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Straight 30 Group II or 5W40 Group 3 #4760322
05/17/18 08:08 PM
05/17/18 08:08 PM
Joined: Dec 2013
Posts: 391
Kuala Lumpur ,Malaysia
alcyon Offline OP
alcyon  Offline OP
Joined: Dec 2013
Posts: 391
Kuala Lumpur ,Malaysia
Ok I have asked this question before within another thread, but no one answered it.
Here is the engine in question
https://jalopnik.com/toyotas-first-twin-turbo-straight-six-is-stranger-than-1824260905
Inline 6 cylinder 1980s oil cooled turbo engine.

I only have 2 choices from a cost stand point.
Either Pennzoil SAE 30 ..or Shell Helix Ultra 5W-40.
Temps never go below 22 C.

Fire away !


Kyosho Optima Mid SWB, LWB and Lazer ZX
1991 Proton Saga 1.3S SOLD
1989 Toyota Soarer GT Twin Turbo L
Re: Straight 30 Group II or 5W40 Group 3 [Re: alcyon] #4760341
05/17/18 08:29 PM
05/17/18 08:29 PM
Joined: Oct 2014
Posts: 12,028
Idaho
CT8 Offline
CT8  Offline
Joined: Oct 2014
Posts: 12,028
Idaho
either oil would be good.


2015 Ford F150 2.7
2018 Ford F350 6.2
Re: Straight 30 Group II or 5W40 Group 3 [Re: alcyon] #4760354
05/17/18 08:43 PM
05/17/18 08:43 PM
Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 14,354
Canada
addyguy Offline
addyguy  Offline
Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 14,354
Canada
Shell Helix all the way, an excellent product.


2010 Kia Soul 2U - 2.0L I-4, auto; 133k miles.
M1 EP 10W-30; OEM Kia filter.
Re: Straight 30 Group II or 5W40 Group 3 [Re: alcyon] #4760376
05/17/18 08:51 PM
05/17/18 08:51 PM
Joined: Dec 2011
Posts: 4,882
North Carolina
rooflessVW Offline
rooflessVW  Offline
Joined: Dec 2011
Posts: 4,882
North Carolina
Shell Helix, hands down.


"Zed's dead baby, Zed's dead."
Re: Straight 30 Group II or 5W40 Group 3 [Re: alcyon] #4760382
05/17/18 08:59 PM
05/17/18 08:59 PM
Joined: Mar 2016
Posts: 1,384
toronto
PeterPolyol Offline
PeterPolyol  Offline
Joined: Mar 2016
Posts: 1,384
toronto
SAE30 of course cool


"Nobody else has responded to you. Nobody has defended your position. Perhaps that's a clue"
Re: Straight 30 Group II or 5W40 Group 3 [Re: alcyon] #4760386
05/17/18 09:01 PM
05/17/18 09:01 PM
Joined: Dec 2013
Posts: 391
Kuala Lumpur ,Malaysia
alcyon Offline OP
alcyon  Offline OP
Joined: Dec 2013
Posts: 391
Kuala Lumpur ,Malaysia
Perhaps I wasnt specific enough. I ask because of all this talk about VII being bad.
So the specifics are :
Will a group II without VII fare better in this oil cooled turbo, and able to withstand the heat in the turbo, or will a group III which is basically a better base stock, but loaded with VII withstand the heat better ?


Kyosho Optima Mid SWB, LWB and Lazer ZX
1991 Proton Saga 1.3S SOLD
1989 Toyota Soarer GT Twin Turbo L
Re: Straight 30 Group II or 5W40 Group 3 [Re: alcyon] #4760397
05/17/18 09:10 PM
05/17/18 09:10 PM
Joined: Dec 2011
Posts: 4,882
North Carolina
rooflessVW Offline
rooflessVW  Offline
Joined: Dec 2011
Posts: 4,882
North Carolina
Shell Helix Ultra 5W-40 is a top-quality A3/B4 synthetic oil with a ton of approvals.

It's what I'd use without question. Better base stock, and designed with high-performance turbocharged engines in mind.


"Zed's dead baby, Zed's dead."
Re: Straight 30 Group II or 5W40 Group 3 [Re: alcyon] #4760402
05/17/18 09:14 PM
05/17/18 09:14 PM
Joined: Mar 2016
Posts: 1,384
toronto
PeterPolyol Offline
PeterPolyol  Offline
Joined: Mar 2016
Posts: 1,384
toronto
I'd say yes, based on the fact that whatever viscosity base oils the Helix is built with, is lower than the SAE 30 monograde. The KV in the Helix would be supported by VIIs in the multi-grade (it could honestly be any multigrade with any hydrocarbon base), whereas the SAE30 has none. So when the oil is coking in the bearing section of your turbo with the SAE 30, you'll have a naturally higher viscosity oil devoid of VIIs taking the hit rather than a 5W oil, 'hc synthetic' or not. Also with a KV100 qualifying for SAE30, you'll enjoy lower drag at normal operating temp. Basically, higher VI isn't at all going to help you with what you're asking for.

Just my opinion with 'work shown'

BTW the 1G has always interested me; square bore and stroke, I6, small reciprocating mass... it must be incredibly smooth. Nice engine


"Nobody else has responded to you. Nobody has defended your position. Perhaps that's a clue"
Re: Straight 30 Group II or 5W40 Group 3 [Re: PeterPolyol] #4760422
05/17/18 09:32 PM
05/17/18 09:32 PM
Joined: Dec 2013
Posts: 391
Kuala Lumpur ,Malaysia
alcyon Offline OP
alcyon  Offline OP
Joined: Dec 2013
Posts: 391
Kuala Lumpur ,Malaysia
Originally Posted By: PeterPolyol
I'd say yes, based on the fact that whatever viscosity base oils the Helix is built with, is lower than the SAE 30 monograde. The KV in the Helix would be supported by VIIs in the multi-grade (it could honestly be any multigrade with any hydrocarbon base), whereas the SAE30 has none. So when the oil is coking in the bearing section of your turbo with the SAE 30, you'll have a naturally higher viscosity oil devoid of VIIs taking the hit rather than a 5W oil, 'hc synthetic' or not. Also with a KV100 qualifying for SAE30, you'll enjoy lower drag at normal operating temp. Basically, higher VI isn't at all going to help you with what you're asking for.

Just my opinion with 'work shown'

BTW the 1G has always interested me; square bore and stroke, I6, small reciprocating mass... it must be incredibly smooth. Nice engine


Yes indeed it is smooth even at 600rpm when the autobox is in D and complete stop at traffic lights.

Last edited by alcyon; 05/17/18 09:55 PM.

Kyosho Optima Mid SWB, LWB and Lazer ZX
1991 Proton Saga 1.3S SOLD
1989 Toyota Soarer GT Twin Turbo L
Re: Straight 30 Group II or 5W40 Group 3 [Re: alcyon] #4760430
05/17/18 09:48 PM
05/17/18 09:48 PM
Joined: Mar 2017
Posts: 5,745
...
PimTac Offline
PimTac  Offline
Joined: Mar 2017
Posts: 5,745
...
In KL, I would assume the Shell Helix is readily available. Is Pennzoil available as well? I ask because of issues of counterfeit products that the Helix would be preferable.


2017 Mazda CX-5 GT.

Valvoline Modern Engine 0w20
Mobil 1 EP 108A
Re: Straight 30 Group II or 5W40 Group 3 [Re: PimTac] #4760432
05/17/18 09:50 PM
05/17/18 09:50 PM
Joined: Dec 2013
Posts: 391
Kuala Lumpur ,Malaysia
alcyon Offline OP
alcyon  Offline OP
Joined: Dec 2013
Posts: 391
Kuala Lumpur ,Malaysia
Originally Posted By: PimTac
In KL, I would assume the Shell Helix is readily available. Is Pennzoil available as well? I ask because of issues of counterfeit products that the Helix would be preferable.

Authentic Pennzoil oils made in USA are available at ACE hardware .The locally packaged Pennzoils are suspect though, and I will never buy those. Price point, the SAE30 not on sale (never is) is only slightly cheaper than the Shell helix Ultra on sale.

Last edited by alcyon; 05/17/18 09:57 PM.

Kyosho Optima Mid SWB, LWB and Lazer ZX
1991 Proton Saga 1.3S SOLD
1989 Toyota Soarer GT Twin Turbo L
Re: Straight 30 Group II or 5W40 Group 3 [Re: alcyon] #4760443
05/17/18 10:05 PM
05/17/18 10:05 PM
Joined: Mar 2017
Posts: 5,745
...
PimTac Offline
PimTac  Offline
Joined: Mar 2017
Posts: 5,745
...
Originally Posted By: alcyon
Originally Posted By: PimTac
In KL, I would assume the Shell Helix is readily available. Is Pennzoil available as well? I ask because of issues of counterfeit products that the Helix would be preferable.

Authentic Pennzoil oils made in USA are available at ACE hardware .The locally packaged Pennzoils are suspect though, and I will never buy those. Price point, the SAE30 not on sale (never is) is only slightly cheaper than the Shell helix Ultra on sale.




Thanks for that. During my time in the region I saw stuff that made me wonder if it was real or counterfeit. Im sure youve seen it too. As long as the outlet is reliable it should be good. Compare the specs and certifications of both to make a good decision.


2017 Mazda CX-5 GT.

Valvoline Modern Engine 0w20
Mobil 1 EP 108A
Re: Straight 30 Group II or 5W40 Group 3 [Re: PimTac] #4760451
05/17/18 10:18 PM
05/17/18 10:18 PM
Joined: Dec 2013
Posts: 391
Kuala Lumpur ,Malaysia
alcyon Offline OP
alcyon  Offline OP
Joined: Dec 2013
Posts: 391
Kuala Lumpur ,Malaysia
Originally Posted By: PimTac
Originally Posted By: alcyon
Originally Posted By: PimTac
In KL, I would assume the Shell Helix is readily available. Is Pennzoil available as well? I ask because of issues of counterfeit products that the Helix would be preferable.

Authentic Pennzoil oils made in USA are available at ACE hardware .The locally packaged Pennzoils are suspect though, and I will never buy those. Price point, the SAE30 not on sale (never is) is only slightly cheaper than the Shell helix Ultra on sale.



Thanks for that. During my time in the region I saw stuff that made me wonder if it was real or counterfeit. Im sure youve seen it too. As long as the outlet is reliable it should be good. Compare the specs and certifications of both to make a good decision.


oooh yeah, third world problems !

https://paultan.org/2018/03/22/klang-valley-workshops-caught-selling-fake-engine-oil/

also this is how the local pennzoil looks like, http://pennzoil.my/product-category/passenger-car-motor-oil/
[censored] ugly packaging if you ask me. I suspect while its made under license, the formulation isnt the same.



Last edited by alcyon; 05/17/18 10:27 PM.

Kyosho Optima Mid SWB, LWB and Lazer ZX
1991 Proton Saga 1.3S SOLD
1989 Toyota Soarer GT Twin Turbo L
Re: Straight 30 Group II or 5W40 Group 3 [Re: alcyon] #4760510
05/18/18 01:23 AM
05/18/18 01:23 AM
Joined: Feb 2015
Posts: 2,219
Slovenia EU
Kamele0N Offline
Kamele0N  Offline
Joined: Feb 2015
Posts: 2,219
Slovenia EU
SHU 5w40 thumbsup


2008 Toyota Yaris 1ND-TV 1.4 D4-D Elf FullTech FE 5w30
1997 Toyota Landcruiser KZJ95 3.0 TD Shell Rimula R6M 10w40
Re: Straight 30 Group II or 5W40 Group 3 [Re: alcyon] #4760710
05/18/18 08:40 AM
05/18/18 08:40 AM
Joined: Sep 2015
Posts: 5,951
Kalifornia Kollective
BrocLuno Offline
BrocLuno  Offline
Joined: Sep 2015
Posts: 5,951
Kalifornia Kollective
Nothing wrong with the SAE 30. SAE 30's were/are used in tons of diesel engines with turbo's glowing cherry red for long pulls on long grades. It'll hold up just fine.

Coking is usually a turbo drain issue. Usually associated with turbos set at angels so that the bearing housing does not drain correctly at rest ... If the drain is good (straight down) there will be no coking with any reputable oil.


Formerly in marine engineering. In an earlier life I owned my own petroleum tank truck, and hauled for the majors and independent's.
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