Recent Topics
Front end sounded like an old creaking door...
by ZZman
2 minutes 9 seconds ago
For those that like 50/50 coolant
by WyrTwister
24 minutes 12 seconds ago
For those that like 50/50 coolant
by WyrTwister
24 minutes 56 seconds ago
where to get fuel filter installed for cheap?
by ThugStyle
32 minutes 43 seconds ago
Philosophy of UOA's?
by ThugStyle
40 minutes 41 seconds ago
Healthy Looking Plugs?
by FlyPenFly
42 minutes 38 seconds ago
Motor Oil Shelf Life-Chevron Answers The ?????
by Zee09
Today at 02:04 PM
Concrete Driveway Chemical Cleaning Options
by benjamming
Today at 01:28 PM
Laundering microfiber applicator pads
by wdn
Today at 12:59 PM
94 Honda Civic LX 1.6L Brake Master Cylinder
by Gito
Today at 12:34 PM
Recommendations for best oil filter for a
by dawgn86
Today at 12:32 PM
2016 Chevy Colorado - 6202 mi interval - RP 5w30
by c5z06
Today at 12:20 PM
Audi Will No Longer Sell A Manual Transmission In The US
by wemay
Today at 11:32 AM
West Coast Shaving - Free shipping - Continental US
by kwijibo
Today at 11:29 AM
Instant Karma
by Uphill_Both_Ways
Today at 11:08 AM
Any way to take plastic trim off inside Civic hatchback?
by paulri
Today at 10:35 AM
gas powered bicycle
by andyd
Today at 10:10 AM
Tire repair kits ?????
by Oldtom
Today at 09:54 AM
What mountain bikes for the wife and I
by skyactiv
Today at 09:39 AM
Cj-4 sae30?
by Chris142
Today at 08:51 AM
Newest Members
N175K, RadicalT, kcozad, ruddavator, RIVERWALK
65742 Registered Users
Who's Online
72 registered (andyd, 1JZ_E46, Astro_Guy, 2015_PSD, 1WildPig, 7 invisible), 1489 Guests and 43 Spiders online.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Forum Stats
65742 Members
67 Forums
288918 Topics
4819011 Posts

Max Online: 3590 @ 01/24/17 08:07 PM
Donate to BITOG
Page 1 of 3 1 2 3 >
Topic Options
#4771041 - 05/29/18 10:14 AM Oil surface tension
cpetroff Offline


Registered: 05/25/18
Posts: 2
Loc: Massachusetts, USA
Looking for a low viscosity oil with a high surface tension. Does PAO 6 or mineral oil have a higher surface tension at room temperature? Any additives that could increase surface tension? Other types of oils that have higher surface tension? Any ideas on how to measure surface tension?

Top
#4771055 - 05/29/18 10:37 AM Re: Oil surface tension [Re: cpetroff]
kschachn Online   content


Registered: 12/26/05
Posts: 9688
Loc: Upper Midwest
Originally Posted By: cpetroff
Looking for a low viscosity oil with a high surface tension. Does PAO 6 or mineral oil have a higher surface tension at room temperature? Any additives that could increase surface tension? Other types of oils that have higher surface tension? Any ideas on how to measure surface tension?

Absolutely, I used to do it all the time in college. You need a surface tensiometer.
_________________________
1994 BMW 530i, 228K
1996 Honda Accord, 263K
1999 Toyota Sienna, 398K
2000 Toyota ECHO, 267K

Top
#4771193 - 05/29/18 01:20 PM Re: Oil surface tension [Re: cpetroff]
DGXR Offline


Registered: 01/21/11
Posts: 163
Loc: California
Originally Posted By: cpetroff
Looking for a low viscosity oil with a high surface tension. Does PAO 6 or mineral oil have a higher surface tension at room temperature? Any additives that could increase surface tension? Other types of oils that have higher surface tension? Any ideas on how to measure surface tension?


When you say surface tension, do you mean oil film strength? This is what helps prevent metal-to-metal contact inside engines before oil pressure builds up.

I'm just not sure how the surface tension of an oil relates to its performance.
_________________________
1995 Corvette base LT1 6-speed
2006 Tacoma 2.7 2wd access cab

Top
#4771197 - 05/29/18 01:22 PM Re: Oil surface tension [Re: cpetroff]
kschachn Online   content


Registered: 12/26/05
Posts: 9688
Loc: Upper Midwest
And as far as I know it also isnít related to the viscosity.
_________________________
1994 BMW 530i, 228K
1996 Honda Accord, 263K
1999 Toyota Sienna, 398K
2000 Toyota ECHO, 267K

Top
#4771330 - 05/29/18 03:42 PM Re: Oil surface tension [Re: cpetroff]
MotoTribologist Offline


Registered: 02/03/16
Posts: 601
Loc: NJ, USA
Originally Posted By: cpetroff
Does PAO 6 or mineral oil have a higher surface tension at room temperature?

No difference that could be discerned outside of a surface tensiometer.

Originally Posted By: cpetroff
Any additives that could increase surface tension?

Tackifiers should increase the surface tension.

Originally Posted By: cpetroff
Other types of oils that have higher surface tension?

Bar and chain oil would have a pretty stout surface tension

Originally Posted By: cpetroff
Any ideas on how to measure surface tension?

As mentioned above, surface tensiometer

Top
#4771355 - 05/29/18 04:07 PM Re: Oil surface tension [Re: MotoTribologist]
kschachn Online   content


Registered: 12/26/05
Posts: 9688
Loc: Upper Midwest
Tackifiers make the oil cling but is that a direct correlation to surface tension?
_________________________
1994 BMW 530i, 228K
1996 Honda Accord, 263K
1999 Toyota Sienna, 398K
2000 Toyota ECHO, 267K

Top
#4771374 - 05/29/18 04:36 PM Re: Oil surface tension [Re: cpetroff]
Nyogtha Offline


Registered: 10/13/14
Posts: 2358
Loc: San Antonio, TX
Probably not on basics of surface tension is a function of cohesion while maintaining contact with a different surface is a function of adhesion, but perhaps someone like SOJ can chime in on the specific properties of tackifiers.
_________________________
"No matter how paranoid you are you're not paranoid enough. Tell the truth. Reach as many people as you can with it. That's your weapon." - Susanne Modeski, aka "Holly" to The Lone Gunmen

Top
#4771377 - 05/29/18 04:40 PM Re: Oil surface tension [Re: kschachn]
Nyogtha Offline


Registered: 10/13/14
Posts: 2358
Loc: San Antonio, TX
Originally Posted By: kschachn
Originally Posted By: cpetroff
Looking for a low viscosity oil with a high surface tension. Does PAO 6 or mineral oil have a higher surface tension at room temperature? Any additives that could increase surface tension? Other types of oils that have higher surface tension? Any ideas on how to measure surface tension?

Absolutely, I used to do it all the time in college. You need a surface tensiometer.

I think degree of curvature of a meniscus indicates something on a relative qualitative basis for surface tension without specific quantification IIRC.
_________________________
"No matter how paranoid you are you're not paranoid enough. Tell the truth. Reach as many people as you can with it. That's your weapon." - Susanne Modeski, aka "Holly" to The Lone Gunmen

Top
#4771397 - 05/29/18 05:06 PM Re: Oil surface tension [Re: MotoTribologist]
kschachn Online   content


Registered: 12/26/05
Posts: 9688
Loc: Upper Midwest
Originally Posted By: MotoTribologist
Originally Posted By: cpetroff
Any additives that could increase surface tension?

Tackifiers should increase the surface tension.

If that is the case then it would bead up and become less prone to adhesion.
_________________________
1994 BMW 530i, 228K
1996 Honda Accord, 263K
1999 Toyota Sienna, 398K
2000 Toyota ECHO, 267K

Top
#4771399 - 05/29/18 05:07 PM Re: Oil surface tension [Re: Nyogtha]
kschachn Online   content


Registered: 12/26/05
Posts: 9688
Loc: Upper Midwest
Originally Posted By: Nyogtha
I think degree of curvature of a meniscus indicates something on a relative qualitative basis for surface tension without specific quantification IIRC.

https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/measure-surface-tension-with-a-penny/
_________________________
1994 BMW 530i, 228K
1996 Honda Accord, 263K
1999 Toyota Sienna, 398K
2000 Toyota ECHO, 267K

Top
#4771402 - 05/29/18 05:10 PM Re: Oil surface tension [Re: kschachn]
MotoTribologist Offline


Registered: 02/03/16
Posts: 601
Loc: NJ, USA
Originally Posted By: kschachn
Tackifiers make the oil cling but is that a direct correlation to surface tension?

It depends on the type of tackifier. Those that improve cohesive properties will increase surface tension. Those that improve adhesive properties, should either have no effect or decrease the surface tension.

I suppose "polymer" would have been better than "tackifier" since tackifiers are typically referred to as adhesion-increasing additives.

Top
#4771725 - 05/29/18 09:46 PM Re: Oil surface tension [Re: cpetroff]
Hammehead Offline


Registered: 03/31/18
Posts: 118
Originally Posted By: cpetroff
Looking for a low viscosity oil with a high surface tension. Does PAO 6 or mineral oil have a higher surface tension at room temperature? Any additives that could increase surface tension? Other types of oils that have higher surface tension? Any ideas on how to measure surface tension?

You can compare surface tension between oils, by droppin it in water at 25C and see the one that beads up faster and remains most floating is the winner.
_________________________
ToYota Corolla XEI 2010 1zzfe
Kawasaki Ninja ZX9R B4
Taurus GL Vulcan
Citroen C5 phase I
I used to use syn, now whatever is on sale and never had problems. This noob knows stuff.

Top
#4771924 - 05/30/18 06:36 AM Re: Oil surface tension [Re: kschachn]
Nyogtha Offline


Registered: 10/13/14
Posts: 2358
Loc: San Antonio, TX
Originally Posted By: kschachn
Originally Posted By: Nyogtha
I think degree of curvature of a meniscus indicates something on a relative qualitative basis for surface tension without specific quantification IIRC.

https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/measure-surface-tension-with-a-penny/


https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Meniscus_(liquid)
_________________________
"No matter how paranoid you are you're not paranoid enough. Tell the truth. Reach as many people as you can with it. That's your weapon." - Susanne Modeski, aka "Holly" to The Lone Gunmen

Top
#4771948 - 05/30/18 07:21 AM Re: Oil surface tension [Re: Hammehead]
Ducked Online   content


Registered: 10/25/12
Posts: 4476
Loc: Taiwan
Originally Posted By: Hammehead

You can compare surface tension between oils, by droppin it in water at 25C and see the one that beads up faster and remains most floating is the winner.


Yeh, right.

And you'll be quoting "bead-up-speed" and "floatingness" to how many decimal places of what?

I've seen behaviour of an oil droplet suggested as a measure of oil degradation, and tried to read up on it quite a while ago. IIRC the idea is that polar compounds are formed during degredation which lower the surface tension via their greater affinity with water. IIRC again

(a) It doesn't work very well with modernish oils because they can contain polar molecules when fresh.
(b) Quantifying it by measuring surface tension is the mother of all metric nightmares.
(c) Surface tension measurements form the basis of no operational industrial oil quality tests, at all.

But maybe I missed something, or there's been a breakthrough.


Edited by Ducked (05/30/18 07:24 AM)

Top
#4772264 - 05/30/18 12:13 PM Re: Oil surface tension [Re: cpetroff]
cpetroff Offline


Registered: 05/25/18
Posts: 2
Loc: Massachusetts, USA
Appreciate all the help.

Top
Page 1 of 3 1 2 3 >