True Synthetic
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Does it matter? The final formulation dictates performance.
Buy on specs, not perceived benefit of one base stock over another.
Buy on specs, not perceived benefit of one base stock over another.
Synthetic is a performance term.
You guys did not answer OP’s question. While Group III (hydrocracked, highly refined) oils are lumped into the synthetic category, the only true synthetics are Group IV (PAO) and Group V (ester) oils but these will very likely have a conventional component to carry the additives as syns don’t do that job well. Your task is to research which oils are what: headstart...Redline and Motul make Group V oils.
I hear people complaining about some synthetics are actually not. PP is made from natural gas, but it is called synthetic. In any product, go back far enough to the source components, and it is not man made materials in anything. We don't know how to create any material, only change what is already created. Technically nothing is synthetic.
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Originally Posted By: rooflessVW
Does it matter? The final formulation dictates performance.
Buy on specs, not perceived benefit of one base stock over another.
Exactly...
For instance, Castrol GTX 10W-30 has a NOACK of 10% (better or equal to many "syns").... not "synthetic". If you don't need a synthetic-only spec, this will serve your purpose if looking for that viscosity.
Does it matter? The final formulation dictates performance.
Buy on specs, not perceived benefit of one base stock over another.
Exactly...
For instance, Castrol GTX 10W-30 has a NOACK of 10% (better or equal to many "syns").... not "synthetic". If you don't need a synthetic-only spec, this will serve your purpose if looking for that viscosity.
The Germans differentiate between PAO based synthetic and hydrocracked mineral oil.
I would consider PAO based actual synthetic and hydrocracked mineral super refined dino. One is fabricated and one is highly refine natural ingredients.
From what I understand the original M1 was mostly PAO. A VOA of that would likely crash the board.
I would consider PAO based actual synthetic and hydrocracked mineral super refined dino. One is fabricated and one is highly refine natural ingredients.
From what I understand the original M1 was mostly PAO. A VOA of that would likely crash the board.
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Originally Posted By: maxdustington
The Germans differentiate between PAO based synthetic and hydrocracked mineral oil.
I would consider PAO based actual synthetic and hydrocracked mineral super refined dino. One is fabricated and one is highly refine natural ingredients.
From what I understand the original M1 was mostly PAO. A VOA of that would likely crash the board.
Why? A VOA doesn't give any idea as to base oil makeup
The Germans differentiate between PAO based synthetic and hydrocracked mineral oil.
I would consider PAO based actual synthetic and hydrocracked mineral super refined dino. One is fabricated and one is highly refine natural ingredients.
From what I understand the original M1 was mostly PAO. A VOA of that would likely crash the board.
Why? A VOA doesn't give any idea as to base oil makeup
Synthetic chemicals are defined by the final processing steps, not the origin of matter from billions of years ago.
In chemistry, a synthetic molecule is made by reacting two or more smaller molecules, elements, or radicals to create a new larger and more complex molecule.
In lubricants, synthetic is a marketing term implying higher performance through the exclusive use Group III, Group IV and/or selected Group V base oils. Group III base oils do not technically meet the chemistry definition of synthetic, however, since 90+% of its molecules were created new by man by altering or rearranging mineral oil molecules, many feel the term synthetic does applies. Others apply it by place more emphasis on the base oil performance properties than on how it was made.
There are some motor oils that claim to use only "true" synthetic base oils, but there is no reason to believe these oils will perform better due to these base oils, as the additive system plays a greater role in the finished oil performance. You can be sure, however, that they will be more expensive.
All definitions of "synthetic" lubricants are based on the base oil content only, exclusive of additives or small amounts of diluent oil.
While this may be academically interesting, none of it really matters when selecting a motor oil. You only need to be concerned with the specifications and approvals the oil has, and the reputation of the oil manufacturer making such claims.
In chemistry, a synthetic molecule is made by reacting two or more smaller molecules, elements, or radicals to create a new larger and more complex molecule.
In lubricants, synthetic is a marketing term implying higher performance through the exclusive use Group III, Group IV and/or selected Group V base oils. Group III base oils do not technically meet the chemistry definition of synthetic, however, since 90+% of its molecules were created new by man by altering or rearranging mineral oil molecules, many feel the term synthetic does applies. Others apply it by place more emphasis on the base oil performance properties than on how it was made.
There are some motor oils that claim to use only "true" synthetic base oils, but there is no reason to believe these oils will perform better due to these base oils, as the additive system plays a greater role in the finished oil performance. You can be sure, however, that they will be more expensive.
All definitions of "synthetic" lubricants are based on the base oil content only, exclusive of additives or small amounts of diluent oil.
While this may be academically interesting, none of it really matters when selecting a motor oil. You only need to be concerned with the specifications and approvals the oil has, and the reputation of the oil manufacturer making such claims.
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Originally Posted By: Tom NJ
Synthetic chemicals are defined by the final processing steps, not the origin of matter from billions of years ago.
In chemistry, a synthetic molecule is made by reacting two or more smaller molecules, elements, or radicals to create a new larger and more complex molecule.
In lubricants, synthetic is a marketing term implying higher performance through the exclusive use Group III, Group IV and/or selected Group V base oils. Group III base oils do not technically meet the chemistry definition of synthetic, however, since 90+% of its molecules were created new by man by altering or rearranging mineral oil molecules, many feel the term synthetic does applies. Others apply it by place more emphasis on the base oil performance properties than on how it was made.
There are some motor oils that claim to use only "true" synthetic base oils, but there is no reason to believe these oils will perform better due to these base oils, as the additive system plays a greater role in the finished oil performance. You can be sure, however, that they will be more expensive.
All definitions of "synthetic" lubricants are based on the base oil content only, exclusive of additives or small amounts of diluent oil.
While this may be academically interesting, none of it really matters when selecting a motor oil. You only need to be concerned with the specifications and approvals the oil has, and the reputation of the oil manufacturer making such claims.
Very well stated Tom
Synthetic chemicals are defined by the final processing steps, not the origin of matter from billions of years ago.
In chemistry, a synthetic molecule is made by reacting two or more smaller molecules, elements, or radicals to create a new larger and more complex molecule.
In lubricants, synthetic is a marketing term implying higher performance through the exclusive use Group III, Group IV and/or selected Group V base oils. Group III base oils do not technically meet the chemistry definition of synthetic, however, since 90+% of its molecules were created new by man by altering or rearranging mineral oil molecules, many feel the term synthetic does applies. Others apply it by place more emphasis on the base oil performance properties than on how it was made.
There are some motor oils that claim to use only "true" synthetic base oils, but there is no reason to believe these oils will perform better due to these base oils, as the additive system plays a greater role in the finished oil performance. You can be sure, however, that they will be more expensive.
All definitions of "synthetic" lubricants are based on the base oil content only, exclusive of additives or small amounts of diluent oil.
While this may be academically interesting, none of it really matters when selecting a motor oil. You only need to be concerned with the specifications and approvals the oil has, and the reputation of the oil manufacturer making such claims.
Very well stated Tom
Group 3's do not out perform group 4/5. Group 3's WITH a bunch of additives can make it look similar on a stat sheet. But until they develop a self healing vii, people in an oil form should spend more time and energy availing themselves with the benefits of true synthetics. And they (the oil industry) have made the determination that gf-6b will have to be group 4/5 because they can't get there with group 3. WHAT DOES THAT TELL YOU? lol
The market interests here are way to strong for people to get accurate info.
The market interests here are way to strong for people to get accurate info.
That is the funny thing, the gov't garbage has actually brought back true synthetics, lol. We left true quality back with the group 3 ruling, but we are headed back to those days because of the need to protect metal with super thin low additive oil.
Originally Posted By: pscholte
You guys did not answer OP’s question. While Group III (hydrocracked, highly refined) oils are lumped into the synthetic category, the only true synthetics are Group IV (PAO) and Group V (ester) oils but these will very likely have a conventional component to carry the additives as syns don’t do that job well. Your task is to research which oils are what: headstart...Redline and Motul make Group V oils.
Redline as a whole no longer blends a primarily group V PCMO any longer. The majority is a blend with about 10% of the base an ester.
You guys did not answer OP’s question. While Group III (hydrocracked, highly refined) oils are lumped into the synthetic category, the only true synthetics are Group IV (PAO) and Group V (ester) oils but these will very likely have a conventional component to carry the additives as syns don’t do that job well. Your task is to research which oils are what: headstart...Redline and Motul make Group V oils.
Redline as a whole no longer blends a primarily group V PCMO any longer. The majority is a blend with about 10% of the base an ester.
Originally Posted By: Tom NJ
Synthetic chemicals are defined by the final processing steps, not the origin of matter from billions of years ago.
In chemistry, a synthetic molecule is made by reacting two or more smaller molecules, elements, or radicals to create a new larger and more complex molecule.
In lubricants, synthetic is a marketing term implying higher performance through the exclusive use Group III, Group IV and/or selected Group V base oils. Group III base oils do not technically meet the chemistry definition of synthetic, however, since 90+% of its molecules were created new by man by altering or rearranging mineral oil molecules, many feel the term synthetic does applies. Others apply it by place more emphasis on the base oil performance properties than on how it was made.
There are some motor oils that claim to use only "true" synthetic base oils, but there is no reason to believe these oils will perform better due to these base oils, as the additive system plays a greater role in the finished oil performance. You can be sure, however, that they will be more expensive.
All definitions of "synthetic" lubricants are based on the base oil content only, exclusive of additives or small amounts of diluent oil.
While this may be academically interesting, none of it really matters when selecting a motor oil. You only need to be concerned with the specifications and approvals the oil has, and the reputation of the oil manufacturer making such claims.
This is the answer right here.
Synthetic chemicals are defined by the final processing steps, not the origin of matter from billions of years ago.
In chemistry, a synthetic molecule is made by reacting two or more smaller molecules, elements, or radicals to create a new larger and more complex molecule.
In lubricants, synthetic is a marketing term implying higher performance through the exclusive use Group III, Group IV and/or selected Group V base oils. Group III base oils do not technically meet the chemistry definition of synthetic, however, since 90+% of its molecules were created new by man by altering or rearranging mineral oil molecules, many feel the term synthetic does applies. Others apply it by place more emphasis on the base oil performance properties than on how it was made.
There are some motor oils that claim to use only "true" synthetic base oils, but there is no reason to believe these oils will perform better due to these base oils, as the additive system plays a greater role in the finished oil performance. You can be sure, however, that they will be more expensive.
All definitions of "synthetic" lubricants are based on the base oil content only, exclusive of additives or small amounts of diluent oil.
While this may be academically interesting, none of it really matters when selecting a motor oil. You only need to be concerned with the specifications and approvals the oil has, and the reputation of the oil manufacturer making such claims.
This is the answer right here.
Originally Posted By: pscholte
BITOG needs a class in how to discern an OP’s real question and then answer it. OP wants to know what is a synthetic according to currently accepted criteria, not some esoteric peripheral opinion. Sheesh.
Actually we don’t. Thanks though.
BITOG needs a class in how to discern an OP’s real question and then answer it. OP wants to know what is a synthetic according to currently accepted criteria, not some esoteric peripheral opinion. Sheesh.
Actually we don’t. Thanks though.
Originally Posted By: Tom NJ
Synthetic chemicals are defined by the final processing steps, not the origin of matter from billions of years ago.
In chemistry, a synthetic molecule is made by reacting two or more smaller molecules, elements, or radicals to create a new larger and more complex molecule.
In lubricants, synthetic is a marketing term implying higher performance through the exclusive use Group III, Group IV and/or selected Group V base oils. Group III base oils do not technically meet the chemistry definition of synthetic, however, since 90+% of its molecules were created new by man by altering or rearranging mineral oil molecules, many feel the term synthetic does applies. Others apply it by place more emphasis on the base oil performance properties than on how it was made.
There are some motor oils that claim to use only "true" synthetic base oils, but there is no reason to believe these oils will perform better due to these base oils, as the additive system plays a greater role in the finished oil performance. You can be sure, however, that they will be more expensive.
All definitions of "synthetic" lubricants are based on the base oil content only, exclusive of additives or small amounts of diluent oil.
While this may be academically interesting, none of it really matters when selecting a motor oil. You only need to be concerned with the specifications and approvals the oil has, and the reputation of the oil manufacturer making such claims.
Post of the month award goes to you, Tom.
Synthetic chemicals are defined by the final processing steps, not the origin of matter from billions of years ago.
In chemistry, a synthetic molecule is made by reacting two or more smaller molecules, elements, or radicals to create a new larger and more complex molecule.
In lubricants, synthetic is a marketing term implying higher performance through the exclusive use Group III, Group IV and/or selected Group V base oils. Group III base oils do not technically meet the chemistry definition of synthetic, however, since 90+% of its molecules were created new by man by altering or rearranging mineral oil molecules, many feel the term synthetic does applies. Others apply it by place more emphasis on the base oil performance properties than on how it was made.
There are some motor oils that claim to use only "true" synthetic base oils, but there is no reason to believe these oils will perform better due to these base oils, as the additive system plays a greater role in the finished oil performance. You can be sure, however, that they will be more expensive.
All definitions of "synthetic" lubricants are based on the base oil content only, exclusive of additives or small amounts of diluent oil.
While this may be academically interesting, none of it really matters when selecting a motor oil. You only need to be concerned with the specifications and approvals the oil has, and the reputation of the oil manufacturer making such claims.
Post of the month award goes to you, Tom.
Originally Posted By: pscholte
Redline and Motul make Group V oils.
They certainly do, but only a minority of their products fit that description. Small but important caveat.
Also, isn't it true that the performance of the finished lube is what matters in the final analysis? Why waste time feeling around in the dark about base oils when you can reference the actual approvals and specs of the finished lube?
Redline and Motul make Group V oils.
They certainly do, but only a minority of their products fit that description. Small but important caveat.
Also, isn't it true that the performance of the finished lube is what matters in the final analysis? Why waste time feeling around in the dark about base oils when you can reference the actual approvals and specs of the finished lube?
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