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#4760322 - 05/17/18 08:08 PM Straight 30 Group II or 5W40 Group 3
alcyon Offline


Registered: 12/10/13
Posts: 374
Loc: Kuala Lumpur ,Malaysia
Ok I have asked this question before within another thread, but no one answered it.
Here is the engine in question
https://jalopnik.com/toyotas-first-twin-turbo-straight-six-is-stranger-than-1824260905
Inline 6 cylinder 1980s oil cooled turbo engine.

I only have 2 choices from a cost stand point.
Either Pennzoil SAE 30 ..or Shell Helix Ultra 5W-40.
Temps never go below 22 C.

Fire away !
_________________________
Kyosho Optima Mid SWB, LWB and Lazer ZX
1991 Proton Saga 1.3S SOLD
1989 Toyota Soarer GT Twin Turbo L

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#4760341 - 05/17/18 08:29 PM Re: Straight 30 Group II or 5W40 Group 3 [Re: alcyon]
CT8 Offline


Registered: 10/09/14
Posts: 10730
Loc: Idaho
either oil would be good.
_________________________
Artificial intelligence is no match for natural stupidity, we shall prevail

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#4760354 - 05/17/18 08:43 PM Re: Straight 30 Group II or 5W40 Group 3 [Re: alcyon]
addyguy Offline


Registered: 09/08/05
Posts: 14268
Loc: Canada
Shell Helix all the way, an excellent product.
_________________________
2010 Kia Soul 2U - 2.0L I-4, auto; 124k miles.
M1 EP 10W-30; OEM Kia filter.

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#4760376 - 05/17/18 08:51 PM Re: Straight 30 Group II or 5W40 Group 3 [Re: alcyon]
rooflessVW Offline


Registered: 12/24/11
Posts: 3825
Loc: North Carolina
Shell Helix, hands down.
_________________________
"Zed's dead baby, Zed's dead."

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#4760382 - 05/17/18 08:59 PM Re: Straight 30 Group II or 5W40 Group 3 [Re: alcyon]
PeterPolyol Offline


Registered: 03/06/16
Posts: 1274
Loc: toronto
SAE30 of course cool

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#4760386 - 05/17/18 09:01 PM Re: Straight 30 Group II or 5W40 Group 3 [Re: alcyon]
alcyon Offline


Registered: 12/10/13
Posts: 374
Loc: Kuala Lumpur ,Malaysia
Perhaps I wasnt specific enough. I ask because of all this talk about VII being bad.
So the specifics are :
Will a group II without VII fare better in this oil cooled turbo, and able to withstand the heat in the turbo, or will a group III which is basically a better base stock, but loaded with VII withstand the heat better ?
_________________________
Kyosho Optima Mid SWB, LWB and Lazer ZX
1991 Proton Saga 1.3S SOLD
1989 Toyota Soarer GT Twin Turbo L

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#4760397 - 05/17/18 09:10 PM Re: Straight 30 Group II or 5W40 Group 3 [Re: alcyon]
rooflessVW Offline


Registered: 12/24/11
Posts: 3825
Loc: North Carolina
Shell Helix Ultra 5W-40 is a top-quality A3/B4 synthetic oil with a ton of approvals.

It's what I'd use without question. Better base stock, and designed with high-performance turbocharged engines in mind.
_________________________
"Zed's dead baby, Zed's dead."

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#4760402 - 05/17/18 09:14 PM Re: Straight 30 Group II or 5W40 Group 3 [Re: alcyon]
PeterPolyol Offline


Registered: 03/06/16
Posts: 1274
Loc: toronto
I'd say yes, based on the fact that whatever viscosity base oils the Helix is built with, is lower than the SAE 30 monograde. The KV in the Helix would be supported by VIIs in the multi-grade (it could honestly be any multigrade with any hydrocarbon base), whereas the SAE30 has none. So when the oil is coking in the bearing section of your turbo with the SAE 30, you'll have a naturally higher viscosity oil devoid of VIIs taking the hit rather than a 5W oil, 'hc synthetic' or not. Also with a KV100 qualifying for SAE30, you'll enjoy lower drag at normal operating temp. Basically, higher VI isn't at all going to help you with what you're asking for.

Just my opinion with 'work shown'

BTW the 1G has always interested me; square bore and stroke, I6, small reciprocating mass... it must be incredibly smooth. Nice engine

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#4760422 - 05/17/18 09:32 PM Re: Straight 30 Group II or 5W40 Group 3 [Re: PeterPolyol]
alcyon Offline


Registered: 12/10/13
Posts: 374
Loc: Kuala Lumpur ,Malaysia
Originally Posted By: PeterPolyol
I'd say yes, based on the fact that whatever viscosity base oils the Helix is built with, is lower than the SAE 30 monograde. The KV in the Helix would be supported by VIIs in the multi-grade (it could honestly be any multigrade with any hydrocarbon base), whereas the SAE30 has none. So when the oil is coking in the bearing section of your turbo with the SAE 30, you'll have a naturally higher viscosity oil devoid of VIIs taking the hit rather than a 5W oil, 'hc synthetic' or not. Also with a KV100 qualifying for SAE30, you'll enjoy lower drag at normal operating temp. Basically, higher VI isn't at all going to help you with what you're asking for.

Just my opinion with 'work shown'

BTW the 1G has always interested me; square bore and stroke, I6, small reciprocating mass... it must be incredibly smooth. Nice engine


Yes indeed it is smooth even at 600rpm when the autobox is in D and complete stop at traffic lights.


Edited by alcyon (05/17/18 09:55 PM)
_________________________
Kyosho Optima Mid SWB, LWB and Lazer ZX
1991 Proton Saga 1.3S SOLD
1989 Toyota Soarer GT Twin Turbo L

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#4760430 - 05/17/18 09:48 PM Re: Straight 30 Group II or 5W40 Group 3 [Re: alcyon]
PimTac Offline


Registered: 03/04/17
Posts: 3851
Loc: Soviet State of Washington
In KL, I would assume the Shell Helix is readily available. Is Pennzoil available as well? I ask because of issues of counterfeit products that the Helix would be preferable.
_________________________
2017 Mazda CX-5 Grand Touring

Valvoline Advanced Synthetic 0w20
Mobil 1 M108A EP filter


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#4760432 - 05/17/18 09:50 PM Re: Straight 30 Group II or 5W40 Group 3 [Re: PimTac]
alcyon Offline


Registered: 12/10/13
Posts: 374
Loc: Kuala Lumpur ,Malaysia
Originally Posted By: PimTac
In KL, I would assume the Shell Helix is readily available. Is Pennzoil available as well? I ask because of issues of counterfeit products that the Helix would be preferable.

Authentic Pennzoil oils made in USA are available at ACE hardware .The locally packaged Pennzoils are suspect though, and I will never buy those. Price point, the SAE30 not on sale (never is) is only slightly cheaper than the Shell helix Ultra on sale.


Edited by alcyon (05/17/18 09:57 PM)
_________________________
Kyosho Optima Mid SWB, LWB and Lazer ZX
1991 Proton Saga 1.3S SOLD
1989 Toyota Soarer GT Twin Turbo L

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#4760443 - 05/17/18 10:05 PM Re: Straight 30 Group II or 5W40 Group 3 [Re: alcyon]
PimTac Offline


Registered: 03/04/17
Posts: 3851
Loc: Soviet State of Washington
Originally Posted By: alcyon
Originally Posted By: PimTac
In KL, I would assume the Shell Helix is readily available. Is Pennzoil available as well? I ask because of issues of counterfeit products that the Helix would be preferable.

Authentic Pennzoil oils made in USA are available at ACE hardware .The locally packaged Pennzoils are suspect though, and I will never buy those. Price point, the SAE30 not on sale (never is) is only slightly cheaper than the Shell helix Ultra on sale.




Thanks for that. During my time in the region I saw stuff that made me wonder if it was real or counterfeit. Iím sure youíve seen it too. As long as the outlet is reliable it should be good. Compare the specs and certifications of both to make a good decision.
_________________________
2017 Mazda CX-5 Grand Touring

Valvoline Advanced Synthetic 0w20
Mobil 1 M108A EP filter


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#4760451 - 05/17/18 10:18 PM Re: Straight 30 Group II or 5W40 Group 3 [Re: PimTac]
alcyon Offline


Registered: 12/10/13
Posts: 374
Loc: Kuala Lumpur ,Malaysia
Originally Posted By: PimTac
Originally Posted By: alcyon
Originally Posted By: PimTac
In KL, I would assume the Shell Helix is readily available. Is Pennzoil available as well? I ask because of issues of counterfeit products that the Helix would be preferable.

Authentic Pennzoil oils made in USA are available at ACE hardware .The locally packaged Pennzoils are suspect though, and I will never buy those. Price point, the SAE30 not on sale (never is) is only slightly cheaper than the Shell helix Ultra on sale.



Thanks for that. During my time in the region I saw stuff that made me wonder if it was real or counterfeit. Iím sure youíve seen it too. As long as the outlet is reliable it should be good. Compare the specs and certifications of both to make a good decision.


oooh yeah, third world problems !

https://paultan.org/2018/03/22/klang-valley-workshops-caught-selling-fake-engine-oil/

also this is how the local pennzoil looks like, http://pennzoil.my/product-category/passenger-car-motor-oil/
[censored] ugly packaging if you ask me. I suspect while its made under license, the formulation isnt the same.




Edited by alcyon (05/17/18 10:27 PM)
_________________________
Kyosho Optima Mid SWB, LWB and Lazer ZX
1991 Proton Saga 1.3S SOLD
1989 Toyota Soarer GT Twin Turbo L

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#4760510 - 05/18/18 01:23 AM Re: Straight 30 Group II or 5W40 Group 3 [Re: alcyon]
Kamele0N Offline


Registered: 02/09/15
Posts: 1999
Loc: Slovenia
SHU 5w40 thumbsup
_________________________
2011 Hyundai i30 1.4 CVVT Shell Helix Ultra 5w40
1997 Toyota Landcruiser KZJ95 3.0 TD various 10w40

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#4760710 - 05/18/18 08:40 AM Re: Straight 30 Group II or 5W40 Group 3 [Re: alcyon]
BrocLuno Offline


Registered: 09/06/15
Posts: 5394
Loc: Kalifornia Kollective
Nothing wrong with the SAE 30. SAE 30's were/are used in tons of diesel engines with turbo's glowing cherry red for long pulls on long grades. It'll hold up just fine.

Coking is usually a turbo drain issue. Usually associated with turbos set at angels so that the bearing housing does not drain correctly at rest ... If the drain is good (straight down) there will be no coking with any reputable oil.
_________________________
Formerly in marine engineering. In an earlier life I owned my own petroleum tank truck, and hauled for the majors and independent's.

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