New Cub Cadet lawn tractor - which one?

[cpayne5]

My mother was in the market for a new mower this Spring. She's rough on equipment and we live in a hilly area. She wanted to spend between two and three thousand.

I ended up recommending she buy a Husqvarna TS348D. It was right at the top of her budget (a little over with tax), but it had a few of the beefier items that I felt she needed. K66 transmission with diff lock and frabricated deck being the most important.

It's not EFI, but honestly, we've never had any issues with the larger carbureted engines. I put 500 hours on my last Briggs twin (27hp) without any fueling issues.

Myself, I have a Cub Cadet Pro Z zero turn steering wheel model with an EFI'd Kohler Confidant engine. I've only got about 45 hours on it so far (bought it March 2017). It's a fine engine, but I worry about the long term reliability of the EFI components. Kohler sells an EFI diagnostic kit, but it's kind of expensive ($200-300, if I remember correctly). My mower has a 4 year, 500 hour warranty, so I'm fine for a while.

Check out tractorbynet.com for some good mower discussions. Each make has its own forum.

Good luck!

 

[MParr]

cpayne5 just gave you a good choice. The Husqvarna TS348D would be a far better choice than the Cub Cadet.

 

[krismoriah72]

If you plan on keeping it forever then buy what you want. If you are the type to sell in a few years or even 10 yrs John Deere or Kubota will fetch a decent price when you are tired of it or want to upgrade.

I cant find any prices of Kubota riding mowers so no idea if they are within your budget.

 

[toyoman54]

With 45 years and counting involved with Outdoor Power Equipment both repair, parts and sales I can offer this advice Run Away!!!! from cub cadet you are looking at a MTD which makes many low end products under a lot of names. consider a ZTR pro consumer in Gravely or Ariens from a independent dealer assuring you service after the sale.

 

[jeepman3071]

Cub Cadet with EFI is probably worse than any carburetor machine out there. Steer clear of Cub Cadet, cheap box store MTD junk. The last thing you want is a more complicated machine made by a cheap manufacturer.

My advice is find a good condition used actual garden tractor like a John Deere 300 series, X series, etc. Most will have proven Kawasaki engines, heavy duty hydros and frames.

Also just an FYI, many of those warranties only cover actual defects in manufacturing, like if the frame cracks or the deck falls off. I had a customer of mine with a Cub Cadet that blew a head gasket on it's Kohler Courage with perfect maintenance, and the warranty didn't cover it.

 

[JTK]

92s- Like said, I hear you on wanting to reduce the chance of fuel system related issues, but I'm not sure a cheaper mower with EFI is the way to do it. I know $2000 is a LOT of cash, but for a new riding mower, that's a cheap mower.

I've had lots of different mowing equipment over the years and have been tinkering with them for over 30yrs.

ZTRs are nice for getting a lot of grass cut in a short period of time. If you've got rough terrain and hills, you need a high dollar, large ZTR IMO. I've been down this road before. I had a 2010 model year Cub Z-Force ZTR that was built for the task, but was rough for me to operate under these conditions. It beat the heck out of me. I also had a 2005 (still in the family) Cub Cadet 2544 rider that was better on a rough lawn and built well with shaft drive to the trans, HD serviceable trans, etc. Like said, all Cubs aren't built the same. To get a shaft drive Cub rider with a decent cutting deck today, they start at $4000, not including the cutting deck.

Pic'd below is what I've had over the past 14yrs. You will also see a project mower I fixed up. A 1979 Case 220 rider w/ a 38" deck. Built like a tank, but horrible for mowing service compared to more modern machines.

 

[jonnied1]

Originally Posted By: 92saturnsl2
Can zero-turns handle some seriously rough terrain-- like steep hills in some places, and large sinkholes in others (random places). It's beat all my previous mowers to death. I don't think a cheap zero turn (some are just as garbage as the $1,000 lawn tractors) will do as good a job as an expensive lawn tractor for my application. The way I see it, $2,500 (+ tax), if I get five years out of it, I'm spending $500 a year and I'm saving money versus used ones that I have to fix all summer. The Cub Cadet in that series has a 3 year [nearly] unlimited and 5 year chassis warranty. Hard to beat that, these aren't the cheapie models I'm looking at; but I can understand the skepticism with the Cub Cadet brand-- not what they used to be, but then again no brand is, they've all been sold to conglomerates and all get most their parts from China, and if you're lucky, assembled in the US.

And for the EFI-- I won't compromise. Carburetors have no business being on a $2,500 machine in 2018. I told myself a long time ago, the first one to introduce EFI will get my business. It should have happened years ago, all it takes is a small ECU, a couple sensors, pressurized fuel system and a dirt cheap injector. I've moved from Colorado to the midwest and back a couple times, and I had nothing but trouble with my equipment at different altitudes, and I generally don't buy cheap stuff. YMMV, but I do want EFI if I'm sinking a bunch of money into a new mower that I plan on keeping a long time.


Zero Turn mowers do not work on your type of land. I know, I have the same situation here. I mow about 3 1/2 acres of rough steep hilly property. I tried a Zero Turn once and could not use it on the hills. It was a fight just to get from point A to point B on a steep slanted hill!
I ended up getting a Husqvarna Rider 322T AWD mower. They are hard to find in the US but I found it to be the best for my situation. They are expensive though.
https://www.husqvarna.com/us/products/riders/r-322t-awd/967032101/

 

[cpayne5]

Originally Posted By: jonnied1
Originally Posted By: 92saturnsl2
Can zero-turns handle some seriously rough terrain-- like steep hills in some places, and large sinkholes in others (random places). It's beat all my previous mowers to death. I don't think a cheap zero turn (some are just as garbage as the $1,000 lawn tractors) will do as good a job as an expensive lawn tractor for my application. The way I see it, $2,500 (+ tax), if I get five years out of it, I'm spending $500 a year and I'm saving money versus used ones that I have to fix all summer. The Cub Cadet in that series has a 3 year [nearly] unlimited and 5 year chassis warranty. Hard to beat that, these aren't the cheapie models I'm looking at; but I can understand the skepticism with the Cub Cadet brand-- not what they used to be, but then again no brand is, they've all been sold to conglomerates and all get most their parts from China, and if you're lucky, assembled in the US.

And for the EFI-- I won't compromise. Carburetors have no business being on a $2,500 machine in 2018. I told myself a long time ago, the first one to introduce EFI will get my business. It should have happened years ago, all it takes is a small ECU, a couple sensors, pressurized fuel system and a dirt cheap injector. I've moved from Colorado to the midwest and back a couple times, and I had nothing but trouble with my equipment at different altitudes, and I generally don't buy cheap stuff. YMMV, but I do want EFI if I'm sinking a bunch of money into a new mower that I plan on keeping a long time.


Zero Turn mowers do not work on your type of land. I know, I have the same situation here. I mow about 3 1/2 acres of rough steep hilly property. I tried a Zero Turn once and could not use it on the hills. It was a fight just to get from point A to point B on a steep slanted hill!
I ended up getting a Husqvarna Rider 322T AWD mower. They are hard to find in the US but I found it to be the best for my situation. They are expensive though.
https://www.husqvarna.com/us/products/riders/r-322t-awd/967032101/


I bought a Cub Cadet zero turn mower that has a steering wheel to control the front wheels (not casters like a regular zero turn). Works great on my hills here in Virginia.

 

[Rickey]

Greetings.

Just my

worth of rambling on; discounted to free:

IMHO "big box store" Cubs or Deere's or whatever are designed to a price/profitability point.
The emphasis on these type machines is NOT quality/durability first.

Back when I was a new homeowner, I owned several new "big box store" machines, which all invariably caused maintenance headaches for me mostly after the warranty was up.
Thinly made stamped mower decks that cracked at attachment points, idler pulleys that had failed bearings, death rattles from cheaply made engines, cheap ball joints that wore out all too frequently, etc.
I could go on with the list of long term quality issues that I experienced with big box mowing machines.
At one time it seemed that I spent more time working on my Cub LT1045 than I spent actually mowing with it!!
Long story shortened I never got more than about 300 hours out of any of the "big box store" toys before moving on to a new machine.

Like you my yard has some rough terrain and many turns which taxes the durability of the machines construction.

Looking at the Cub website:

http://www.cubcadet.com/equipment/Compar...oductId=2301493

It appears that the XT2 LX46" EFI has a fabricated VS: a stamped mower deck.
If so this would probably explain the heavier weight specification.
A fabricated deck tends to be more durable under adverse operating conditions.

Cut and paste of the warranty:

"WARRANTY

3-year unlimited hours (includes powertrain) & 5-year chassis & front axle unlimited hours/limited lifetime fabricated deck shell "


Looking at specs and your price limit that is the best pick of the Cubs IMHO.

To get the commercial quality in a Cub, one must spend considerably more $$$.
Mower deck is additional $$$ !!!

http://www.cubcadet.com/equipment/Compar...oductId=2039201

At this level you get a shaft driven heavy duty trans-axle and lots of other heavier duty parts.


Some have suggested buying an older commercial machine:
That is what I eventually ended up doing myself.

Several years ago I bought a used and abused 2002 Cub 2166 for cheap, then fixed it up to my satisfaction.
Now my toolbox stays closed most of the time (everything breaks sooner or later).
And I have the satisfaction of knowing that I nursed a fine old machine back to healthy status.
It now has 700+ hours and still going strong!

Regarding the Zero Turn machines:
There are two hydrostatic transmission units to wear out instead of one.
This doubles your chances of a hydro failure IMHO.
If I were considering a Zero Turn it would have to be a commercial unit with serviceable hydro's including oil filtration on the hydro units.

I hope the above will be helpful to you.


Good luck in your quest for a good machine.

 

[HemiHawk]

Last year when I needed a new mower (Previous Cub GT2186 had seen better days) I looked around quite a bit. I really liked the idea of the EFI Cub, but to me it just seemed like an expensive headache for when it has issues. The fuel savings was really what I was interested in.

I ended up going with the Cub GT50. It had the higher HP Kohler 7000 motor at 25hp, 3 blade 50" deck, bluetooth monitor (yea yea people will say its dumb but its kind of handy for maintenance).

The other thing I liked about the GT50 was the larger wheels and the upgraded diff (K58 vs K46) and 1" axles. I wouldn't call it a true "garden tractor" but it has most of the traits needed for 2ish acres.

The other interesting thing about the EFI motors is they don't rate the power. I'm sure its more than enough, I just found that odd.

 

[SatinSilver]

Check Consumer Reports they just did a review of lawn tractors over the last month or so. Cub Cadet was number one I believe but forget which model.

 

[dwendt44]

Quote:
Jackson Wilson
Sorry you're wrong yet again. Fraud U. was a Emperor T rump idea.


That is NOT correct. CR generally prefers the John Deere X350
as the 'best'. IIRC, their long term reliability rating puts
Cub Cadet as one of the worst.

IF the OP is determined to go with the Cub Cadet, the one that is
heavier would be the one to get.

My 2¢

 

[MParr]

Lesson #1: Don’t buy things based on Consumer Reports information. I learned that lesson many tears ago.
Traditional type garden tractors are getting hard to find. The Zero Turn units have flooded the market.

 

[92saturnsl2]

So what about the New Holland LS45? I know this isn't the tractor forum, but anyone have any knowledge of these machines and/or the K61 Tuff Torque hydro transmission it's equipped with? I contacted the seller who's asking $1100, he bought it second hand but it runs good, lots of parts replaced in the last year or two, blah, blah. I go look at it tomorrow.

After reading all the posts, I believe it's a bad idea to buy new unless I have twice the cash I intend to spend. That's not possible at the moment. This machine is a 48" which will cut my mowing time down a huge amount (I have a 38" now) and should handle hills and such. Any pointers on what exactly to look for when I test drive it? I know the obvious things (motor knocking, transmission whine, etc.) but I'm not terribly familiar with the larger machines. Thanks again.

I can't do the larger garden tractors like old school John Deere, Kubota, et al for space and price reasons. I don't have time to wait for a genuine steal, but I will make sure what I get is at a decent price even if I have to haggle a bit.

 

[MParr]

If you are near Meade Tractor, give them a call. They may have a good used mower at a reasonable price.

 

[jeepman3071]

Originally Posted By: 92saturnsl2
So what about the New Holland LS45? I know this isn't the tractor forum, but anyone have any knowledge of these machines and/or the K61 Tuff Torque hydro transmission it's equipped with? I contacted the seller who's asking $1100, he bought it second hand but it runs good, lots of parts replaced in the last year or two, blah, blah. I go look at it tomorrow.

After reading all the posts, I believe it's a bad idea to buy new unless I have twice the cash I intend to spend. That's not possible at the moment. This machine is a 48" which will cut my mowing time down a huge amount (I have a 38" now) and should handle hills and such. Any pointers on what exactly to look for when I test drive it? I know the obvious things (motor knocking, transmission whine, etc.) but I'm not terribly familiar with the larger machines. Thanks again.

I can't do the larger garden tractors like old school John Deere, Kubota, et al for space and price reasons. I don't have time to wait for a genuine steal, but I will make sure what I get is at a decent price even if I have to haggle a bit.


New Holland LS45 is a good machine. They have a twin cylinder Kohler Command which is a very good engine and the Tuff Torq K61 is a decent transmission which should last. If the machine is in good shape with no deck rust or smoke when running I'd consider it for sure.

 

[92saturnsl2]

Hey fellas, I looked at the LS45 today and while I was impressed, I wasn't prepared to pay full asking price. It's a nice machine-- Kohler V-twin engine runs smooth as butter (good oil, appears well maintained), no whine or issues from the hydro transmission. Rode smooth as can be and controls worked well.

Two potential issues I observed. First is the left side of the deck sounds like the bearings might be going bad, or at the least fairly dry. It just didn't sound like a good running mower deck. Even my cheapie MTD mower when working properly just sounds like a small helicopter rotor (air noise) with hardly any mechanical noises. This one had a coarse sound, especially on that left side, I wasn't impressed. I spun pulleys and blades by hand and didn't notice any measurable play or wobble, so it could be the normal sound, or it could mean a part needs replacing. I don't want to pay full asking price to find out.

At the front of the mower deck, there was a bracket in which a wheel must have been attached. I don't know what those wheels are called but they're the little plastic ones that float with the deck. The mount was half there (bent in such a way that it can't be repaired without welding or fabrication) and the wheel was gone. The deck is probably FIVE times as thick as what I'm used to though-- a good sign that it will hold up, but I wonder how important that little wheel is...

Oh and a third thing, the battery/charging light was on. Not a deal-break for me as that's something I can fix-- I'm good with electrical stuff, and if all else fails I can unplug the battery each time and keep it on a maintainer. Still not "perfect condition" and wasn't mentioned in the CL ad.

The mower is not equipped with an hour meter, but I suspect it's been used plenty. The paint and controls look good, so it's been taken care of. What do ya'll think I should do on price? I told him I'd take the weekend to think about it, he would only come down to $1,000. TIA for any suggestions.

 

[jeepman3071]

Originally Posted By: 92saturnsl2
Hey fellas, I looked at the LS45 today and while I was impressed, I wasn't prepared to pay full asking price. It's a nice machine-- Kohler V-twin engine runs smooth as butter (good oil, appears well maintained), no whine or issues from the hydro transmission. Rode smooth as can be and controls worked well.

Two potential issues I observed. First is the left side of the deck sounds like the bearings might be going bad, or at the least fairly dry. It just didn't sound like a good running mower deck. Even my cheapie MTD mower when working properly just sounds like a small helicopter rotor (air noise) with hardly any mechanical noises. This one had a coarse sound, especially on that left side, I wasn't impressed. I spun pulleys and blades by hand and didn't notice any measurable play or wobble, so it could be the normal sound, or it could mean a part needs replacing. I don't want to pay full asking price to find out.

At the front of the mower deck, there was a bracket in which a wheel must have been attached. I don't know what those wheels are called but they're the little plastic ones that float with the deck. The mount was half there (bent in such a way that it can't be repaired without welding or fabrication) and the wheel was gone. The deck is probably FIVE times as thick as what I'm used to though-- a good sign that it will hold up, but I wonder how important that little wheel is...

Oh and a third thing, the battery/charging light was on. Not a deal-break for me as that's something I can fix-- I'm good with electrical stuff, and if all else fails I can unplug the battery each time and keep it on a maintainer. Still not "perfect condition" and wasn't mentioned in the CL ad.

The mower is not equipped with an hour meter, but I suspect it's been used plenty. The paint and controls look good, so it's been taken care of. What do ya'll think I should do on price? I told him I'd take the weekend to think about it, he would only come down to $1,000. TIA for any suggestions.



I think $1000 is too much, given the condition. You can buy a decent condition "real" John Deere for $1000-1200 around here.

Craigslist is kind of a pain, but it sounds like you know what to look for which is good. Some people will purposely omit details like that from the ad, most simply have no clue and assume that if it runs and drives it must be perfectly fine.

 

[racinjason]

Kohler command twins are bad about the magnets falling off the flywheel taking the stator with them generaly. Not saying this one has but I’ve seen it numerous times

I had an ls55 one time, it was built well, the deck was loud, but it was slow for such a large machine. I’ve had Kubota’s and Deeres in the duty range and they were all faster. I just traded off a GT245, what a fine machine

 

[nascarnation]

Originally Posted By: joegreen
I know you want new but have you thought about a used actual small garden tractor. Something like an older john deere. I guarantee you wont have frame issues.




Biggest mistake I ever made in OPE was trading my 20 yr old WH 520H for a JD 345.
I agree the JD frame is awesomely robust but everything else breaks...and their replacement parts are proprietary designs and priced like Mercedes Benz.
JD's reputation is far better than their hardware IMHO.