Dexos1 Gen2 and Timing Chain Wear Question

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Originally Posted By: GravelRoad
Does Dexox1 Gen2 suppose to lower timing chain wear? Or just for LSPI?
Both.

GM has developed four new engine tests for this updated specification:

New General Motors Oxidation & Deposit Test (GMOD) verifies the improved oxidation and deposit control characteristics.
New Stochastic Pre-ignition Test verifies the added protection for turbocharged engines and pre-ignition concerns.
New Turbocharger Deposit Test verifies the added protection for turbocharged engines and minimizes deposit formation, which ensures optimal performance during engine life.
New Aeration Test (bubble control) ensures the air bubbles in the oil dissipate quickly to improve oil performance.
New Timing Chain wear (stretch) test.

It could be that oils were already good at timing chain and LSPI issues, but the dexos1 Gen2 tests prove something to us.
 
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Originally Posted By: oil_film_movies
Originally Posted By: GravelRoad
Does Dexox1 Gen2 suppose to lower timing chain wear? Or just for LSPI?
Both.

GM has developed four new engine tests for this updated specification:

New General Motors Oxidation & Deposit Test (GMOD) verifies the improved oxidation and deposit control characteristics.
New Stochastic Pre-ignition Test verifies the added protection for turbocharged engines and pre-ignition concerns.
New Turbocharger Deposit Test verifies the added protection for turbocharged engines and minimizes deposit formation, which ensures optimal performance during engine life.
New Aeration Test (bubble control) ensures the air bubbles in the oil dissipate quickly to improve oil performance.
New Timing Chain wear (stretch) test.

It could be that oils were already good at timing chain and LSPI issues, but the dexos1 Gen2 tests prove something to us.


That answers my question. Thank you.
 
Originally Posted By: oil_film_movies
Originally Posted By: GravelRoad
Does Dexox1 Gen2 suppose to lower timing chain wear? Or just for LSPI?
Both.

GM has developed four new engine tests for this updated specification:

New General Motors Oxidation & Deposit Test (GMOD) verifies the improved oxidation and deposit control characteristics.
New Stochastic Pre-ignition Test verifies the added protection for turbocharged engines and pre-ignition concerns.
New Turbocharger Deposit Test verifies the added protection for turbocharged engines and minimizes deposit formation, which ensures optimal performance during engine life.
New Aeration Test (bubble control) ensures the air bubbles in the oil dissipate quickly to improve oil performance.
New Timing Chain wear (stretch) test.

It could be that oils were already good at timing chain and LSPI issues, but the dexos1 Gen2 tests prove something to us.


^ this, recognize.
 
Originally Posted By: tig1
I have never had timing chain wear as for as I know. Some engines over 300K.


I have read that letting the oil level get very low (or not doing changes at recommended OCIs) will induce timing chain stretch or failure in some makes.


Can't EVER imagine that happening to a BITOGer, though.
grin.gif
 
Originally Posted By: Carbuff
I have read that letting the oil level get very low (or not doing changes at recommended OCIs) will induce timing chain stretch or failure in some makes.
DI and turbo+DI soot has been blamed the most. Its a very small grit that makes it past the oil filters, like around 1 micron or less in size, and filters only get out particles greater than 20 microns in general:
"Chain wear is caused by GDI soot, a carbonaceous contaminant unique to T/GDI engines that causes accelerated timing chain wear. It has been proven that advanced lubricant additive technology can have a positive impact on both LSPI and chain wear."---Lubrizol statement, and https://phys.org/news/2016-07-gasoline-direct-green-choice.html and https://link.springer.com/chapter/10.1007%2F978-981-10-7185-0_6
 
Originally Posted By: nap
Could timing belts become fashionable again?



Could a timing belt hold up to the same conditions? There are also the guides and sprocket gears.
 
Originally Posted By: oil_film_movies
Originally Posted By: Carbuff
I have read that letting the oil level get very low (or not doing changes at recommended OCIs) will induce timing chain stretch or failure in some makes.
DI and turbo+DI soot has been blamed the most. Its a very small grit that makes it past the oil filters, like around 1 micron or less in size, and filters only get out particles greater than 20 microns in general:
"Chain wear is caused by GDI soot, a carbonaceous contaminant unique to T/GDI engines that causes accelerated timing chain wear. It has been proven that advanced lubricant additive technology can have a positive impact on both LSPI and chain wear."---Lubrizol statement, and https://phys.org/news/2016-07-gasoline-direct-green-choice.html and https://link.springer.com/chapter/10.1007%2F978-981-10-7185-0_6


Thanks again oil_film_movies! Your always helpful.
thumbsup2.gif
 
I know you know that oil filters go well below 20 microns... Fram Ultra has like a 80 percent efficiency at like 5 microns. And Wix regular filters are 50 percent at 6 microns.

Though in this case like you mentioned it is particles smaller than those mentioned above that cause timing chain issues.

Which is really good information to learn by the way. You add a lot of very good information on here.
 
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Originally Posted by PimTac
Originally Posted by nap
Could timing belts become fashionable again?



Could a timing belt hold up to the same conditions? There are also the guides and sprocket gears.



My turbo, direct injection engine has an engine-oil-bathed timing belt. I wonder how bad the soot is for that?

1.0 liter Ford EcoBoost.
 
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Originally Posted by E365
...My turbo, direct injection engine has an engine-oil-bathed timing belt. I wonder how bad the soot is for that? ...
Even without soot, is it expected to survive as long as a dry timing belt?
 
Did these new "test specification" developed by GM resulted in any significant oil formulation changes (e.g. Lower calcium if that's considered significant, etc.) or nothing major ... did the tests expose any significant oil weakness resulting in better oil for gdi? Any proof or long term test data comparing new and improved oil (if any) vs. the old (pre d1g2) oil?
%0 hype or %100 hype or somewhere inbetween?
 
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Originally Posted by OilUzer
Did these new "test specification" developed by GM resulted in any significant oil formulation changes (e.g. Lower calcium if that's considered significant, etc.) or nothing major ... did the tests expose any significant oil weakness resulting in better oil for gdi? Any proof or long term test data comparing new and improved oil (if any) vs. the old (pre d1g2) oil?
%0 hype or %100 hype or somewhere inbetween?



It's nothing more than GM asking blenders to cover thier behind due to poor engineering design.
 
It's been a while since I researched dexos1 Gen 2 spec., but I recall it using some existing tests with more stringent limits than API SN and it having some additional unique tests like LSPI and chain wear.

Ok, so now I looked up some information and found an Afton article. A different additive packages and treat rates are used for the various combinations of specifications: http://www.aftonchemical.com/Generic/API-SN-Plus-FAQ#
Here is the HiTEC 11180 additive package, which is the best of that group: http://www.aftonchemical.com/SBU/EngineOilAdditives/PassengerCar/HiTEC-11180
 
Originally Posted by dave1251
Originally Posted by OilUzer
Did these new "test specification" developed by GM resulted in any significant oil formulation changes (e.g. Lower calcium if that's considered significant, etc.) or nothing major ... did the tests expose any significant oil weakness resulting in better oil for gdi? Any proof or long term test data comparing new and improved oil (if any) vs. the old (pre d1g2) oil?
%0 hype or %100 hype or somewhere inbetween?



It's nothing more than GM asking blenders to cover thier behind due to poor engineering design.


lol my original thought was GM should spend more time developing test specification for their cars
grin2.gif


Our only GDI car (hopefully the last if I can help or if possible based on where technology is going) specifies 5Wx20, 5Wx30 or 10Wx30 and 6750 miles OCI and no mention of using synthetic oil... I don't think convevtional/dino come with d1g2! idk
if this was a major issue they would update the OM or send a letter something like "using d1g2 (or synthetic oil) is recommended ..."
I've talked with a very knowledgeable oil person and seen posts from experts on this site regarding timing cain issues ... A lot of cars still using dino (no d1g2 iirc) ... a lot of people at Blackstone use dino based on their website. Nothing against d1g2. I am using it. I think most 5Wx30 synthetics these days are at least d1g2 anyways ... but I think there is some hype element regarding d1g2 not %100 hype but maybe 70% +/-
shocked2.gif
 
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