low-Ca high-Mg C3 oils? [Re: 1JZ_E46] #4780147
06/07/18 01:26 PM
06/07/18 01:26 PM
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 498
GA
drtyler Offline
drtyler  Offline

Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 498
GA
I can't speak for other cars & engines, but the VW EA888 engine in Europe has an extra injector in the intake to squirt a bit of gas down to the valves and the fuel mapping in the ECU is programmed differently (presumably for Euro emission requirements rather than USA & Canada). I realize this affects intake valve buildup rather than LSPI specifically.



Last edited by drtyler; 06/07/18 01:27 PM.
Re: LSPI and Euro engines, any low-Ca high-Mg C3 oils? [Re: nap] #4780793
06/07/18 11:41 PM
06/07/18 11:41 PM
Joined: Mar 2012
Posts: 7,155
Colorado Springs
edyvw Offline
edyvw  Offline

Joined: Mar 2012
Posts: 7,155
Colorado Springs
Originally Posted By: nap
Originally Posted By: zeng
C3's I come across are high Ca with minimal Mg.
LSPI as high Ca related in oil is American (marketing) way of sorting out a non-issue in (Euro) LSPI, IMHO.


I believe the Europeans don't have CAFE and thus don't have much incentives to push the engines regime into LSPI.

Nope, they have limits of grams of CO2 per 100km and $6 gallon of gas.


15' Toyota Sienna AWD (Mobil1 5W30 EP+OEM filter).
11' VW Tiguan 2.0T (Castrol 0W40+MANN filter)
Re: LSPI and Euro engines, any low-Ca high-Mg C3 oils? [Re: drtyler] #4780794
06/07/18 11:43 PM
06/07/18 11:43 PM
Joined: Mar 2012
Posts: 7,155
Colorado Springs
edyvw Offline
edyvw  Offline

Joined: Mar 2012
Posts: 7,155
Colorado Springs
Originally Posted By: drtyler
I can't speak for other cars & engines, but the VW EA888 engine in Europe has an extra injector in the intake to squirt a bit of gas down to the valves and the fuel mapping in the ECU is programmed differently (presumably for Euro emission requirements rather than USA & Canada). I realize this affects intake valve buildup rather than LSPI specifically.



Injector issue is due to cost. Cars in US are cheaper and more affordable.
Also yes, EU engines have more lean burn which produces more NOx which has higher limits in EU.


15' Toyota Sienna AWD (Mobil1 5W30 EP+OEM filter).
11' VW Tiguan 2.0T (Castrol 0W40+MANN filter)
Page 1 of 3 1 2 3
Previous Thread
Index
Next Thread

BOB IS THE OIL GUY® Powered by UBB.threads™