I don't think anyone has mentioned this yet but don't run the engine while the fluid is out of the tranny.
I did a boo-boo, oil change
- Thread starter miden851
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I THANK you all for all your constructive advice here;
I got the message loud and clear
The car performs just fine, no changes to report; it is an old car so I was willing to take a somewhat more risk with it but no more, while I wouldn't do the same to our Honda!
I got the message loud and clear
The car performs just fine, no changes to report; it is an old car so I was willing to take a somewhat more risk with it but no more, while I wouldn't do the same to our Honda!
Originally Posted By: Dallas69
What a dumb thing to do.
You just lost your BITOG card.
All your diy privileges have been cancelled.
And don't volunteer to help anyone else out with theirs either.
^^ this.
it was caused by a momentary lapse of reason, or the o.p. was hit by lightning.
What a dumb thing to do.
You just lost your BITOG card.
All your diy privileges have been cancelled.
And don't volunteer to help anyone else out with theirs either.
^^ this.
it was caused by a momentary lapse of reason, or the o.p. was hit by lightning.
3 Seconds without oil? Meh, have you heard a 2.5 Toyota or 3.7 Jeep before the oil filter fills? THAT noise will scare the bejesus out of ya! You'll think the timing chain is going to explode in the Toyota and the lifters blow apart in the Jeep.
Whenever I have the drain plug out of engine or transmission, or some other situation that would be a problem if the engine were to turn over, I put a big red strip of gaffer tape on the steering wheel with "DO NOT START" written on it.
To the OP, either drain with the drain plug, or pump out fluid with the cooler lines. You'll never get ALL the old fluid out, but the cooler line method may give a more complete flush without running things dry. A triple drain and fill that exchanges ~80% of the old fluid is a huge difference, and unless the transmission has been abused or is way overdue for fluid, 80% new is plenty good enough.
To the OP, either drain with the drain plug, or pump out fluid with the cooler lines. You'll never get ALL the old fluid out, but the cooler line method may give a more complete flush without running things dry. A triple drain and fill that exchanges ~80% of the old fluid is a huge difference, and unless the transmission has been abused or is way overdue for fluid, 80% new is plenty good enough.
garageman402
$100 Site Donor 2024
I agree with the comments about not running the engine to get more ATF out. Going thru the gears does nothing, since there is no oil pressure to engage anything because the pump is dry. Not sure what separates the torque converter inner parts but I wouldn't want them turning with no oil pressure. If you have a drain plug, just change it every other oil change, you're only getting about 50% change out anyway, so you will eventually change it all out, theoretically. Disconnecting the cooler line is a PIA and you still don't guaranty a 100% change out.
As far as engine damage for 3 seconds, probably none. You start the engine after an oil change and see the low pressure light on? That's about 3 seconds. If you don't pre-fill the filter, even longer. I crank mine over with wide open throttle (flood clear mode) for about 5 or 10 seconds to get oil flowing before I start it. Obviously, this only applies to computer controlled engines.......
As far as engine damage for 3 seconds, probably none. You start the engine after an oil change and see the low pressure light on? That's about 3 seconds. If you don't pre-fill the filter, even longer. I crank mine over with wide open throttle (flood clear mode) for about 5 or 10 seconds to get oil flowing before I start it. Obviously, this only applies to computer controlled engines.......
This is a case where the cure is worse than the disease. Standard manufacturer recommendation is to change the fluid and filter knowing that you only get 50% of the fluid out. Some people run their cars 200k on the original transmission fluid. On the other hand, I don't think the manufacturer planned for people to run their transmission without fluid in it. Possibly more damage gets done that way. What happens with the torque converter if there's no fluid in it? I doubt if he managed to drain that though. Same with the oil, maximum wear happens at startup. Probably no damage to the car, but a little more increased wear. It won't really last much longer even if you do get out every last old drop because guess what, when the oil is half used up, it's in worse shape than when you put fresh oil in it.
someone who knows what they're doing should be working on your cars
Jesus [censored] you can't be serious with that.
Just to get a little extra fluid out you would subject your transmission to that? I would think running a transmission dry for a few seconds is worse than leaving a little dirty fluid in. I can't even see how getting that extra fluid out makes sense for any change except the first on an extremely neglected transmission. If someone changes the fluid on their transmission regularly, each subsequent transmission the fluid wouldn't get dirty enough to warrant caring about a little left behind. In fact on a neglected transmission the left behind fluid would get cleaner with each drain and fill to the point where after the first it's pointless to care. You'd be stressing the transmission for no reason after the first.
As for the engine, who knows what damage running the engine without oil did if any. None of us could tell except to say it's probably as bad as a severe cold start. Just boundary lubrication.
Here's what you should do in the future to avoid any mistakes:
1. Never multi-task, ever. Focus on one task at a time. Start and completely finish one task before the other. Doing multiple things at once and trying to keep track of everything in your head causes mental gymnastics that will get you in trouble.
2. Keep a checklist. Either in paper or mentally and execute it at certain times. I execute my mental checklist right before the engine is started. Is all of the fluid in? Is everything under the car sealed and torqued? Does the drain plug have its washer? Is everything above the car sealed like dipstick in and oil cap tight? Start it up.
3. Do a sort of bootleg safety lockout with a piece of paper and tape. This is especially helpful if you're doing multiple things at once or if you're interrupted. For example if I have to stop an oil change middle of the way for whatever reason, I put a piece of paper saying "DO NOT START ENGINE" and tape it to the steering wheel before I do anything else. This way when I come back I know exactly where I left off. In your case if you had stuck two pieces of paper to the wheel (only removing each one when you finished that one), you would have spotted your mistake before you made it.
Just to get a little extra fluid out you would subject your transmission to that? I would think running a transmission dry for a few seconds is worse than leaving a little dirty fluid in. I can't even see how getting that extra fluid out makes sense for any change except the first on an extremely neglected transmission. If someone changes the fluid on their transmission regularly, each subsequent transmission the fluid wouldn't get dirty enough to warrant caring about a little left behind. In fact on a neglected transmission the left behind fluid would get cleaner with each drain and fill to the point where after the first it's pointless to care. You'd be stressing the transmission for no reason after the first.
As for the engine, who knows what damage running the engine without oil did if any. None of us could tell except to say it's probably as bad as a severe cold start. Just boundary lubrication.
Here's what you should do in the future to avoid any mistakes:
1. Never multi-task, ever. Focus on one task at a time. Start and completely finish one task before the other. Doing multiple things at once and trying to keep track of everything in your head causes mental gymnastics that will get you in trouble.
2. Keep a checklist. Either in paper or mentally and execute it at certain times. I execute my mental checklist right before the engine is started. Is all of the fluid in? Is everything under the car sealed and torqued? Does the drain plug have its washer? Is everything above the car sealed like dipstick in and oil cap tight? Start it up.
3. Do a sort of bootleg safety lockout with a piece of paper and tape. This is especially helpful if you're doing multiple things at once or if you're interrupted. For example if I have to stop an oil change middle of the way for whatever reason, I put a piece of paper saying "DO NOT START ENGINE" and tape it to the steering wheel before I do anything else. This way when I come back I know exactly where I left off. In your case if you had stuck two pieces of paper to the wheel (only removing each one when you finished that one), you would have spotted your mistake before you made it.
I don't know why people confess foul-ups, bloopers, and blunders on the site anyway. Maybe hoping someone will say it's ok to (insert mistake). I.E. Lots of people have made the mistake of using chocolate syrup instead of motor oil. It happens everyday. In fact, Hershey dark flavor is d1g2. Usually, people just get shamed into disappearing for a few weeks and coming back as the midnight rider or some new identity.
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IIRC that's the recommended procedure on the Taiwan Driver Test "Mechanical Knowledgee" multiple choice test paper, which is an unbelievable compendium of Utter Bollocks.
That makes it a BAD THING to do.
You have to learn a lot of bad habits if you want a Taiwanese (truck) drivers license.
That makes it a BAD THING to do.
You have to learn a lot of bad habits if you want a Taiwanese (truck) drivers license.
I Thank you all for constructive replies and answers here!
Generaly I do not multitask on cars either, but it seemed to me reasonable to do fluid changes at the same time;
In the process, I accidentally cranked the engine without oil inside, the first time in my driving career, promise
I normally refresh the transmission fluid every 30K and I do go thru the gears, less then 15 sec total, to drain additional 1/2qt of fluid; I know, I know, it may not be a right thing to do, but strangely I've never had a transmission problem with my old car; its combo transmission/engine is in a very good condition to this day, I bet will go on for another 50-60K easily
but again, ill listen and implement your critics as well!
Generaly I do not multitask on cars either, but it seemed to me reasonable to do fluid changes at the same time;
In the process, I accidentally cranked the engine without oil inside, the first time in my driving career, promise
I normally refresh the transmission fluid every 30K and I do go thru the gears, less then 15 sec total, to drain additional 1/2qt of fluid; I know, I know, it may not be a right thing to do, but strangely I've never had a transmission problem with my old car; its combo transmission/engine is in a very good condition to this day, I bet will go on for another 50-60K easily
but again, ill listen and implement your critics as well!
garageman402
$100 Site Donor 2024
Originally Posted By: miden851
I normally refresh the transmission fluid every 30K and I do go thru the gears, less then 15 sec total, to drain additional 1/2qt of fluid; I know, I know, it may not be a right thing to do, but strangely I've never had a transmission problem with my old car; its combo transmission/engine is in a very good condition to this day, I bet will go on for another 50-60K easily
but again, ill listen and implement your critics as well!
So you actually get an additional 1/2 quart out by going thru the gears with the engine running? Try an experiment next time, try running thru the gears with the engine not running and see if you still get the 1/2 quart. I don't see how a dry pump can force an additional 1/2 quart out. Maybe the valves you are moving manually are opening and allowing the extra fluid out, or letting air in, so fluid can flow out.
I normally refresh the transmission fluid every 30K and I do go thru the gears, less then 15 sec total, to drain additional 1/2qt of fluid; I know, I know, it may not be a right thing to do, but strangely I've never had a transmission problem with my old car; its combo transmission/engine is in a very good condition to this day, I bet will go on for another 50-60K easily
but again, ill listen and implement your critics as well!
So you actually get an additional 1/2 quart out by going thru the gears with the engine running? Try an experiment next time, try running thru the gears with the engine not running and see if you still get the 1/2 quart. I don't see how a dry pump can force an additional 1/2 quart out. Maybe the valves you are moving manually are opening and allowing the extra fluid out, or letting air in, so fluid can flow out.
Probably needs mentioning: don't run the engine/transmission without fluid in them.
Originally Posted By: miden851
I normally turn on the engine while fluid is draining out
Don't do that.
I normally turn on the engine while fluid is draining out
Don't do that.
My advice is this. Considering that you can't undo what you did, and you just ran the engine for a brief time, move forward but never forget your mistake. Most people do things like this when multitasking. Just do one thing and do it well. Any damage that comes up in the future is to be considered tuition to Oil Guy University. It'll very likely never happen again. And now, back to the show.
If you think what you did was bad, consider this: Pilots have landed large airliners without extending the landing gear.
Doctors have amputated the wrong leg and left scalpels inside patients.
If you're one of the ones being critical, remember - glass houses!
Doctors have amputated the wrong leg and left scalpels inside patients.
If you're one of the ones being critical, remember - glass houses!
OP, your engine is likely OK, but generally what you are doing is a bad practice. Consider how much more old fluid you are getting out (probably not much), vs the risk of damage to the trans by running it low/dry. You're maintaining the trans fluid to keep it happy and healthy, right? Seems odd that you would choose to run it without fluid while you are trying to keep it healthy. My opinion.
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