04 XC70 UOA - fried FF at 86.5k miles

[VeryNoisyPoet]

Last spring my dad and I bought a new used car for my mom. We got a great deal on a 2004 XC70 with only 81k miles.

I didn't see the Carfax, but my dad thought he remembered seeing something about a transmission service performed at around 60k miles. At the time we made the purchase, the ATF looked a light brown-red but didn't smell like much and the transmission seemed to shift fine.

But after a year and 6k miles, we started noticing a bit of shift flare and sloppy shifting under certain conditions. I checked the ATF again; same light brown-red color but a definite "toast" smell now present. The next weekend I did the first of three drain and fills using Valvoline Maxlife, catching this sample of the old fluid.

Whadya know? Fried factory fill, with no sign of service ever being done! Symptoms improved significantly with each D&F until it now shifts like new. Looks like we caught it in time, and in hindsight I should have changed the fluid as soon as we made the purchase, regardless of what any prior service records claimed.

 

[JC1]

Congrats. Some people chicken out and leave that fluid in for the life of the vehicle.

When are you going to do the next drain and fill.

 

[maxdustington]

I have always wished I had a UOA done of my factory ATF after I did a D&F after 195k kms. I can just live vicariously through you now.

EDIT: I did two D&Fs about 6 months apart I think. The first made a huge difference, the second negligible. It has been shifting better just recently though, 18 months later.

 

[VeryNoisyPoet]

Originally Posted By: JC1
Congrats. Some people chicken out and leave that fluid in for the life of the vehicle.

When are you going to do the next drain and fill.

I'm a firm believer that changing old fluid on a working transmission or one that just started to show mild problems can only help that transmission. If it dies soon after, it was probably going to die soon anyways. 1000 miles later it's shifting better than ever and fluid remains clear pink-red. If it was going to kick the bucket, it would have done so already, or at least showed signs of problems coming back.

Next drain + fill is maybe in a couple years and 15k miles. There is still about 20% of the old fluid left in there and the Maxlife will have some strong cleaning action, so I don't want to extend it too long.

 

[JustN89]

Geez. That's some wear. Good thing you got it out of there!

 

[VeryNoisyPoet]

Originally Posted By: maxdustington
I have always wished I had a UOA done of my factory ATF after I did a D&F after 195k kms. I can just live vicariously through you now.

EDIT: I did two D&Fs about 6 months apart I think. The first made a huge difference, the second negligible. It has been shifting better just recently though, 18 months later.

Glad things worked out for you. The first sample is interesting to see how beat up these "lifetime" or "long life" fluids get.

I suspect your slow improvements to shifting are from cleaning action of the new fluid. In my other thread about ATF analysis for the car in my sig, I talked about how I saw an immediate improvement for the worst of the symptoms when I did a triple D&F, then slow improvement over many weeks and months.

https://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php/topics/4765202/UOA_Maxlife_&_Dex_III_%7C_98#Post4765202

 

[VeryNoisyPoet]

Originally Posted By: JustN89
Geez. That's some wear. Good thing you got it out of there!


Indeed! Hopefully a lot of that junk is from wear-in, hence the massive amounts of lead.

 

[ARB1977]

For a second I thought engine oil, lol.

 

[zorobabel]

I don't know where you got that Maxlife ATF has a cleaning action, or that a transmission has deposits that need to be cleaned.
You did the right thing to change the ATF.

Originally Posted By: VeryNoisyPoet
There is still about 20% of the old fluid left in there and the Maxlife will have some strong cleaning action, so I don't want to extend it too long.

 

[VeryNoisyPoet]

Originally Posted By: zorobabel
I don't know where you got that Maxlife ATF has a cleaning action, or that a transmission has deposits that need to be cleaned.
You did the right thing to change the ATF.


Ok fine, any new fluid should have a cleaning effect. Marketing hype perhaps, but the Maxlife product info sheet claims it "reduces varnish formation". Not sure exactly how much each component contributed, but on the UOA from the car in my sig with a mix of Maxlife, Dex/Merc, and Lubegard red bottle showed 195 ppm Boron and 207 ppm Calcium, both of which are listed as likely part of detergent/dispersant additives.

As for source of deposits, heat and shear will eventually cause breakdown and oxidation of the ATF, byproducts of which can form solids and varnishes that can adhere to the internal parts of the transmission or catch in passages and valves. It takes a long time to develop, such as this fluid run far too long.

The transmission in my own car had harsh, delayed shifting that faded over thousands of miles after a fluid change. I disconnected the battery to reset the computer at the same time I did the change, and that had no effect on the symptoms. Only many weeks of driving across the country and back made the remainder of the issues vanish. I'd assume that the valves were slightly fouled and reluctant, which was eventually cleared by the fresh fluid suspending the contaminants.

 

[Chris B.]

I also have a 2004 XC70 and I have done a ton of reading on this car. The transmission is extremely picky on what ATF is in it. Factory factory ATF is made by Toyota and it T-4. Volvo dealers charge like $40/qt and Toyota charges like $4/qt but it is the EXACT same fluid. It should be changed every 30,000 miles using the Gibbons method. I dont know if Valvoline ATF is ok on these transmissions but I would change it out for the t-4 to be safe. Go over to www.volvoxc.com and read up on them. The gibbins method is also detailed on the forum on how to do it right. Make sure you use a full synthetic(Mobil 1 0w40 is great for this engine). Look up my UOA's and threads on my 2004. I have posted a ton of them over the years.

 

[VeryNoisyPoet]

The product info sheet for the Maxlife ATF lists it as replacement for JWS 3309 (Aisin Warner), T-4 (Toyota), and the official Volvo 1161540-8 fluid. All three of those are the same fluid with different branding. For any of those applications, there seems to be a lot of anecdotes and bickering about this, with some people talking like the world will end if you don't use the exact fluid sold at the dealer for its weight in gold, while plenty of other people have run Maxlife (or other non-dealer options) for years and report no problems.

If it were causing transmission failures in those or any of the dozens of other listed applications, I'd think there would be a huge storm brewing on this and other forums, and Valvoline would have pulled those recommendation real quick before they started bleeding money.

Maybe next time I'll try changing the fluid with the cooler lines as you mentioned. With the equipment and expertise I had this time, I went with the drain, fill, drive, repeat procedure.

Right now using M1 10w-30. Considering the 0w-40 for next change.

 

[maxdustington]

Originally Posted By: VeryNoisyPoet
I suspect your slow improvements to shifting are from cleaning action of the new fluid. In my other thread about ATF analysis for the car in my sig, I talked about how I saw an immediate improvement for the worst of the symptoms when I did a triple D&F, then slow improvement over many weeks and months.


I had never thought of that. I thought it had to do me driving around pinning it more often and replacing my battery last autumn.

 

[VeryNoisyPoet]

Originally Posted By: maxdustington

I had never thought of that. I thought it had to do me driving around pinning it more often and replacing my battery last autumn.


If it immediately got better after the battery replacement, that meant you cleared the computer and forced it to quickly relearn the fresh fluid AND your new driving style. More gradual improvement that doesn't correlate with the battery replacement would be cleaning action and eventual adaptation to clean fluid.