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Seafoam and Amsoil PI test #4779742
06/06/18 11:51 PM
06/06/18 11:51 PM
Joined: Jun 2018
Posts: 80
Canada
Gixxer46 Offline OP
Gixxer46  Offline OP
Joined: Jun 2018
Posts: 80
Canada
So I decided to see how effective some of these fuel treatments are.

Iíve done a bunch of research and found itís a lot of people saying things work with no backup. I bought a boroscopic camera and decided to do some before and after views. Iíve seen a few videos online from project farm and Chris fix and decided to do some comparisons. I will note the caliber of their videos and pics is a lot better. I hate editing videos.

I have several notes:

1. 4.7L 2013 with ~40,000 kms. Or 25,000 miles. It has an oil catch can installed around 30,000 kms. I have a 100L tank or 26 Gal.
2. I looked in cylinder 1 originally and added cylinder 3.
3. I didnít look in all cylinders because itís a huge PITA.
4. I took video which I will hope to put on YouTube but it is very hard to film and make it look nice. I will post a link once thatís done.
5. With limited time, tools, I noticed I didnít always get the best views of the pistons.
6. Ideally, one would take out both sets of plugs, injectors, and even tear the motor apart. I didnít do this because of cost and time.
7. Iíve used these products in the past and am no way paid by them. In fact, I would stop using them if I found they didnít work.
8. I use Costco top tier fuel in the vehicle only.

Assumptions:
1. There are a variety of factors that could alter effectiveness including:
-Humidity - -~ 20-30%
-Temperature- 15-25 degreees Celsius.
-Engine wearing characteristics - unknown
-Carbon build up and hardness- unknown
-Injector spray pattern- example- does injector 1 spray straight at the intake valve whereas injector 2 sprays at the intake manifold resulting in different spray patterns, etc.
-Dilution of the cleaner.
-These are some of the factors and honestly, there are so many more.

Please take this with a grain of salt.
These cleaners can only do so much. I believe one must consider this.

I used Seafoam with the intake sprayer and amsoil PI.

1. Seafoam
This stuff is petroleum based.
This is the one with the little sprayer into the intake.
Note: The company calls for adding the liquid stuff into your fuel as well. I didnít do that to see the effectiveness of the upstream cleaning. I followed their directions using most of the can and let it heat soak for about an 1hr and 15 minutes.
Then I drove the snot out of it. I found when I looked into the intake through the throttle body, it made the intake carbon wet and goooy. It didnít clean it to any degree. This is not posted as it was a video.

The following is a before of cylinder 1.





The next picture is the after doing Seafoam. Again, I apologize for the angles. It was really hard to move the camera and couldnít get the crank to manually move it.




You can see a bit of cleaning and appears that Seafoam does work. To an extent that youíre happy with? I canít say.

2. Amsoil PI
This stuff is composed of PEA. See footnote 1.

The following is a picture of cylinder 3 before amsoil.




When I added the PI I added it to an empty tank. I poured in about 45 liters or 11.89 US gallons.

My reasoning to over concentrate the additive was if it doesnít work when itís concentrated itís not going to work at full dilution.

I did a variety of driving from coasting to highway to city driving but every chance I got I did a lot of full throttle acceleration. I drove the vehicle hard. When the low fuel light came on I parked the truck and let it sit for 8 hours.


The next picture is what I noticed and had seen on one of Chrisfix videos. The cylinder 3 looked wet and sticky with carbon.




A couple days later I decided to take another before Seafoam and see if it could rectify the mess. This is what I had seen.





It appeared as though it needed some time for that soft carbon to get cleaned up and maybe after those couple days Of combustion it burnt it off. I did not run Seafoam as I pondered my results.



The next picture is cylinder 1 after Amsoil PI.






There appears to be more polishing of the piston.

The build up at the bottom appears to be remaining. However, this could be attributed to the injector spray angle, etc.

Perhaps a limitation of the cleaning agents is the design of the motor itself?

I do apologize for the quality of the photos.

Any tips on how to be able to manually crank the engine would be greatly appreciated as there is little room.

Please use this as a guide and make your own opinion.

The plan is to try a couple more of these cleaners. If there is interest Iíll post the results.

I hope you guys found it useful.


I forgot to add about the wet carbon picture. I thought that perhaps the additive cleaned upstream (intake, valves, injectors) resulting in dirtying up the piston. Maybe itís a bit of that and softening of the piston carbon.


Footnotes
1. https://www.sae.org/publications/technical-papers/content/2000-01-2020/


2013 Ram 1500 with a 4.7.

I use 0W-20 year round. I alternate between RP and Amsoil Signature series.
Re: Seafoam and Amsoil PI test [Re: Gixxer46] #4779755
06/07/18 12:19 AM
06/07/18 12:19 AM
Joined: Feb 2014
Posts: 2,311
Kansan,1911 45ACP fan
Marco620 Offline
Marco620  Offline
Joined: Feb 2014
Posts: 2,311
Kansan,1911 45ACP fan
Amsoil > Seafoam. I imagine over time the Amsoil would get it up to par. Seafoam only brings great marketing and thats about it. Thank you for your efforts,observation,and write up. A welcome


15' Civic R18Z1 189k.0w20 Redline/Archoil9200,Eibach,Tanabe&Tein Suspension/Borla Exhaust/XG7317
Right to work state proud.
Re: Seafoam and Amsoil PI test [Re: Gixxer46] #4779779
06/07/18 04:30 AM
06/07/18 04:30 AM
Joined: Jul 2013
Posts: 384
D/FW Metroplex
The_Nuke Offline
The_Nuke  Offline
Joined: Jul 2013
Posts: 384
D/FW Metroplex
PEA based cleaners added to the gas tank will do the most cleaning of deposits in the engine when allowed to Ďsoakí the target deposits for a bit. How long is Ďa bití? It depends, but for this scenario it should be longer than the nanosecond it has after being sprayed from an injector and before being combusted.

As such, driving WOT with the gasoline-mixed PEA additives will not normally result in more cleaning of the deposits. What will is multiple stops (where engine is turned off) after a short trip that gets the engine up to operating temp. The hot carbon of the deposit will soften up and be more likely to get cleaned from the extended soak time while engine is off, and the more this soak time can be multiplied throughout the typical drive day, the better.


2012 Charger Pursuit aka "The Bacon Hauler"
- 5.7L + NAG1 (A5) + 2.62 (215mm)
Re: Seafoam and Amsoil PI test [Re: Gixxer46] #4779896
06/07/18 08:05 AM
06/07/18 08:05 AM
Joined: Sep 2015
Posts: 5,955
Kalifornia Kollective
BrocLuno Offline
BrocLuno  Offline
Joined: Sep 2015
Posts: 5,955
Kalifornia Kollective
Why are we cleaning an engine with only 25,000 miles?


Formerly in marine engineering. In an earlier life I owned my own petroleum tank truck, and hauled for the majors and independent's.
Re: Seafoam and Amsoil PI test [Re: BrocLuno] #4779919
06/07/18 08:34 AM
06/07/18 08:34 AM
Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 3,435
Massachusetts
deven Offline
deven  Offline
Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 3,435
Massachusetts
Originally Posted By: BrocLuno
Why are we cleaning an engine with only 25,000 miles?

Preventative maintenance maybe?


Proud user of ROYAL PURPLE products!

2016 Acura RLX Sports Hybrid(Royal Purple HPS 5w30 + M1-110 oil filter)

KEEP IT SIMPLE STUPID. IT'S ONLY OIL
Re: Seafoam and Amsoil PI test [Re: Gixxer46] #4780094
06/07/18 12:37 PM
06/07/18 12:37 PM
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 5,039
Fredericksburg, VA
JAG Offline
JAG  Offline
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 5,039
Fredericksburg, VA
Thank you for documenting this. The amount of deposit change during the tests is a function of the rate of deposit removal minus the rate of addition of new deposits. I wonder if overdosing can cause more incomplete combustion and carbon, hindering the cleaning performance. I donít think Amsoil PI will burn as easily as gasoline does and suspect it burns more like how 2-stroke oil does...increasing 2-stroke oil treat rate too much can cause excess carbon.

Re: Seafoam and Amsoil PI test [Re: JAG] #4780325
06/07/18 04:38 PM
06/07/18 04:38 PM
Joined: Jul 2013
Posts: 384
D/FW Metroplex
The_Nuke Offline
The_Nuke  Offline
Joined: Jul 2013
Posts: 384
D/FW Metroplex
Originally Posted By: JAG
Thank you for documenting this. The amount of deposit change during the tests is a function of the rate of deposit removal minus the rate of addition of new deposits. I wonder if overdosing can cause more incomplete combustion and carbon, hindering the cleaning performance. I donít think Amsoil PI will burn as easily as gasoline does and suspect it burns more like how 2-stroke oil does...increasing 2-stroke oil treat rate too much can cause excess carbon.


The rate of new deposits while burning gas mixed with PEA is supposed to be nil. Thatís basically what differentiates top tier from non, it wonít be adding new deposits while cleaning existing deposits because of the PEA additive.


2012 Charger Pursuit aka "The Bacon Hauler"
- 5.7L + NAG1 (A5) + 2.62 (215mm)
Re: Seafoam and Amsoil PI test [Re: The_Nuke] #4780426
06/07/18 06:07 PM
06/07/18 06:07 PM
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 25,645
Regina, Saskatchewan, Canada
Garak Offline
Garak  Offline
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 25,645
Regina, Saskatchewan, Canada
Yes, provided the mixture is within expected limits. I don't know where those limits are, but it would be pretty clear you can't run a fuel with 35% PEA and expect any good results with respect to cleaning or running. wink


Plain, simple Garak.

2008 Infiniti G37 - Shell ROTELLA T6 Multi-Vehicle 5w-30, NAPA Gold 7356
1984 F-150 4.9L - Quaker State GB 10w-30, Wix 51515
Re: Seafoam and Amsoil PI test [Re: Marco620] #4780682
06/07/18 09:43 PM
06/07/18 09:43 PM
Joined: Jun 2018
Posts: 80
Canada
Gixxer46 Offline OP
Gixxer46  Offline OP
Joined: Jun 2018
Posts: 80
Canada
I think it might be better in oil. It did remove some and every year when I Seafoam my idle drops from 750 rpm to 500 rpm so it must do something.

You are welcome! I hope you found it useful. Iím going to try some other ones later on.


2013 Ram 1500 with a 4.7.

I use 0W-20 year round. I alternate between RP and Amsoil Signature series.
Re: Seafoam and Amsoil PI test [Re: The_Nuke] #4780684
06/07/18 09:45 PM
06/07/18 09:45 PM
Joined: Jun 2018
Posts: 80
Canada
Gixxer46 Offline OP
Gixxer46  Offline OP
Joined: Jun 2018
Posts: 80
Canada
Iíll take that into account, thatís why I did a variety of driving, highway, city. I canít accelerate hard in the city. This was done over a few days as I seldomly drive.


2013 Ram 1500 with a 4.7.

I use 0W-20 year round. I alternate between RP and Amsoil Signature series.
Re: Seafoam and Amsoil PI test [Re: deven] #4780685
06/07/18 09:47 PM
06/07/18 09:47 PM
Joined: Jun 2018
Posts: 80
Canada
Gixxer46 Offline OP
Gixxer46  Offline OP
Joined: Jun 2018
Posts: 80
Canada
Originally Posted By: deven
Originally Posted By: BrocLuno
Why are we cleaning an engine with only 25,000 miles?

Preventative maintenance maybe?


I thought Iíd have a look and if itís clean great, if not, preventative maintenance. Plus, I used them in other vehicles and just wanted to know if it was worth the money.


2013 Ram 1500 with a 4.7.

I use 0W-20 year round. I alternate between RP and Amsoil Signature series.
Re: Seafoam and Amsoil PI test [Re: Gixxer46] #4781018
06/08/18 08:26 AM
06/08/18 08:26 AM
Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 3,435
Massachusetts
deven Offline
deven  Offline
Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 3,435
Massachusetts
Originally Posted By: Gixxer46
Originally Posted By: deven
Originally Posted By: BrocLuno
Why are we cleaning an engine with only 25,000 miles?

Preventative maintenance maybe?


I thought Iíd have a look and if itís clean great, if not, preventative maintenance. Plus, I used them in other vehicles and just wanted to know if it was worth the money.

I've followed ChrisFix's videos as well and to my untrained eye I thought the best of the bunch was actually Marvel Mystery Oil(MMO).


Proud user of ROYAL PURPLE products!

2016 Acura RLX Sports Hybrid(Royal Purple HPS 5w30 + M1-110 oil filter)

KEEP IT SIMPLE STUPID. IT'S ONLY OIL
Re: Seafoam and Amsoil PI test [Re: deven] #4781246
06/08/18 12:08 PM
06/08/18 12:08 PM
Joined: Jun 2018
Posts: 80
Canada
Gixxer46 Offline OP
Gixxer46  Offline OP
Joined: Jun 2018
Posts: 80
Canada
ChrisFix never tested MMO, I know project farm did some tests with it. Well worth checking out his channel.


2013 Ram 1500 with a 4.7.

I use 0W-20 year round. I alternate between RP and Amsoil Signature series.
Re: Seafoam and Amsoil PI test [Re: Gixxer46] #4781332
06/08/18 01:58 PM
06/08/18 01:58 PM
Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 3,435
Massachusetts
deven Offline
deven  Offline
Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 3,435
Massachusetts
Originally Posted By: Gixxer46
ChrisFix never tested MMO, I know project farm did some tests with it. Well worth checking out his channel.

It was Project farm then. I follow both of them.


Proud user of ROYAL PURPLE products!

2016 Acura RLX Sports Hybrid(Royal Purple HPS 5w30 + M1-110 oil filter)

KEEP IT SIMPLE STUPID. IT'S ONLY OIL
Re: Seafoam and Amsoil PI test [Re: The_Nuke] #4781676
06/08/18 08:17 PM
06/08/18 08:17 PM
Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 7,762
New York
pbm Offline
pbm  Offline
Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 7,762
New York
Originally Posted By: The_Nuke
PEA based cleaners added to the gas tank will do the most cleaning of deposits in the engine when allowed to Ďsoakí the target deposits for a bit. How long is Ďa bití? It depends, but for this scenario it should be longer than the nanosecond it has after being sprayed from an injector and before being combusted.

As such, driving WOT with the gasoline-mixed PEA additives will not normally result in more cleaning of the deposits. What will is multiple stops (where engine is turned off) after a short trip that gets the engine up to operating temp. The hot carbon of the deposit will soften up and be more likely to get cleaned from the extended soak time while engine is off, and the more this soak time can be multiplied throughout the typical drive day, the better.


I had asked that very question to Gumout when they first became a sponsor...(is a long highway run as effective as short trip, stop/start driving when using a PEA additive?)

I had assumed that what you are saying was correct and I'm glad to see you feel the same.


'Journalism is Dead'
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