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Subaru Genuine 0w20 & Noack information #4778489
06/05/18 07:31 PM
06/05/18 07:31 PM
Joined: Jun 2017
Posts: 32
NJ
pilot1226 Offline OP
pilot1226  Offline OP
Joined: Jun 2017
Posts: 32
NJ
Hi all,

I am considering one of the new third row Subaru SUV’s soon, the Subaru Ascent. It is powered by the FA24 direct injection turbo engine. The engine is new but built on the existing FA20 that is in Forester XT and WRX’s.

My concern is the volatility and evaporability of the genuine Subaru 0w20, which is what I will be using. The oil is made by Idemitsu corporation but I don’t know the specifics. Subaru has been using 0w20 in the FB series engines since around 2013, and this is the first turbo that calls for 0w20 (the FA20 requires 5w30).

The reason of my concern is because the volatility and Noack seems to be linked to carbon buildup on the DI motors in general, so I am trying to see if I can find one with a low Noack, under 7%.

Thanks!


Pilot, Subaru Ambassador
http://subaruoutback.org Forums
Re: Subaru Genuine 0w20 & Noack information [Re: pilot1226] #4778502
06/05/18 07:49 PM
06/05/18 07:49 PM
Joined: Jun 2016
Posts: 3,262
MN
oil_film_movies Online content
oil_film_movies  Online Content
Joined: Jun 2016
Posts: 3,262
MN
Under 7% is tough to get in a 0w20. https://www.ravenol.de/uploads/tx_ravenol/pdf-print/RAVENOL_DFE_SAE_0W20_1.pdf should be available in the U.S. soon. Not sure when. It's 7.6%. All PAO+POE base oil formula, expensive stuff, but with lots of spec qualifications to use for Subaru warranty purposes.
Easier to get and cheaper is Mobil1 Annual Protection 0w20, which should have a NOACK at least somewhat close to the 5w30's 8.5%. I don't know what would be better other than the Ravenol DFE.

Re: Subaru Genuine 0w20 & Noack information [Re: oil_film_movies] #4778511
06/05/18 07:54 PM
06/05/18 07:54 PM
Joined: May 2018
Posts: 32
downhureSW
nike360baller Offline
nike360baller  Offline
Joined: May 2018
Posts: 32
downhureSW
Originally Posted By: oil_film_movies
Under 7% is tough to get in a 0w20. https://www.ravenol.de/uploads/tx_ravenol/pdf-print/RAVENOL_DFE_SAE_0W20_1.pdf should be available in the U.S. soon. Not sure when. It's 7.6%. All PAO+POE base oil formula, expensive stuff, but with lots of spec qualificati to use for Subaru warranty purposes.
Easier to get and cheaper is Mobil1 Annual Protection 0w20, which should have a NOACK at least somewhat close to the 5w30's 8.5%. I don't know what would be better other than the Ravenol DFE.

I liked this post as it kinda opened my eyes to the Mobil 1 AP or Annual Protection but namely the 0w-20.

Last edited by nike360baller; 06/05/18 07:54 PM.

The 0w-20 weight and viscosity oils DO NOT BURN A DROP! How shear stable is this oil and better than the 30 weights.
Re: Subaru Genuine 0w20 & Noack information [Re: pilot1226] #4778538
06/05/18 08:23 PM
06/05/18 08:23 PM
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 583
TN
TTK Offline
TTK  Offline
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 583
TN
Mobil does not publish NOACK values. Top of the line Amsoil 0w-20 is 8.5; Redline 0w-20 is 9


2010 Volvo V70-3.2
Current Fill:Castrol Magnatec 5w-30
2018 Subaru Forester, 0w-20 Subaru oil
2001 Chevrolet Prism:Castrol Magnatec 5w-30

Re: Subaru Genuine 0w20 & Noack information [Re: pilot1226] #4778548
06/05/18 08:34 PM
06/05/18 08:34 PM
Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 654
NY
mx5miata Offline
mx5miata  Offline
Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 654
NY
Maybe they recommend the 0w20 for fuel economy. I feel its a sacrafice of protection 5w30 should be the norm on turbocharged engines.


NAPA FULL SYNTHETIC 0w20 Partsplus oil filter
Wix air filter
Re: Subaru Genuine 0w20 & Noack information [Re: pilot1226] #4778572
06/05/18 09:00 PM
06/05/18 09:00 PM
Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 1,083
pa
benjy Offline
benjy  Offline
Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 1,083
pa
as usual its all about the mpg's to meet, as subaru's are not known for better mpg's. i would look into a 5-20 or better yet 5-30 that meets the specs for warranty purposes. generally the owners manual will list several accepted viscosities depending on the temps in your operating area + how you use the vehicle. girlfriends 2013 2.5 DI malibu was using a qt on a thou of the spec 5-20 oil + switching to a 10-30 reduced consumption to very little. the 10-30 was not dexos approved but a 5-30 was + not being a real synthetic the first # is the base oil. going to redline's 5-30 gives a better HTHS as well as a noack of 6 + its ester base oils are said to handle fuel dilution better which is another DI issue!!

Re: Subaru Genuine 0w20 & Noack information [Re: pilot1226] #4778574
06/05/18 09:02 PM
06/05/18 09:02 PM
Joined: Mar 2017
Posts: 5,767
...
PimTac Offline
PimTac  Offline
Joined: Mar 2017
Posts: 5,767
...
The Ascent should be a winner for Subaru in the fast growing three row crossover segment.

I would not get too hung up on Noack. There is a lot more to oil than volatility. Any of the SN+ / d1G2 oils that meet Subaru’s specs will run just fine. I would consider a 5k or 7.5k oci for that engine.

I will admit that with a turbo I would prefer a 5w30 but you will have to abide by the Subaru warranty.


2017 Mazda CX-5 GT.

Valvoline Modern Engine 0w20
Mobil 1 EP 108A
Re: Subaru Genuine 0w20 & Noack information [Re: PimTac] #4778595
06/05/18 09:30 PM
06/05/18 09:30 PM
Joined: Jun 2017
Posts: 32
NJ
pilot1226 Offline OP
pilot1226  Offline OP
Joined: Jun 2017
Posts: 32
NJ
Originally Posted By: PimTac
The Ascent should be a winner for Subaru in the fast growing three row crossover segment.

I would not get too hung up on Noack. There is a lot more to oil than volatility. Any of the SN+ / d1G2 oils that meet Subaru’s specs will run just fine. I would consider a 5k or 7.5k oci for that engine.

I will admit that with a turbo I would prefer a 5w30 but you will have to abide by the Subaru warranty.


Yes, the concern is that I drop close to 50k on this car I don’t want any reason for a warranty issue. That being said Subaru is an exceptional company when it comes to catastrophic repairs out of warranty. They reimburse people when an issue arises in the future. I personally had my torque converter replaced under extended warranty st no cost to me. They don’t have to do this. They’re a great company.


The Noack is more anti-carbon buildup. I really don’t want to have to walnut shell blast this thing every 50k (the new timing belt service?)

I’ve used PUP in my 11 Outback but that’s a different beast as it is NA and a can of Techron will fix whatever is ailing it.

The Ascent manual suggests you can use 5w30 to top off but not to replace the oil.

Last edited by pilot1226; 06/05/18 09:31 PM.

Pilot, Subaru Ambassador
http://subaruoutback.org Forums
Re: Subaru Genuine 0w20 & Noack information [Re: pilot1226] #4778610
06/05/18 09:47 PM
06/05/18 09:47 PM
Joined: Mar 2017
Posts: 5,767
...
PimTac Offline
PimTac  Offline
Joined: Mar 2017
Posts: 5,767
...
Originally Posted By: pilot1226
Originally Posted By: PimTac
The Ascent should be a winner for Subaru in the fast growing three row crossover segment.

I would not get too hung up on Noack. There is a lot more to oil than volatility. Any of the SN+ / d1G2 oils that meet Subaru’s specs will run just fine. I would consider a 5k or 7.5k oci for that engine.

I will admit that with a turbo I would prefer a 5w30 but you will have to abide by the Subaru warranty.


Yes, the concern is that I drop close to 50k on this car I don’t want any reason for a warranty issue. That being said Subaru is an exceptional company when it comes to catastrophic repairs out of warranty. They reimburse people when an issue arises in the future. I personally had my torque converter replaced under extended warranty st no cost to me. They don’t have to do this. They’re a great company.


The Noack is more anti-carbon buildup. I really don’t want to have to walnut shell blast this thing every 50k (the new timing belt service?)

I’ve used PUP in my 11 Outback but that’s a different beast as it is NA and a can of Techron will fix whatever is ailing it.

The Ascent manual suggests you can use 5w30 to top off but not to replace the oil.




This is a new engine for Subaru so we will have to wait for any issues like fuel dilution and the such. I agree with your comment. Subaru makes a fine vehicle and you should have no worries running 0w20 if that is what they say.

A lot is going to depend on your driving habits. Obviously, highway miles are easy versus city stop and go. My suggested oci above relates to that. Mostly stop and go or short trips then I would go with 5k oci. If it’s solid highway miles then you could go 7.5. I’d might go 5k at first and see if fuel dilution will be a concern. Of course, if Subaru has their own oci schedule then abide by that.

Let us know if you do buy the Ascent. As I said it should be a big hit for Subaru.


2017 Mazda CX-5 GT.

Valvoline Modern Engine 0w20
Mobil 1 EP 108A
Re: Subaru Genuine 0w20 & Noack information [Re: pilot1226] #4778613
06/05/18 09:47 PM
06/05/18 09:47 PM
Joined: Mar 2012
Posts: 552
Toronto, Canada
HKPolice Offline
HKPolice  Offline
Joined: Mar 2012
Posts: 552
Toronto, Canada
NOACK & even oil type does not affect DI carbon buildup. EGR is the main culprit, with fuel quality playing big role in how much soot gets recirculated by the EGR.

https://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ub...difference_%7C_

Re: Subaru Genuine 0w20 & Noack information [Re: pilot1226] #4778806
06/06/18 07:07 AM
06/06/18 07:07 AM
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 2,301
NJ
bluesubie Offline
bluesubie  Offline
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 2,301
NJ
Subaru is very slow in having their oil updated (or tied up in a contract?). They were late with the switch to SN and they’ll probably be late at reducing calcium. IMO, carbon build-up in 2.0DIT’s is a bit overblown and shops are doing it as preventative maintenance to make some extra money.

I wouldn’t sweat it and wouldn’t stress out in trying to find the “perfect oil”. You’re an Ambassador with a 5/60k Powertrain Warranty.

Last edited by bluesubie; 06/06/18 07:09 AM.

'04 Subaru Forester 2.5XT
Castrol Edge High Mileage
Re: Subaru Genuine 0w20 & Noack information [Re: pilot1226] #4778810
06/06/18 07:18 AM
06/06/18 07:18 AM
Joined: Jun 2015
Posts: 4,284
New England
Virtus_Probi Offline
Virtus_Probi  Offline
Joined: Jun 2015
Posts: 4,284
New England
Here is some info on an Idemitsu 0W20, but I don't know if it's the same as the one that is sold with Subaru branding...they are kind enough to share a NOACK loss result with us, 11.4%

https://www.idemitsulubricants.com/idemitsu/engine-oil/0w-20

I was surprised at first to hear that Subaru is recommending 0W20 for the new 2.4l DIT, but I guess it makes sense from a fleet mileage point of view given that the Ascent should be a big runner for them compared to the niche WRXs and (now discontinued) Forester XT. I wonder how long the V6 Outback is going to be around, don't pay that much attention to that model so maybe it's already on its way out?
Subaru recommended 7.5kmile changes (non-severe duty) for my 2014, but dropped that to 6kmiles the next model year without any apparent changes to the engine...I've been going with 5k.
I am holding out some hope that the 2.4l will show up in a new Forester XT at some point, I figure at the very least it will replace the old 2.5l turbo in the WRX STI.


2014 Forester XT, 90000 miles
Last Change;
M1 5W30 d1G2
Tokyo Roki 15208AA170 filter
Re: Subaru Genuine 0w20 & Noack information [Re: pilot1226] #4778871
06/06/18 08:41 AM
06/06/18 08:41 AM
Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 1,807
.
Danh Offline
Danh  Offline
Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 1,807
.
Others have pointed out that the oil vapors scavenged by the PCV system are largely composed of very fine oil droplets created by all the commotion that goes on in an internal combustion engine. This has little to do with volatility, so a low-Noack oil may not buy you much in this regard.

OEMs have come a long way since the early German DI adopters that had serious intake valve deposits and it’s hard to find reports of such issues with the current generation of DI/TGDI engines. I’d pay attention to potential fuel dilution with your Subaru, but wouldn’t spend much time worrying about intake valve deposits.

Re: Subaru Genuine 0w20 & Noack information [Re: pilot1226] #4778939
06/06/18 10:14 AM
06/06/18 10:14 AM
Joined: Jun 2016
Posts: 3,262
MN
oil_film_movies Online content
oil_film_movies  Online Content
Joined: Jun 2016
Posts: 3,262
MN
Originally Posted By: TTK
Mobil does not publish NOACK values. Top of the line Amsoil 0w-20 is 8.5; Redline 0w-20 is 9

http://www.pqiadata.org/Mobil1_Annual_Protection_5W30.html is where I found the M1 AP 5w30 NOACK, not Mobil.
Also, Amsoil Signature Series 0w20 is not API SN approved. The same for Redline. Voids the Subaru warranty, technically. I assmume they might enforce their Owner's Manual in the event of an engine failure. ... Good oils by all accounts, its just that these companies sometimes can't be bothered getting actual spec approvals done. That's why I was saying use Ravenol DFE 0w20 when it comes to America (soon?) if you want an expensive, high performance oil in your engine. M1 Annual Protection is Exxon-Mobil's best effort, and the numbers show it, so it may be worth the little bit extra; and its EZ to get now.

Re: Subaru Genuine 0w20 & Noack information [Re: pilot1226] #4778959
06/06/18 10:37 AM
06/06/18 10:37 AM
Joined: May 2010
Posts: 1,094
Ocala, Florida
racin4ds Offline
racin4ds  Offline
Joined: May 2010
Posts: 1,094
Ocala, Florida
Wouldn't catch me putting anything 0W20 in a high HP/liter turbocharged engine no matter what the manual calls for! Unless its a lease and you aren't intending to keep it...


Just say NO to thin oils and M1!
05 F350 Powerstroke
05 Hyundai Tucson
08 Legacy GT
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