PQIA article on coolants/antifreezes, and colors

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I just saw over on the PQIA website, that they posted an article discussing the different colors of coolants, varying chemistry between them, etc.. based mainly on the high level of confusion that most callers exhibit regarding them.

Relatively basic, it does at least touch on some important points. It also includes a pretty new chart showing which brands use which colors/types. Even includes a term I have not seen before - SOAT. - - (edit) - I also see at least two things wrong with this chart, now that I've given it a closer look.

It also shows just how clueless most people are regarding car engine coolants and why they are all so different.

PQIA article - Antifreeze, what's the difference?
 
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Originally Posted By: SirTanon
I just saw over on the PQIA website, that they posted an article discussing the different colors of coolants, varying chemistry between them, etc.. based mainly on the high level of confusion that most callers exhibit regarding them.

Relatively basic, it does at least touch on some important points. It also includes a pretty new chart showing which brands use which colors/types. Even includes a term I have not seen before - SOAT. - - (edit) - I also see at least two things wrong with this chart, now that I've given it a closer look.

It also shows just how clueless most people are regarding car engine coolants and why they are all so different.

PQIA article - Antifreeze, what's the difference?


Here are 2 mistakes I see:
They are calling G-05 a HOAT when it's really a SHOAT.
Ford went from a SHOAT (GO-5) to an OAT (Dexcool) around 2012....my 2014 takes an OAT.
 
Good info, i try to follow the color/spec, however I have couple of gal. of Prestone in the garage and on the container it says:

"For ANY car"
"Works with ANY color antifreeze"
"Will NOT void warranty"
"ALL MAKES, ALL MODELS"

What's up with that? Just curious!
 
Just double checked ...
It say "Any car or light duty truck" ... and nothing has an asterisk (* or **) next to it.
It also says:
"150,000 miles or 5 years" but it had an asterisk next to it and I didn't read the details ...I
It is ethylene glycol based and that beautiful fluorescent yellow/green ...
grin.gif
 
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Originally Posted By: mrsilv04
Ford had some dark green coolant around 2009-2010-2011 or so.

That's for engines of Mazda origin. Mazda uses dark green IAT before, switched to PHOAT years ago (2009?) Without changing color.
 
First thing I looked at was the chart. FCA/Chrysler/Dodge, Ford/Ford Truck incorrect, not updated to most current model specs, OAT and DexCool respectively. Also latest Toyota tint(SLL pink) not listed in footnote. However, they did cover themselves by saying always refer to OM.

Also note they call Asian AF's POATs. I mention it because one member here (don't remember who) got upset because another member used the term POAT instead of PHOAT for Asian AFs. Same thing, phosphated OAT.

And I would consider G-05 HOAT to be in the same Long Life/Extended Life service interval as what 'they' distinguish as the Euro SOATs. G-05 is a low silicate LL OAT too.

I'm not sure what the difference is between what they call a SHOAT and a SOAT. I'm speculating it is a most current spec inhibitor difference. Iirc MB used to use/have a silicate packet AF in older models.

Lastly, I don't care for their explanation of AF color. Prefer to say color or tint an unreliable indicator of AF chemistry and type. Check owners manual for specific vehicle AF specs and type.
 
Originally Posted By: Sayjac
First thing I looked at was the chart. FCA/Chrysler/Dodge, Ford/Ford Truck incorrect, not updated to most current model specs, OAT and DexCool respectively. Also latest Toyota tint(SLL pink) not listed in footnote. However, they did cover themselves by saying always refer to OM.

Also note they call Asian AF's POATs. I mention it because one member here (don't remember who) got upset because another member used the term POAT instead of PHOAT for Asian AFs. Same thing, phosphated OAT.

And I would consider G-05 HOAT to be in the same Long Life/Extended Life service interval as what 'they' distinguish as the Euro SOATs. G-05 is a low silicate LL OAT too.

I'm not sure what the difference is between what they call a SHOAT and a SOAT. I'm speculating it is a most current spec inhibitor difference. Iirc MB used to use/have a silicate packet AF in older models.

Lastly, I don't care for their explanation of AF color. Prefer to say color or tint an unreliable indicator of AF chemistry and type. Check owners manual for specific vehicle AF specs and type.
My 04 Toyota Camry calls for HOAT. I use the Zerex Asian Vehicle Coolant.
 
Zerex Asian Formula (ZAF) is a P-HOAT (or P-OAT) or as noted Phosphated OAT. All mean the same. WM Valvoline Asian Vehicle with Zerex Tech is same as ZAF, only sold at WM.

In 05 (according to Pentofrost, some 04 may have come with pink SLL) Toyota switched from shorter service interval (~2yrs-30k miles) Toyota LL Red PHOAT, to longer service interval SLL pink PHOAT. Toyota says the pink SLL is backwards compatible with Red, however to get the longer service interval a complete flush to SLL must be done. Also as noted Toyota Red to Pink SLL is not shown in the PQIA chart.

I had Toyota Red as FF in 01 Tacoma, however I've been using Peak Global Lifteime OAT for 4+ years. Original radiator, working fine.
 
I am starting to believe that just about any coolant can be used in just about any late model vehicle as long as the system is thoroughly FLUSHED out beforehand...I say this because the Europeans don't like phosphates (and prefer silicates) because phosphates don't play well with Europe's hard water. The Asians don't like silicates because they are hard on gaskets but I don't think Asian gaskets are much different from European or American gaskets and silicates are used in those vehicles (SHOAT). Dexcool and Dexclones didn't play well with certain older gaskets because the 2-EHA was a plasticizer which softened those gaskets....The Dexcool OATs were also prone to causing sludge if the coolant ran low because they didn't do well when air was present....this is why Dexcool isn't ideal in a non-pressurized system (where the cap isn't screwed on).
Of course it's always preferred to use what the OE maker recommends but as I said...I don't think you'll have a problem by using say a PHOAT in a Ford that calls for Dexcool or even an older Ford that called for GO-5 just as long as you do a complete flush beforehand...I say this because I use Distilled water which eliminates the 'hardness' issue...As I said before, the only thing I wouldn't do is use a Dexcool in a system which isn't pressurized. This is just my opinion of course...I just don't see engines being so different from each other that special coolants are needed for each....
 
Quote:
....Of course it's always preferred to use what the OE maker recommends but as I said...I don't think you'll have a problem by using say a PHOAT in a Ford that calls for Dexcool or even an older Ford that called for GO-5 just as long as you do a complete flush beforehand...

Personally I wouldn't have a problem using a PHOAT in a system spec'd for DexCool or G-05. That said, most of the Extended Service interval Asian PHOATS come as a premix, and DexCool is easily found in many brands as a concentrate for a reasonable price. Pretty similar case for G-05.

Otoh, 'I' would not use DexCool in any system not spec'd for it now because of 2eha used as inhibitor. Best example for me, Ford could have easily backed spec'd it's newer car DexCool for all it's vehicles previously using G-05 and at least some those had pressurized tanks (I know 05 Explorer did as example). They chose not to. I suppose one could say that's it's to sell another Motorcraft AF type, Gold in the case of G-05. However, I'm thinking the gasket-oring compatibility (or incompatibility) of Dex with 2eha entered into their thought process. It might not be the case, but why chance using Dex especially now with all the readily available reasonably pricd aftermarket vehicle spec'd AF type choices with no 2eha. And there's always Peak Global Lifetime as an option, Long Life OAT no 2eha.
 
Originally Posted By: Sayjac
F
I'm not sure what the difference is between what they call a SHOAT and a SOAT. I'm speculating it is a most current spec inhibitor difference. Iirc MB used to use/have a silicate packet AF in older models.


I think they mean

SHOAT - older style hybrid, RA 16-18
SOAT - modern style Si-OAT, RA 8-9
 
Originally Posted By: Sayjac

Otoh, 'I' would not use DexCool in any system not spec'd for it now because of 2eha used as inhibitor. Best example for me, Ford could have easily backed spec'd it's newer car DexCool for all it's vehicles previously using G-05 and at least some those had pressurized tanks (I know 05 Explorer did as example). They chose not to. I suppose one could say that's it's to sell another Motorcraft AF type, Gold in the case of G-05. However, I'm thinking the gasket-oring compatibility (or incompatibility) of Dex with 2eha entered into their thought process. It might not be the case, but why chance using Dex especially now with all the readily available reasonably pricd aftermarket vehicle spec'd AF type choices with no 2eha. And there's always Peak Global Lifetime as an option, Long Life OAT no 2eha.


Here's what I found about the changes Ford made to their engines before using a DexCool type coolant and why they did not back-spec older engines. The link to the article is now dead, but I had quoted the relevant passages.

All engines are not engineered the same and do not contain the same materials, particularly, gasket material. Here is a SAE article that talks about the changes in engineering and materials that were made in new engines, changes that were made to existing lines, and lines that did not get changes due to being phased out. Ford did not back-spec any engines to their new 2-EHA containing coolant for these reasons.

http://articles.sae.org/8242/

Originally Posted By: SAE

Unlike silicates and phosphates, which deplete as they go to work coating the cooling system, OAT-alone formulas have very long service life. But OATs work very slowly, perhaps taking over 5000 miles to form a protective oxide surface. So they are unable to provide the fast re-protection of cavitation-pockmarked surfaces in water pumps.

If a cooling system is prone to cavitation and the vehicle is used in the kind of load service that is conducive to it, the pockmarking increases and can corrode, affecting water pump service life. As a result, Ford has continued with the yellow S-HOAT on the older 4.6-L and 5.4-L V8s and will not change, as these engines are planned for phase-out.

One of the organic acids, 2-EHA, is a plasticizer, softening some synthetic rubbers and plastics, particularly silicone gaskets and the Nylon 66 used for gasket carriers and radiator tanks. This was another reason for the continued use of the S-HOAT in the 4.6-L and 5.4-L V8s. All OAT-equipped engines have silicone-free gaskets and validated Nylon 66 radiator tanks.

Systems with OAT antifreeze are more sensitive to low coolant levels, because the OAT provides best protection when in full contact with coolant passages. The issue is acute with cast-iron engine architectures, but one also exists with aluminum.
For the OAT systems, the sensors combine with improved powertrain computer algorithms for detecting overheating and deploying the limited engine performance strategy Ford has been using to prevent damage to engines if coolant level drops significantly.

Additionally, Ford upgraded cooling system seals, gaskets, and clamps, and it evaluated (reworking where necessary) the assembly line processes to ensure a full fill. Further, the antifreeze is mixed 50-50 with de-ionized water for consistent new vehicle protection across all product lines.


Filling a car with a 2-EHA containing coolant without knowing if the design and materials are validated for it is a fools errand.

Ed
 
Originally Posted By: edhackett

Filling a car with a 2-EHA containing coolant ---is a fools errand.

Ed


FTFY
smile.gif


I'm a very naughty boy. Years ago, I replaced Ford G05 and GM Dexcool with Asian Phosphated Long Life coolant. Now that I've learned 2-eha ruins even silicone gaskets, I'm happy. My own Japanese Green system is currently on Rotella Ultra ELC (molybdate inhibitor pack) and any subsequent future coolant services will be with Ultra ELC- almost totally regardless of the system materials.
27.gif
 
Originally Posted By: SirTanon

Relatively basic, it does at least touch on some important points. It also includes a pretty new chart showing which brands use which colors/types. Even includes a term I have not seen before - SOAT. - - (edit) - I also see at least two things wrong with this chart, now that I've given it a closer look.

Zerex, which is BASF's only presence in North America calls silicated HOATs like G-05(the old Mercedes fill and from that Trav has said here in the past, John Deere's coolant of choice), G-48(the current Mercedes fill, and the preferred coolant for BMW/Mini, Volvo and Tesla) and G-40(which is VW's current fill AKA G-12++) as Si-OATs.

It's good intentions on PQIA's part, especially with the proliferation of AMAM coolants - even though the exalted Peak Global Lifetime here has proven itself to be as "universal" of a coolant there is with its choice of OAT inhibitor, Prestone is engaging in some misleading marketing about their coolant.

On an unrelated note, I'm this is what Valvoline is selling as Zerex Green here - if they are claiming it as a 10/100 coolant. I'm guessing it's a SiPOAT that's a hybrid of three chemistries. http://www.glysantin.de/en/products/g64.html
 
Originally Posted By: edhackett
...Filling a car with a 2-EHA containing coolant without knowing if the design and materials are validated for it is a fools errand.

Ed

Fwiw, I agree with that statement and basically what I concluded about why Ford did not back spec DexCool for previous G05 models. Without re-quoting SAE article you posted, it's a good one. The Dex critical 'low coolant level' an interesting too. Recently on discussion about DexCool in older GM models with angle neck fill holes and non pressurized tank(s), ime not being able to fill completely rad/system. Confirms my thoughts.

It's too bad can't get to/see SAE articles now. The oft linked one about FCA/Chrysler switching to no 2eha OAT also a good one, now gone too.
 
Ford is going with POAT on F150s starting with Jan 1, 2019 builds. Currently they use OAT. There is a TSB that the OAT can goo up and block the heater core, and the fix is really expensive, and part of the fix is switching to the yellow POAT.
 
Originally Posted by wallyuwl
Ford is going with POAT on F150s starting with Jan 1, 2019 builds. Currently they use OAT. There is a TSB that the OAT can goo up and block the heater core, and the fix is really expensive, and part of the fix is switching to the yellow POAT.


That is interesting, Ford joining the Japanese with their P-OATs

I wonder what their logic is behind that.
 
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