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Oil type, no big difference | GDI carbon #4774543 06/01/18 03:00 PM
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wemay Offline OP
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2.4L / 2.0T / 1.6T

From what I've seen after visiting a few (mostly Santa fe Sport [2013-present] and Sonata [2011-present] forums over the past few weeks, oil type does not matter. Noack %, Synthetic vs Conventional, OCI, catch cans, fuel octane, driving style, ambient temps, nice looking UOA... nothing makes a definitive difference. Some folks using full synthetic get deposits early and some using Conventional haven't had any issues yet, and vice versa. Most of these are around 50-80K miles (this is typically when symptoms begin to show, like hard starts, knocking, pinging, vibration under acceleration and stumbling at low RPM). But nailing down who gets it based on oil used seems fruitless since dino, blend and syns get it, and dino, blends and syns....don't.

Now to be clear, most on those boards have not had any carbon issue regardless of the paranoia they exhibit. I am referencing those who have posted that they have, which is a decent amount of folks.


2018 KIA Sportage LX 2.4 AWD:
EDGE EP 5W30, PH9688

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Re: Oil type, no big difference | GDI carbon [Re: wemay] #4774547 06/01/18 03:05 PM
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Everyone talks about carbon deposits with GDI, but how do they know how much this happens? Where can you see this? Sounds like a lot of speculation from people who haven't torn their engine apart to check whether it even happens or not.


2015 Hyundai Sonata 2.4L 102k STP Synthetic HM 10w30 & OEM
2000 Toyota Camry 2.2L 234k Mobil Super HM 10w40 & Fram Ultra
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Re: Oil type, no big difference | GDI carbon [Re: wemay] #4774548 06/01/18 03:05 PM
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I wouldn't be surprised if that were the case. I would think the biggest driver of carbon build-up is how much oil mist/vapor is actually passing through the PCV system from blow-by.


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Re: Oil type, no big difference | GDI carbon [Re: Nick1994] #4774550 06/01/18 03:07 PM
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Originally Posted By: Nick1994
Everyone talks about carbon deposits with GDI, but how do they know how much this happens? Where can you see this? Sounds like a lot of speculation from people who haven't torn their engine apart to check whether it even happens or not.


It happens a lot. Every single DI BMW engine I have seen has serious carbon build-up in the intake ports and on the valves.


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Re: Oil type, no big difference | GDI carbon [Re: 1JZ_E46] #4774555 06/01/18 03:10 PM
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Originally Posted By: 1JZ_E46
Originally Posted By: Nick1994
Everyone talks about carbon deposits with GDI, but how do they know how much this happens? Where can you see this? Sounds like a lot of speculation from people who haven't torn their engine apart to check whether it even happens or not.


It happens a lot. Every single DI BMW engine I have seen has serious carbon build-up in the intake ports and on the valves.
BMW had carbon issues when they had port fuel injection in the early years.


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Re: Oil type, no big difference | GDI carbon [Re: wemay] #4774556 06/01/18 03:13 PM
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My model/year car is plagued with deposit issues. The TSB work I have seen done on majority of the cars read about was around 35k. On mine, they couldn't replicate until 73k, and even then I wasn't having any consistent trouble with it. The offered and I told them sure. So new rings went in and whatever else. I am a believer in low NOACK for DI deposit, but then the ring tension was so low in the IS's that the PCV would shoot a stream of oil into the intake. Beat on the car for a little while, and you need to top off the oil.
TSB or anything else has not been able to replace the cleaning power of gasoline though, still have to clean the carbon off. Just depends how often.


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Re: Oil type, no big difference | GDI carbon [Re: wemay] #4774559 06/01/18 03:17 PM
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It happens on every single Kia and Hyundai GDI car. Every single one over 30k Miles I’ve had apart has had junk on the intake valves. MPI engines USUALLY don’t. I’ve had hundreds of Kia intakes off over the last 5 years. I’ve seen some MPI cars with a quarter million miles with spotless intake valves. GDI is a joke.


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Re: Oil type, no big difference | GDI carbon [Re: wemay] #4774570 06/01/18 03:27 PM
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Kia/Hyundai is bottom of the line anyways so I would expect problems. I would move towards something known for better reliability if you don't have mechanical skills to fix your issues.


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Re: Oil type, no big difference | GDI carbon [Re: Silverado12] #4774576 06/01/18 03:34 PM
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Originally Posted By: Silverado12
Kia/Hyundai is bottom of the line anyways so I would expect problems. I would move towards something known for better reliability if you don't have mechanical skills to fix your issues.


LOL crackmeup
Here we go again. Clearly not up with the times.


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Re: Oil type, no big difference | GDI carbon [Re: wemay] #4774586 06/01/18 03:40 PM
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trolling

Re: Oil type, no big difference | GDI carbon [Re: wemay] #4774589 06/01/18 03:42 PM
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Hah!! Knee jerk invitation for Hyundai/Kia bashing just waiting for the next next opportunity.

My question would be if I have an over 5 year old Hyundai DI car with no apparent DI-related issues and 80K miles ( as I do ) does that make it a joke...or does the joke center around getting 120K-150K miles ( how long I typically keep a car ) with none of these issues?? Does that make it an anomaly at that point??

I know too many people with DI cars and heavy miles to take this incessant B.S. seriously as a blanket statement.

Personally, I'm waiting for the 2019 Excel to come out because it's supposed to have side draft carbs.

Re: Oil type, no big difference | GDI carbon [Re: Nick1994] #4774596 06/01/18 03:47 PM
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demarpaint Offline
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Originally Posted By: Nick1994
Everyone talks about carbon deposits with GDI, but how do they know how much this happens? Where can you see this? Sounds like a lot of speculation from people who haven't torn their engine apart to check whether it even happens or not.


The best people to ask are the techs servicing them at the dealerships. One or two people's personal experiences don't mean much.


God Bless Our Troops

Re: Oil type, no big difference | GDI carbon [Re: wemay] #4774597 06/01/18 03:50 PM
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I have to believe that driving patterns and possibly fuel choice matter here. A typical GDI vehicle that sees 80% of its trips less than a few miles running on cheap generic 87 octane gasoline would seem to me one of those mentioned with buildup at 30k. There are a lot of these situations out there. Many drivers who own a GDI don’t even know what it means.


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Re: Oil type, no big difference | GDI carbon [Re: wemay] #4774600 06/01/18 03:53 PM
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Empirical data would be the best "person" to ask and not techs at the dealership....

Re: Oil type, no big difference | GDI carbon [Re: Vuflanovsky] #4774605 06/01/18 03:59 PM
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Originally Posted By: Vuflanovsky
Hah!! Knee jerk invitation for Hyundai/Kia bashing just waiting for the next next opportunity.

My question would be if I have an over 5 year old Hyundai DI car with no apparent DI-related issues and 80K miles ( as I do ) does that make it a joke...or does the joke center around getting 120K-150K miles ( how long I typically keep a car ) with none of these issues?? Does that make it an anomaly at that point??

I know too many people with DI cars and heavy miles to take this incessant B.S. seriously as a blanket statement.

Personally, I'm waiting for the 2019 Excel to come out because it's supposed to have side draft carbs.


As do I. The 2.0T in my sig...100K miles, no drivabilty issues or anything else to speak of. It's been the most reliable vehicle I've ever owned or leased. Yes, anecdotal.


2018 KIA Sportage LX 2.4 AWD:
EDGE EP 5W30, PH9688

2013 Hyundai Santa Fe Sport 2.0T:
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Re: Oil type, no big difference | GDI carbon [Re: wemay] #4774613 06/01/18 04:13 PM
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I installed a catch can on our new Impala 3.6 DI (will post photos this weekend) as a bit of insurance against intake valve deposits. Whether or not it is needed, who knows for sure. I believe it should help prevent oil from getting to the intake. It wasn't hard to install, and can be removed easily if warranty is a concern. I like tinkering, so I didn't mind installing it.

Last edited by carviewsonic; 06/01/18 04:13 PM.

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Re: Oil type, no big difference | GDI carbon [Re: wemay] #4774632 06/01/18 04:28 PM
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Originally Posted By: wemay
Originally Posted By: Vuflanovsky
Hah!! Knee jerk invitation for Hyundai/Kia bashing just waiting for the next next opportunity.

My question would be if I have an over 5 year old Hyundai DI car with no apparent DI-related issues and 80K miles ( as I do ) does that make it a joke...or does the joke center around getting 120K-150K miles ( how long I typically keep a car ) with none of these issues?? Does that make it an anomaly at that point??

I know too many people with DI cars and heavy miles to take this incessant B.S. seriously as a blanket statement.

Personally, I'm waiting for the 2019 Excel to come out because it's supposed to have side draft carbs.


As do I. The 2.0T in my sig...100K miles, no drivabilty issues or anything else to speak of. It's been the most reliable vehicle I've ever owned or leased. Yes, anecdotal.


Yep. At a certain point, the empirical and the anecdotal come together...and my guess is that blanket statements about DI, carbon deposits, and what to expect and when, don't pass the smell test for people who take care of their cars or might have designs that are more or less prone to coking, etc.

Re: Oil type, no big difference | GDI carbon [Re: wemay] #4774669 06/01/18 05:05 PM
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Cheers2


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EDGE EP 5W30, PH9688
Re: Oil type, no big difference | GDI carbon [Re: demarpaint] #4774673 06/01/18 05:08 PM
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Originally Posted By: demarpaint
Originally Posted By: Nick1994
Everyone talks about carbon deposits with GDI, but how do they know how much this happens? Where can you see this? Sounds like a lot of speculation from people who haven't torn their engine apart to check whether it even happens or not.


The best people to ask are the techs servicing them at the dealerships. One or two people's personal experiences don't mean much.


Think 69 Torino is a Kia tech …

Re: Oil type, no big difference | GDI carbon [Re: 4WD] #4774691 06/01/18 05:25 PM
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Originally Posted By: 4WD
Originally Posted By: demarpaint
Originally Posted By: Nick1994
Everyone talks about carbon deposits with GDI, but how do they know how much this happens? Where can you see this? Sounds like a lot of speculation from people who haven't torn their engine apart to check whether it even happens or not.


The best people to ask are the techs servicing them at the dealerships. One or two people's personal experiences don't mean much.


Think 69 Torino is a Kia tech …


And there you have it! I've spoken to a few myself, it is also brand specific in many cases.


God Bless Our Troops

Re: Oil type, no big difference | GDI carbon [Re: Nick1994] #4774693 06/01/18 05:27 PM
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Originally Posted By: Nick1994
Everyone talks about carbon deposits with GDI, but how do they know how much this happens? Where can you see this? Sounds like a lot of speculation from people who haven't torn their engine apart to check whether it even happens or not.
*Only way to tell is with a bore scope !


'17 Hyundai Sonata 2.4L GDI 5W30 Valvoline Advanced Syn / Fram Ultra
'10 Hyundai Elantra 2.0L 5W30 QSUD / Fram Ultra
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Re: Oil type, no big difference | GDI carbon [Re: Silverado12] #4774713 06/01/18 05:38 PM
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Originally Posted By: Silverado12
Kia/Hyundai is bottom of the line anyways so I would expect problems. I would move towards something known for better reliability if you don't have mechanical skills to fix your issues.
*Here is my plan to deal with my bottom of the line Hyundai GDI engine : 1) Use Top Tier Fuel 2 ) Use low NOACK D1 Gen 2 synthetic oil 3)stay with 5K mile OCI's max 4) Use fuel system cleaner before every oil change 5)Use CRC Intake Valve Cleaner every 15K miles 6) Lastly , change spark plugs slightly early ... I have 16K miles on my Sonata GDI engine now ... If I still end up with a carbon build up issue after 40K miles - then I give up (lol !)


'17 Hyundai Sonata 2.4L GDI 5W30 Valvoline Advanced Syn / Fram Ultra
'10 Hyundai Elantra 2.0L 5W30 QSUD / Fram Ultra
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Re: Oil type, no big difference | GDI carbon [Re: wemay] #4774796 06/01/18 06:54 PM
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Compared to NOACk "oil thickening?" The crank case os full of oil mist and blow by products making any evaporation of the oil
in consequential.


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Re: Oil type, no big difference | GDI carbon [Re: CT8] #4774807 06/01/18 07:01 PM
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Originally Posted By: CT8
Compared to NOACk "oil thickening?" The crank case os full of oil mist and blow by products making any evaporation of the oil
in consequential.


Not true. Oil in a gaseous state is far more likely to stick and result in a deposit than in liquid form (mist).


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Re: Oil type, no big difference | GDI carbon [Re: Silverado12] #4774876 06/01/18 08:19 PM
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That’s not a fair comment or statement. Hyundai and Kia come a long way in short period of time and make a good vehicle. My first car was a 03 Tiburon GT V6 and was all around a great car same with my fathers 03 Sonata and 07 Santa Fe. Many Direct injection engines are having the carbon issue even the German automakers.


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Re: Oil type, no big difference | GDI carbon [Re: Silverado12] #4774880 06/01/18 08:28 PM
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Originally Posted By: Silverado12
Kia/Hyundai is bottom of the line anyways so I would expect problems. I would move towards something known for better reliability if you don't have mechanical skills to fix your issues.


You are just un/misinformed.


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03 chevy avalanche 83k synpwr 5w30
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Re: Oil type, no big difference | GDI carbon [Re: PimTac] #4774917 06/01/18 09:12 PM
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Originally Posted By: PimTac
I have to believe that driving patterns and possibly fuel choice matter here. A typical GDI vehicle that sees 80% of its trips less than a few miles running on cheap generic 87 octane gasoline would seem to me one of those mentioned with buildup at 30k. There are a lot of these situations out there. Many drivers who own a GDI don’t even know what it means.


That and lack of timely OCIs or at best, following the OLM which is incorrect.

Re: Oil type, no big difference | GDI carbon [Re: wemay] #4774947 06/01/18 09:41 PM
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Does the length of OCI's really have any affect of the carbon buildup on the intake valves?

or is dilution a concern?

Last edited by mx5miata; 06/01/18 09:42 PM.

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Re: Oil type, no big difference | GDI carbon [Re: mx5miata] #4774970 06/01/18 10:04 PM
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Originally Posted By: mx5miata
Does the length of OCI's really have any affect of the carbon buildup on the intake valves?

or is dilution a concern?


My understanding is that fuel dilution leads to a drop in the flash point of the oil, leading to more burn off, leading to more oil vapor passing thru the intake.....

Re: Oil type, no big difference | GDI carbon [Re: wemay] #4774971 06/01/18 10:05 PM
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My GDI Kia is going on 85K. No issues whatsoever. I will say that I change the oil every 5K and my driving is probably 85% highway. One way to work is 25 highway miles. The other 10 is usually a lot of traffic though. That may be the biggest part of imy success is I get the engine good and hot every day. Other than factory fill and the first oil change (semi-Synthetic) all oil changes have been whatever full synthetic I can get cheap. I use Techron every oil change and usually use top tier fuel. Usually I use 5W-20 in winter and 5W-30 in summer. So I am happy with my “bottom of the line” KIA.

Last edited by Urshurak776; 06/01/18 10:09 PM.

2012 Hyundai Santa Fe, 145,000 miles, Havoline Pro DS Full Syn 10W-30, COS3593A Champion Filter.
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Re: Oil type, no big difference | GDI carbon [Re: wemay] #4775029 06/01/18 11:15 PM
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Oil is not the main cause of DI carbon build up, EGR is. The quality of fuel you're using will affect how much soot is in the EGR, it has a much bigger impact than oil choice.

Re: Oil type, no big difference | GDI carbon [Re: Urshurak776] #4775033 06/01/18 11:23 PM
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Originally Posted By: Urshurak776
My GDI Kia is going on 85K. No issues whatsoever. I will say that I change the oil every 5K and my driving is probably 85% highway. One way to work is 25 highway miles. The other 10 is usually a lot of traffic though. That may be the biggest part of imy success is I get the engine good and hot every day. Other than factory fill and the first oil change (semi-Synthetic) all oil changes have been whatever full synthetic I can get cheap. I use Techron every oil change and usually use top tier fuel. Usually I use 5W-20 in winter and 5W-30 in summer. So I am happy with my “bottom of the line” KIA.


I'm curious what does your oil look like at the end of your oil changes? My girlfriend does 3k mile oil changes and her oil is tar black even immediately after an oil change. 60k miles on her 13 Sonata. Smells like gas too


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Re: Oil type, no big difference | GDI carbon [Re: caprice_2nv] #4775101 06/02/18 05:01 AM
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Originally Posted By: caprice_2nv
Originally Posted By: Urshurak776
My GDI Kia is going on 85K. No issues whatsoever. I will say that I change the oil every 5K and my driving is probably 85% highway. One way to work is 25 highway miles. The other 10 is usually a lot of traffic though. That may be the biggest part of imy success is I get the engine good and hot every day. Other than factory fill and the first oil change (semi-Synthetic) all oil changes have been whatever full synthetic I can get cheap. I use Techron every oil change and usually use top tier fuel. Usually I use 5W-20 in winter and 5W-30 in summer. So I am happy with my “bottom of the line” KIA.


I'm curious what does your oil look like at the end of your oil changes? My girlfriend does 3k mile oil changes and her oil is tar black even immediately after an oil change. 60k miles on her 13 Sonata. Smells like gas too


Almost all modern GDI engines suffer from this, caused by low tension piston rings all in pursuit of MPG gains. It's tar black because of all the soot generated by high combustion temps like in a diesel.

Re: Oil type, no big difference | GDI carbon [Re: wemay] #4775120 06/02/18 06:08 AM
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i run a qt. of 15-40 rotella in every oil change. treat it like a worn engine.

Re: Oil type, no big difference | GDI carbon [Re: 08z06] #4775129 06/02/18 06:36 AM
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Originally Posted By: 08z06
i run a qt. of 15-40 rotella in every oil change. treat it like a worn engine.


You run a qt of 15w40 in what?


2018 KIA Sportage LX 2.4 AWD:
EDGE EP 5W30, PH9688

2013 Hyundai Santa Fe Sport 2.0T:
EDGE EP 5W30, PH9688
Re: Oil type, no big difference | GDI carbon [Re: caprice_2nv] #4775242 06/02/18 08:58 AM
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Originally Posted By: caprice_2nv
Originally Posted By: Urshurak776
My GDI Kia is going on 85K. No issues whatsoever. I will say that I change the oil every 5K and my driving is probably 85% highway. One way to work is 25 highway miles. The other 10 is usually a lot of traffic though. That may be the biggest part of imy success is I get the engine good and hot every day. Other than factory fill and the first oil change (semi-Synthetic) all oil changes have been whatever full synthetic I can get cheap. I use Techron every oil change and usually use top tier fuel. Usually I use 5W-20 in winter and 5W-30 in summer. So I am happy with my “bottom of the line” KIA.


I'm curious what does your oil look like at the end of your oil changes? My girlfriend does 3k mile oil changes and her oil is tar black even immediately after an oil change. 60k miles on her 13 Sonata. Smells like gas too


I don't think it looks bad at all. The paper towel test looks no worse then the oil from my non GDI Hyundai. My engine seems to be very clean. I cut my oil filters also. No issues. I really think Hyundai/Kia have good GDI engines if maintenance is done properly.


2012 Hyundai Santa Fe, 145,000 miles, Havoline Pro DS Full Syn 10W-30, COS3593A Champion Filter.
2014 Kia Rio, 85,000 miles, Havoline Pro DS Full Syn 5W-30, WIX Filter.
Re: Oil type, no big difference | GDI carbon [Re: wemay] #4775270 06/02/18 09:33 AM
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I have 130 000 km on my 2011 Kia Optima. I installed a catch can in January 2012 and have had no problems to date. I change the oil every 10 000 km using 5W20 in the winter and 5W30 in the summer. Most reliable car I have ever owned. I also have a 2005 Civic.

Re: Oil type, no big difference | GDI carbon [Re: wemay] #4775336 06/02/18 10:46 AM
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My best friend that still works in the oil change bay I used to, says pretty well all the Hyundai's and kia GDI engines he sees have black oil before and usually even after he changes it. Texted me about one the other day that runs full synthetic and was only at about 4500 miles and the oil was black like a diesel before and after the change. They've also seen 2 personally come in with the famous failed rod bearings that the NHTSA safety recall is all about. I'm sure the dealership sees a lot more than an independent garage since most people should have gotten their recall notice by now.

I'm just concerned about whether the black as tar oil is just because of the direct injection or if her engine is going to fail like so many others have.

The freshly changed oil in her car looks much worse than the dirty oil with 5k miles I drained out of my 83 Caprice which is a carbureted engine and probably has some fuel dilution issues of it's own.

Last edited by caprice_2nv; 06/02/18 10:59 AM.

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Re: Oil type, no big difference | GDI carbon [Re: Nick1994] #4775352 06/02/18 10:57 AM
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Originally Posted By: Nick1994
Everyone talks about carbon deposits with GDI, but how do they know how much this happens? Where can you see this? Sounds like a lot of speculation from people who haven't torn their engine apart to check whether it even happens or not.


This!

I also got a 2.4 GDI Santa Fe with 110k miles. Engine and transmission perform the same as when I got it. Regular maintenance and you'll be ok.

Last edited by Matagonka; 06/02/18 10:58 AM.

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Re: Oil type, no big difference | GDI carbon [Re: wemay] #4775448 06/02/18 12:46 PM
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Yeah, but you're unique....just like everybody else smile

Basic knowledge and experience might tell you that you can't make blanket statements about GDI-related issues. Does a Hyundai Gamma II with 80K miles on it have the same basic carbon involvement or susceptibility issues as an Eco Boost with 100K miles...and if neither experience driveability issues or hesitation, mpg loss, etc. in that time, does that mean it's right around the corner?? I'm sure it does on here, but I'd be much more interested in the empirical reality circa 2018 and the individual, well-maintained engines.

Re: Oil type, no big difference | GDI carbon [Re: caprice_2nv] #4775806 06/02/18 08:56 PM
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Originally Posted By: caprice_2nv
My best friend that still works in the oil change bay I used to, says pretty well all the Hyundai's and kia GDI engines he sees have black oil before and usually even after he changes it. Texted me about one the other day that runs full synthetic and was only at about 4500 miles and the oil was black like a diesel before and after the change. They've also seen 2 personally come in with the famous failed rod bearings that the NHTSA safety recall is all about. I'm sure the dealership sees a lot more than an independent garage since most people should have gotten their recall notice by now.

I'm just concerned about whether the black as tar oil is just because of the direct injection or if her engine is going to fail like so many others have.

The freshly changed oil in her car looks much worse than the dirty oil with 5k miles I drained out of my 83 Caprice which is a carbureted engine and probably has some fuel dilution issues of it's own.


Why is your friend texting you about an oils appearance from his work?

Edit: I see your gf owns one.

Concerning the oils color on my two Hyundai...nothing out of the ordinary when compared to previous, non-GDI I've owned



2018 KIA Sportage LX 2.4 AWD:
EDGE EP 5W30, PH9688

2013 Hyundai Santa Fe Sport 2.0T:
EDGE EP 5W30, PH9688
Re: Oil type, no big difference | GDI carbon [Re: wemay] #4775848 06/02/18 09:48 PM
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That's very helpful to hear Wemay. In the other thread some of our members had thoughts about that. I do think it can matter at times. Like when a vehicle is short tripped a whole lot and the oil has a strong smell of gasoline. Versus my car which looks far, far different because of a lot of long trips, seeing operating temps for a long time, and doesn't smell like gasoline much at all. Running pattern does make a big difference in how it looks and smells. If it never ever changed then it would not matter. Or if it changed extremely quickly then it would not mean anything either. Kind of like exercising and blood pressure. Changes do happen. Systolic pressure does increase with exercise normally. A very high amount if increase over and above a normal expected range is not normal or safe. So changes outside of a normal range are concerning. The opposite is true has well. If it drops it is very concerning has well. My step father who had open heart surgery to help with his atrial fibrillation had a systolic pressure of 72 and diastolic pressure of 38. His heart rate was 150s all the way down to the 40s. The AFib was still present and causing him a serious issue. He was rushed across the street into the ER to get IV Cardizem to help get his heart rate back into a normal range and rhythm and IV fluid bolus to help get his pressure back up.


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Re: Oil type, no big difference | GDI carbon [Re: wemay] #4914631 11/04/18 03:29 PM
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Just drove my girlfriend's 13 Sonata around town today after dropping her off at work, so I could install her winter tires. When you turn the radio and heater fan off there is very noticeable spark knock happening under acceleration (usually every time it upshifts). It has just under 100,000kms so 62k miles on it.

She adds a fuel system additive occasionally because a mechanic where she used to get her oil changes told her about the issues with these engines. I would be willing to bet that most of these cars driving around have spark knock and the driver's don't notice. First of all you would have to know what spark knock is and sounds like and turn off the radio etc to listen for it, second of all most people with these cats don't know or care about maintenance related stuff. I think this is part of why so many of them are grenading now.

That and they should have installed a low oil level sensor. Maybe when they designed it they didn't do enough testing to realize that they are all going to start burning oil eventually.

Since my girlfriend is not a car person and doesn't want to put any extra $ into using better oil in her car, I'm just going to let it play out and see how long before it seizes up on the highway like so many others are.


84 Olds Cutlass - 350 Olds
83 Chevy Caprice - 305 Sbc
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Re: Oil type, no big difference | GDI carbon [Re: wemay] #4914640 11/04/18 03:37 PM
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In some Chrysler manuals they write in there that minor spark nock is perfectly acceptable. I'm not sure I would be ok with it but just so you know.


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Re: Oil type, no big difference | GDI carbon [Re: wemay] #4914648 11/04/18 03:45 PM
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I have always been in the camp of never liking spark knock. It was so prevalent in the 70’s and 80’s especially with Chrysler lean burn motors. The experts said then that light or occasional spark knock meant you were at peak efficiency for fuel economy.

I’ll take a quiet engine any day.


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Re: Oil type, no big difference | GDI carbon [Re: wemay] #4914654 11/04/18 03:50 PM
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I had a fair amount of spark knock in the 05 Matrix which was solved by replacing the intake manifold gasket. So glad I had that taken care of. Whew!

caprice_2nv, I start using some CRC Intake and GDI cleaner right before the next oil change. I'd also monitor oil level weekly since those engines can become a big risk at that mileage. Maybe use or start using Valvoline Maxlife, top tier fuel, etc...

Re: Oil type, no big difference | GDI carbon [Re: wemay] #4914664 11/04/18 04:01 PM
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Well I don't do the oil changes on this one. Since we will likely be needing the recall coverage we want the receipts for all the oil changes. I know they aren't being that picky about it from all the stories I've read, but we're in Canada and they likely could get away with not covering as much here.

Also right after the oil change it was half a qt low (probably they didn't know about the updated oil capacity) but now after 600 miles and 1 month it's above the full. So the fuel dilution is obviously helping to keep the level up. LOL

Last edited by caprice_2nv; 11/04/18 04:02 PM.

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Re: Oil type, no big difference | GDI carbon [Re: wemay] #4914668 11/04/18 04:06 PM
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You can also change to a cooler plug that helps a lot I find where fuel choice and proper maintenance doesn't work.


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'06 Santa Fe - 535k KM (Retired)

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Re: Oil type, no big difference | GDI carbon [Re: wemay] #4914763 11/04/18 05:21 PM
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I had spark knock (slight ping) on a previous 2.4 Sonata GLS. I changed the plugs and battery (battery needed replacing) and in that case, the knock went away. Not sure why but it did happen, thankfully. Hyundai also told me "slight pinging" was normal.

Last edited by wemay; 11/04/18 05:37 PM.

2018 KIA Sportage LX 2.4 AWD:
EDGE EP 5W30, PH9688

2013 Hyundai Santa Fe Sport 2.0T:
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Re: Oil type, no big difference | GDI carbon [Re: wemay] #4914906 11/04/18 07:28 PM
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If it was my car I would definitely try the colder plugs and do a decarbon treatment but since it's hers and as I said she's only willing to do the regular scheduled maintenance as that's what she has budgeted for. The spark plugs are a long ways from being due for replacement.

The battery is likely going to be replaced soon after it gets tested at the garage I used to work at. The place she had her oil changes done at said it tested weak and I agree it sounds a little weak sometimes. I can't imagine how that would help a pinging situation other than forcing the ECM to relearn but the battery was recently disconnected long enough for that anyways.

I rarely drive the car so I won't know if that fixes it short term or not.


84 Olds Cutlass - 350 Olds
83 Chevy Caprice - 305 Sbc
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Re: Oil type, no big difference | GDI carbon [Re: wemay] #4914910 11/04/18 07:32 PM
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I'm sure slight pinging is normal for these cars because they are all going to have at least some amount of carbon buildup. That's what you get with direct injection.

But it's definitely going to have an effect on longevity. Check out www.carcomplaints.com if you want to see the amount of reported engine failures and compare it to pretty well any other vehicle.


84 Olds Cutlass - 350 Olds
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Re: Oil type, no big difference | GDI carbon [Re: wemay] #4914924 11/04/18 07:44 PM
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What are the long term fuel trims reading? Perhaps it's running too lean because of a faulty sensor.


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'06 Santa Fe - 535k KM (Retired)

There is no such thing as "lifetime" fluids! mad
Re: Oil type, no big difference | GDI carbon [Re: wemay] #4914932 11/04/18 07:56 PM
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It's possible but the most likely cause is carbon buildup. It does 95% city driving/very short trips and never gets full throttle.

I don't have easy access to a scanner. There is no check engine light on and the pinging is only loud enough to notice with the radio and everything off.

The most I'm going to do is suggest she put another bottle of techron or similar fuel additive in it.


84 Olds Cutlass - 350 Olds
83 Chevy Caprice - 305 Sbc
79 Honda CX500
Re: Oil type, no big difference | GDI carbon [Re: wemay] #4914978 11/04/18 08:38 PM
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Sorry to hear. I've had excellent results from our Hyundai (the KIA is my first) vehicles. Our Santa Fe 2.0T is getting close to 150K miles with zero issues while driving 95% city, idles extensively and has two oil changes where VWB was used. Other than the Sonata ping mentioned earlier, no other issues from our previous 3 Hyundai. But i stay on top of the maintenance religiously. Not necessarily syn oil but more so OCI and TT fuel.

I wonder if colder climates are harder on di vehicles.


2018 KIA Sportage LX 2.4 AWD:
EDGE EP 5W30, PH9688

2013 Hyundai Santa Fe Sport 2.0T:
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Re: Oil type, no big difference | GDI carbon [Re: wemay] #4914988 11/04/18 08:48 PM
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I would definitely say the cold climate is worse on her car. Last winter her oil would be completely black within a week after an oil change. Once the weather warmed up and I also got her to start changing it at 3 or 4 months max instead of waiting for 3k miles then the oil started to just look a bit dirty but not black like it was last winter.

We'll see if it goes black again once the temperature drops despite the 3 month oil change schedule. I wish I could take over the maintenance and put good stuff in it doing it myself here in the driveway but I don't want to be blamed when it fails anyways. I know that I could reduce the chance of it failing.

She doesn't mind if I go crazy on the maintenance on my cars but she also knows we can jump in them and drive 4 hours on the highway in either one and not worry about making it there and back even though the cars are 35 years old.


84 Olds Cutlass - 350 Olds
83 Chevy Caprice - 305 Sbc
79 Honda CX500
Re: Oil type, no big difference | GDI carbon [Re: wemay] #4914999 11/04/18 08:59 PM
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Definitely wishing you guys luck with the Sonata.


2018 KIA Sportage LX 2.4 AWD:
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2013 Hyundai Santa Fe Sport 2.0T:
EDGE EP 5W30, PH9688
Re: Oil type, no big difference | GDI carbon [Re: wemay] #4915207 11/05/18 07:27 AM
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Much appreciated! I wish you luck with yours as well.


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Re: Oil type, no big difference | GDI carbon [Re: wemay] #4915584 11/05/18 01:15 PM
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My 2017 Santa Fe 3.3L V6 is nudging 35k miles. No sign of pinging even with the radio off and windows up/down.

But then again, I run TT 92 Octane fuel, change the oil according to sever service intervals, and I wind it out at least once a week.

One thing I have noticed is the lack of cold start up timing chain rattle on this engine. My 06 Colorado 3.5L I-5 would always rattle for a split second upon cold start up. Same oil in both - syn 5W30.

Re: Oil type, no big difference | GDI carbon [Re: wemay] #4915845 11/05/18 06:22 PM
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I wanted to wind hers out the other day when I was driving it alone just to see if it blows black smoke because of the carbon buildup but I'm honestly afraid of taking out a rod bearing while I'm driving it or having it fail the day after I drove it and have her think I caused it, so I drove it gently and just listened for the pinging (for science).

I haven't heard of any issues with the v6 versions but the 2.4 and 2.0t are blowing up quite regularly according to the reading I've done. They are even having a huge increase in fires lately which could possibly be due to the amount that are getting engine replacements, and possibly resultant fuel leaks from something left loose after (very high pressure on any direct injection engine).


84 Olds Cutlass - 350 Olds
83 Chevy Caprice - 305 Sbc
79 Honda CX500
Re: Oil type, no big difference | GDI carbon [Re: caprice_2nv] #4916285 11/06/18 08:16 AM
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*Are you referring to late model Hyundai / Kia 2.0 turbos and 2.4 non - turbo GDI engines ?... I run 5w30 D1 Gen 2 synthetic oils at <5K OCI's , top tier gas , a bottle of techron right before an oil change and lastly every 10K miles I run a 1/2 bottle of CRC intake valve cleaner through the vacuum PCV line going back into the engine ... So far at 20K miles in my '17 Sonata 2.4 non - turbo GDI I have experienced zero issues . My protocol is probably a bit much but so far it has been working for me .
Originally Posted by caprice_2nv
I wanted to wind hers out the other day when I was driving it alone just to see if it blows black smoke because of the carbon buildup but I'm honestly afraid of taking out a rod bearing while I'm driving it or having it fail the day after I drove it and have her think I caused it, so I drove it gently and just listened for the pinging (for science).

I haven't heard of any issues with the v6 versions but the 2.4 and 2.0t are blowing up quite regularly according to the reading I've done. They are even having a huge increase in fires lately which could possibly be due to the amount that are getting engine replacements, and possibly resultant fuel leaks from something left loose after (very high pressure on any direct injection engine).


'17 Hyundai Sonata 2.4L GDI 5W30 Valvoline Advanced Syn / Fram Ultra
'10 Hyundai Elantra 2.0L 5W30 QSUD / Fram Ultra
'07 Kia Sedona 3.8L 5W30 M1 EP HM / Fram Ultra
Re: Oil type, no big difference | GDI carbon [Re: wemay] #4916309 11/06/18 08:53 AM
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I just reordered a baffled catch can for the KIA. We'll see how much it collects. The one in the (now gone) Sonata 2.4 didn't collect much at all. Maybe this option would be a good idea for the OP's car...stemming the tide somewhat.

Last edited by wemay; 11/06/18 09:11 AM.

2018 KIA Sportage LX 2.4 AWD:
EDGE EP 5W30, PH9688

2013 Hyundai Santa Fe Sport 2.0T:
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Re: Oil type, no big difference | GDI carbon [Re: wemay] #4916321 11/06/18 09:21 AM
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I have 157K on DI Lexus IS 250. No problems.

Changed out PCV
Used low NOACK oils
Used PEA products
Most miles are highway miles at 70+
Rev hard (bc its a manual and I enjoy that)

Re: Oil type, no big difference | GDI carbon [Re: ChrisD46] #4916345 11/06/18 09:41 AM
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Originally Posted by ChrisD46
*Are you referring to late model Hyundai / Kia 2.0 turbos and 2.4 non - turbo GDI engines ?... I run 5w30 D1 Gen 2 synthetic oils at <5K OCI's , top tier gas , a bottle of techron right before an oil change and lastly every 10K miles I run a 1/2 bottle of CRC intake valve cleaner through the vacuum PCV line going back into the engine ... So far at 20K miles in my '17 Sonata 2.4 non - turbo GDI I have experienced zero issues . My protocol is probably a bit much but so far it has been working for me .

This is a good regimen.


Last edited by rsalan; 11/06/18 09:42 AM.

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Re: Oil type, no big difference | GDI carbon [Re: caprice_2nv] #4916363 11/06/18 09:58 AM
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Originally Posted by caprice_2nv
I wanted to wind hers out the other day when I was driving it alone just to see if it blows black smoke because of the carbon buildup but I'm honestly afraid of taking out a rod bearing while I'm driving it or having it fail the day after I drove it and have her think I caused it, so I drove it gently and just listened for the pinging (for science).

I haven't heard of any issues with the v6 versions but the 2.4 and 2.0t are blowing up quite regularly according to the reading I've done. They are even having a huge increase in fires lately which could possibly be due to the amount that are getting engine replacements, and possibly resultant fuel leaks from something left loose after (very high pressure on any direct injection engine).


The different versions blowing up is due to Korean manufacture vs US manufacture I believe.

Also, from what I have gathered, KIA/Hyundai do a two stage injection during the combustion cycle. One is while the intake valves are still open enough to get some fuel sprayed on the back.

I also read that they don't use a traditional PCV system. They have modified it to reduce gunk sucked back in across the intake valves.

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