Safety First?

[supton]

Originally Posted By: Wolf359
So if there's no safety, then what was the mistake? Bringing a gun to a bar, having it in the back pants without a holster, doing a back flip, picking up the gun by the trigger, having a round in the chamber, etc.


I'd carry with a round in the chamber but otherwise the rest is clearly where he made a "mistake".

I used to think positive retention holsters were gimmicky but I am starting to come around. That could have worked here.

 

[4WD]

Originally Posted By: AVB
Originally Posted By: mjoekingz28
Guns, I think should have no safety. Too much to worry about when you need it.


If you carry, don't chamber a round until ready to fire.


So wheel guns(revolvers) I guess a heavy pull would be safe or require pulling on the hammer to get the first one going.

I see old westerns that they pulled the hammer for each round fired.
Cowboy guns were single action only revolvers. You have to manually cock the hammer to fire them.


https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=KZ_7br_3y54

 

[RooflessVW]

Originally Posted By: mjoekingz28
If you carry, don't chamber a round until ready to fire.

Sorry, I'm going to have to disagree with you heavily here. What if you don't have both hands? Why would you want an obstacle between your draw and firing (which should be one fluid motion) when milliseconds count?

Instead, I say, if carrying:

1. Do not consume substances which impair. (Better yet, do not carry where such substances are consumed)
2. Do not put your finger in the trigger well unless you intend to kill.

Most common sense goes out the window when you're drunk enough to do backflips.

 

[Astro14]

Originally Posted By: mjoekingz28


If you carry, don't chamber a round until ready to fire.


Genuinely horrible advice.

Carrying a weapon that is not ready to be used is negligent in, and of, itself. You guarantee that the weapon will take time to bring into action. You place yourself at a huge disadvantage.

It's analogous to not buckling your seatbelt until you sense a crash.

 

[OilFilters]

Originally Posted By: mjoekingz28
If you carry, don't chamber a round until ready to fire.

You might as well just leave it at home. That's kind of like having a "home defense" gun locked up in a safe. Real life is not like the movies. If you have to chamber a round chances are you lost your shot.

I don't go anywhere (except maybe a courthouse) without a chambered Glock. Packing it up to fly with right now...

 

[hatt]

Originally Posted By: spasm3
I looked at the video.

The gun did not fire on hitting the ground. THE GUN FIRED WHEN HE HASTILY PICKED IT UP!!!

I have to wonder if he had consumed. If had calmly picked up his weapon, there would have been no accidental discharge.

If was still foolish to do a backflip while carrying a firearm.
In a bar doing backflips, we don't need to wonder if he had consumed.

 

[simple_gifts]

Quote:

If you carry, don't chamber a round until ready to fire.



Quote:

Carrying a weapon that is not ready to be used is negligent in, and of, itself.


How about people carry in the way they feel is most appropriate?

 

[02SE]

Originally Posted By: Wolf359
Well hope this doesn't turn into politics, but did you hear about the FBI agent that discharged his gun when it fell out when he did a back flip in a bar?

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/post...one-police-say/

I would think that anyone that carries would have the safety on? Or could it have been shut off when it fell? Looks like he just grabbed it and it fired when he did that.

Just answer the question please.


This incident is a good example of multiple counts of negligence.

 

[Astro14]

Originally Posted By: simple_gifts
Quote:

If you carry, don't chamber a round until ready to fire.


Quote:

Carrying a weapon that is not ready to be used is negligent in, and of, itself.


How about people carry in the way they feel is most appropriate?


Sure...do what you feel is most appropriate...

That worked out well for Plaxico Burress, didn't it?

 

[Wolf359]

Originally Posted By: Astro14
Originally Posted By: simple_gifts
Quote:

If you carry, don't chamber a round until ready to fire.


Quote:

Carrying a weapon that is not ready to be used is negligent in, and of, itself.


How about people carry in the way they feel is most appropriate?


Sure...do what you feel is most appropriate...

That worked out well for Plaxico Burress, didn't it?


Which brings up another question, which is worse, shooting yourself in the foot or shooting someone else accidentally in the foot? Physical pain vs legal pain.

 

[ZeeOSix]

Originally Posted By: Wolf359
Which brings up another question, which is worse, shooting yourself in the foot or shooting someone else accidentally in the foot? Physical pain vs legal pain.


I'd say the legal pain will hurt more in this case.

 

[cashmoney]

Originally Posted By: AVB
I think he did have a holster, just not one rated for back flips.


LOL. One of the funniest comments I have ever read on this forum.


The FBI employee in question made a extremely serious mistake and displayed very bad judgement. Their days as an FBI agent will very likely be over as soon as FBI HR can process the termination paperwork.

 

[OilFilters]

Another thing worth pointing out, law enforcement are generally required to use a holster with a particular type of retaining strap, so the weapon cannot easily be grabbed, or fall out. It is part of their training to learn to unhook this strap and draw as fast as possible.

I would sure hope they train on how to regain control of their weapon safely (like not grabbing the trigger) during a struggle, or drop, also...

Obviously, this guy was not using a department issued holster.

 

[das_peikko]

Originally Posted By: spasm3
If was still foolish to do a backflip while carrying a firearm.


I'm wondering why the holster was not able to keep it secure.

 

[ZeeOSix]

Centrifugal force from the back flip, and the gun not in a capturing style holster.

 

[Shannow]

Originally Posted By: ZeeOSix
Centrifugal force from the back flip


Lack of centipetal force...there is no centrifugal "force"

 

[supton]

Originally Posted By: Shannow
Originally Posted By: ZeeOSix
Centrifugal force from the back flip


Lack of centipetal force...there is no centrifugal "force"

What do centipedes have to do with it?

[cue Sheriff Bufford T. Justice's quote about the Germans here]

 

[Astro14]

To be clear: this gun fired when the trigger was pressed.

Nothing "accidental" about that. Negligent discharge, plain and simple.

But, like most mishaps, there is a chain of events, and if you remove one link in the chain, the mishap is averted.

So, the chain: drinking while carrying, deciding to do backflips, a holster that didn't retain the weapon, grabbing the weapon too quickly*

Take any one factor out of that chain, and the weapon would not have discharged.

*impaired by alcohol, or impaired by the startle response, he grabbed it with his finger IN the trigger guard and his reflexive squeeze fired the weapon.

 

[ZeeOSix]

Originally Posted By: Shannow
Originally Posted By: ZeeOSix
Centrifugal force from the back flip


Lack of centipetal force...there is no centrifugal "force"

Objects don't move without an acting force. Maybe it was part linear.

https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/centrifugal

https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/centrifugal force

 

[Shannow]

Originally Posted By: ZeeOSix
Objects don't move without an acting force. Maybe it was part linear.

https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/centrifugal

https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/centrifugal force


No, there is NO centrifugal force.

the "force" is centripetal, the actual force is to the centre, and the "centrifugal force" is the felt acceleration away from the linear...note in both your cited links it's described as "apparent".

Break the tether and it flies straight.

The thing that holds you to the spinning drum at the fair is not centrifugal force, it's the inwards force of you being accelerated away from a straight line by the rotation and curvature of the drum.