Different specs for different markets

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Had a really interesting conversation with an engineer at... a big lube company. Part of the conversation was about when the same engine specs different oils in different markets. Most people assume that means dishonesty or shenanigans by the manufacturer, usually related to regulation. The engineer's answer bore no relationship to that thinking. He mentioned two factors, saying that one or the other (or some combination) account for most cases.

One point is that "the same engine" often has subtle differences from one market to the next. Occasionally, those differences can affect which oil spec is the best.

But the first and foremost thing to suspect, he said, is that differences in oil specs are related to the different fuel standards in different markets. The example he gave is one we're familiar with: a lot of BMWs that call for LL-01 in the US can use either LL-01 or LL-04 in Europe -- but those cars shouldn't use LL-04 here in the US with US fuels. He said that this kind of difference is actually quite common. He kept coming back to this point and underscoring its importance. I got the impression that it's a really big deal.

FWIW. Maybe some of our experts here can comment further.
 
With the sulfur limit lowered in the USA to tier 3 limits low SAPS is no longer an issue. VW 502 has now been replaced entirely with 504 in many dealerships.
LL-01 is obsolete as high SAPS oil is no longer needed, LL-04 supersedes even in the US now.
 
"One point is that "the same engine" often has subtle differences from one market to the next. Occasionally, those differences can affect which oil spec is the best."

Well, they may have different emissions equipment in different markets, but an engine assembly line does not know what country it will end up in. So, what would be an example of a "subtle difference"? My Subaru Fb25 specs 0w-20, or 5w-30, or 5w-40 in UK. Only 0w-20 in USA.
 
My first thought when I see differences isn't automatically CAFE but how the engines might differ and the quality of the gas. If the gas has a relatively high sulphur content ( rarer these days ) or there is enough of a difference in the engine components that it necessitates a higher viscosity, it'll still relate to CAFE on here even if it doesn't.

DI vehicles aren't imported into some countries because of the quality of the gas. That one example should automatically tell you that there's a rationale other than CAFE that's potentially involved with oil specs. It's not always apples to apples.
 
Originally Posted By: Vuflanovsky
My first thought when I see differences isn't automatically CAFE but how the engines might differ and the quality of the gas. If the gas has a relatively high sulphur content ( rarer these days ) or there is enough of a difference in the engine components that it necessitates a higher viscosity, it'll still relate to CAFE on here even if it doesn't.

DI vehicles aren't imported into some countries because of the quality of the gas. That one example should automatically tell you that there's a rationale other than CAFE that's potentially involved with oil specs. It's not always apples to apples.


We don't even know if there are any engine differences, other than possible emissions.
 
Originally Posted By: Trav
With the sulfur limit lowered in the USA to tier 3 limits low SAPS is no longer an issue. VW 502 has now been replaced entirely with 504 in many dealerships.
LL-01 is obsolete as high SAPS oil is no longer needed, LL-04 supersedes even in the US now.


I agree with this logic. I plan to run LL-04 5w-30 oils in my N55 in the future for lowest NOACK.
 
Driving styles, length of commute, oil chemistry differences, differing speed limits and sustained high speeds, thats all I got.

0/5w-40 when in Europe
5w-20/30 Stateside

I like 10w-30 in trucks and 5w-30 in cars though. But really it is the owner's manual's decision isn't it?







Where is Pajero and all his 50wt in Kuwait? Aussies and the 60w. I put strait 60w into a newer 1200 Evo and an older 80"Evo. Had a nice glug sound when shaking the bottle.
 
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I'm waiting for the Volvo to blow apart with the 15W-60, it's just a matter of time.

We get vehicles from all over the world in NZ, and we put what we like in them. The only ones that were a real issue were the early Mitsubishi GDI engines. They weren't made for our bad fuel, and were always run on cheaper low octane fuels...because that's what you put in a Galant, all 4G64 engines are 4G64 engines regardless of this GDI stuff.
 
All,I know is in the dust , sand and rough roads of west Texas , where I a, working, and the thermometer being 108 and me running miles of dirt and caliche washboard roads in 4wd, then miles of 75-80 mph interstate, I am replacing the factory fill in my Tacoma with something a bit more “substantial” than 0w20.
 
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Originally Posted By: Bryanccfshr
All,I know is in the dust , sand and rough roads of west Texas , where I a, working, and the thermometer being 108 and me running miles of dirt and caliche washboard roads in 4wd, then miles of 75-80 mph interstate, I am replacing the factory fill in my Tacoma with something a bit more “substantial” than 0w20.


It's your vehicle and your money. Let us know how it works out for you.
 
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Originally Posted By: Bryanccfshr
All,I know is in the dust , sand and rough roads of west Texas , where I a, working, and the thermometer being 108 and me running miles of dirt and caliche washboard roads in 4wd, then miles of 75-80 mph interstate, I am replacing the factory fill in my Tacoma with something a bit more “substantial” than 0w20.



My T4R runs awesome on 0/40, thinking a 5/40 upgrade in the warm weather...the HQ drivetrain deserves appropriate fluids.
 
Originally Posted By: Shannow
Different use in different markets ?

Who woulda guessed ?


I did. I guessed that Honda specified 0W-20 weight oil in anticipation that my driving pattern in the U.S. would conform to that reflected in the graph you linked. My problem was I was driving a Honda Civic Si from Norfolk, VA (where I was stationed) to Arlington, VA (Washington, DC area), approximately 100 miles each way, at 70 mph on weekends. The Honda was geared short; it turned 4k rpm at 70 mph. So, for the 10 years I owned it -- great car! -- I ran 5W-30 weight M1 in the car. Could it have survived on 0W-20 weight? Almost certainly, but I knew the Brits and you Aussies were running 5W-30 weight oil in your 2-liter Si motors -- I actually sent e-mail to Honda of GB and Australia and asked -- so I wasn't totally guessing what was the (dare I say it?) "better" choice?


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Originally Posted By: TTK
Well, they may have different emissions equipment in different markets, but an engine assembly line does not know what country it will end up in.


I just can’t see this being the case. My guess is every engine assembly line knows roughly where each batch of engine is going. At least I don’t see the answer given by the engineer as being too far fetched.
 
Originally Posted By: Bryanccfshr
All,I know is in the dust , sand and rough roads of west Texas , where I a, working, and the thermometer being 108 and me running miles of dirt and caliche washboard roads in 4wd, then miles of 75-80 mph interstate, I am replacing the factory fill in my Tacoma with something a bit more “substantial” than 0w20.


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Under those conditions I'd be doing the same thing.
 
I often read motoring articles about new imported cars being released in Australia, they sometimes go into detail about how the car has been adapted to Australian conditions. Apart from the obvious things like right hand drive, it's just about always suspension changes, sometimes emission changes, but never heard of any real changes to the engine metal or bearings or machined clearances.

Sure fuel quality especially sulphur levels and exhaust emission technology all have a big effect on oil SAPS level, TBN requirement and oil change interval. But this is well known, take Europe, it's fuel quality has been improving for many years and with it cars use to spec high-SAPS A3/B4 oils but now they spec mid-SAPS C3 oils.

A mid-SAPS C3 oil is very similar to a Dexos2 oil (not D1-G2) and is what GM Australia say to use in the 1.4 L iTI Turbo Cruze, and a SN-C3-Dexos2 oil is fairly close to a good universal works-for-everything oil for modern gas/petrol cars with half decent fuel.
 
The OP's original answer is almost word-for-word what I would say if asked that question (it wasn't me you spoke to was it?!).

Yes, there are differences per market. Engine mapping differences and cooling/heating system differences are two relevant ones that come to mind. There's also the fuel thing, plus the 'typical' drive cycle thing. Individuals may explore the edges of these 'normal' envelopes but they are playing a numbers game.
 
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