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Dexos1 Gen2 and Timing Chain Wear Question #4759704
05/17/18 09:25 AM
05/17/18 09:25 AM
Joined: May 2015
Posts: 177
Virginia
GravelRoad Offline OP
GravelRoad  Offline OP
Joined: May 2015
Posts: 177
Virginia
Does Dexox1 Gen2 suppose to lower timing chain wear? Or just for LSPI?


2016 Subaru Outback Premium 2.5. PP 5w30 oem filter
2018 Hyundai Kona 1.6T. Lifetime dealer free oil/filter change
Re: Dexos1 Gen2 and Timing Chain Wear Question [Re: GravelRoad] #4759720
05/17/18 09:36 AM
05/17/18 09:36 AM
Joined: Jun 2016
Posts: 3,566
MN
oil_film_movies Offline
oil_film_movies  Offline
Joined: Jun 2016
Posts: 3,566
MN
Originally Posted By: GravelRoad
Does Dexox1 Gen2 suppose to lower timing chain wear? Or just for LSPI?
Both.

GM has developed four new engine tests for this updated specification:

New General Motors Oxidation & Deposit Test (GMOD) verifies the improved oxidation and deposit control characteristics.
New Stochastic Pre-ignition Test verifies the added protection for turbocharged engines and pre-ignition concerns.
New Turbocharger Deposit Test verifies the added protection for turbocharged engines and minimizes deposit formation, which ensures optimal performance during engine life.
New Aeration Test (bubble control) ensures the air bubbles in the oil dissipate quickly to improve oil performance.
New Timing Chain wear (stretch) test.

It could be that oils were already good at timing chain and LSPI issues, but the dexos1 Gen2 tests prove something to us.

Last edited by oil_film_movies; 05/17/18 09:38 AM.
Re: Dexos1 Gen2 and Timing Chain Wear Question [Re: oil_film_movies] #4759793
05/17/18 10:49 AM
05/17/18 10:49 AM
Joined: May 2015
Posts: 177
Virginia
GravelRoad Offline OP
GravelRoad  Offline OP
Joined: May 2015
Posts: 177
Virginia
Originally Posted By: oil_film_movies
Originally Posted By: GravelRoad
Does Dexox1 Gen2 suppose to lower timing chain wear? Or just for LSPI?
Both.

GM has developed four new engine tests for this updated specification:

New General Motors Oxidation & Deposit Test (GMOD) verifies the improved oxidation and deposit control characteristics.
New Stochastic Pre-ignition Test verifies the added protection for turbocharged engines and pre-ignition concerns.
New Turbocharger Deposit Test verifies the added protection for turbocharged engines and minimizes deposit formation, which ensures optimal performance during engine life.
New Aeration Test (bubble control) ensures the air bubbles in the oil dissipate quickly to improve oil performance.
New Timing Chain wear (stretch) test.

It could be that oils were already good at timing chain and LSPI issues, but the dexos1 Gen2 tests prove something to us.


That answers my question. Thank you.


2016 Subaru Outback Premium 2.5. PP 5w30 oem filter
2018 Hyundai Kona 1.6T. Lifetime dealer free oil/filter change
Re: Dexos1 Gen2 and Timing Chain Wear Question [Re: oil_film_movies] #4759825
05/17/18 11:26 AM
05/17/18 11:26 AM
Joined: Nov 2017
Posts: 312
HondaBroMike Offline
HondaBroMike  Offline
Joined: Nov 2017
Posts: 312
Originally Posted By: oil_film_movies
Originally Posted By: GravelRoad
Does Dexox1 Gen2 suppose to lower timing chain wear? Or just for LSPI?
Both.

GM has developed four new engine tests for this updated specification:

New General Motors Oxidation & Deposit Test (GMOD) verifies the improved oxidation and deposit control characteristics.
New Stochastic Pre-ignition Test verifies the added protection for turbocharged engines and pre-ignition concerns.
New Turbocharger Deposit Test verifies the added protection for turbocharged engines and minimizes deposit formation, which ensures optimal performance during engine life.
New Aeration Test (bubble control) ensures the air bubbles in the oil dissipate quickly to improve oil performance.
New Timing Chain wear (stretch) test.

It could be that oils were already good at timing chain and LSPI issues, but the dexos1 Gen2 tests prove something to us.


^ this, recognize.



Re: Dexos1 Gen2 and Timing Chain Wear Question [Re: GravelRoad] #4760175
05/17/18 04:36 PM
05/17/18 04:36 PM
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 14,046
Illinois
tig1 Offline
tig1  Offline
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 14,046
Illinois
I have never had timing chain wear as for as I know. Some engines over 300K.


2007 Ford Fusion 236,000 miles
M1 0-20 EP
2017 Ford Fusion 62K
M1 0-20 EP
10,000 mile OCIs on both engines
M1 ATF and Valvoline LV
M1 10-30 in all OPE
MC filters

Re: Dexos1 Gen2 and Timing Chain Wear Question [Re: tig1] #4760195
05/17/18 04:55 PM
05/17/18 04:55 PM
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 153
Lost in the Garden State
Carbuff Offline
Carbuff  Offline
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 153
Lost in the Garden State
Originally Posted By: tig1
I have never had timing chain wear as for as I know. Some engines over 300K.


I have read that letting the oil level get very low (or not doing changes at recommended OCIs) will induce timing chain stretch or failure in some makes.


Can't EVER imagine that happening to a BITOGer, though. grin


Atwell Haines
NJ
Re: Dexos1 Gen2 and Timing Chain Wear Question [Re: Carbuff] #4760216
05/17/18 05:20 PM
05/17/18 05:20 PM
Joined: Jun 2016
Posts: 3,566
MN
oil_film_movies Offline
oil_film_movies  Offline
Joined: Jun 2016
Posts: 3,566
MN
Originally Posted By: Carbuff
I have read that letting the oil level get very low (or not doing changes at recommended OCIs) will induce timing chain stretch or failure in some makes.
DI and turbo+DI soot has been blamed the most. Its a very small grit that makes it past the oil filters, like around 1 micron or less in size, and filters only get out particles greater than 20 microns in general:
"Chain wear is caused by GDI soot, a carbonaceous contaminant unique to T/GDI engines that causes accelerated timing chain wear. It has been proven that advanced lubricant additive technology can have a positive impact on both LSPI and chain wear."---Lubrizol statement, and https://phys.org/news/2016-07-gasoline-direct-green-choice.html and https://link.springer.com/chapter/10.1007%2F978-981-10-7185-0_6

Re: Dexos1 Gen2 and Timing Chain Wear Question [Re: GravelRoad] #4760224
05/17/18 05:30 PM
05/17/18 05:30 PM
Joined: Apr 2018
Posts: 619
Canada
nap Offline
nap  Offline
Joined: Apr 2018
Posts: 619
Canada
Could timing belts become fashionable again?

Re: Dexos1 Gen2 and Timing Chain Wear Question [Re: GravelRoad] #4760251
05/17/18 06:04 PM
05/17/18 06:04 PM
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 5,912
New Braunfels
Bryanccfshr Offline
Bryanccfshr  Offline
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 5,912
New Braunfels
Keep intervals to 5kmiles andmget the soot out.


2018 Trd Pro 4Runner
2018 Tacoma off-road

Dealer 0w20 to M1 0w40 FS -it depends
Re: Dexos1 Gen2 and Timing Chain Wear Question [Re: nap] #4760269
05/17/18 06:22 PM
05/17/18 06:22 PM
Joined: Mar 2017
Posts: 7,014
...
PimTac Offline
PimTac  Offline
Joined: Mar 2017
Posts: 7,014
...
Originally Posted By: nap
Could timing belts become fashionable again?



Could a timing belt hold up to the same conditions? There are also the guides and sprocket gears.


Cannot see signatures any longer so it doesn’t matter.
Re: Dexos1 Gen2 and Timing Chain Wear Question [Re: oil_film_movies] #4760872
05/18/18 10:01 AM
05/18/18 10:01 AM
Joined: May 2015
Posts: 177
Virginia
GravelRoad Offline OP
GravelRoad  Offline OP
Joined: May 2015
Posts: 177
Virginia
Originally Posted By: oil_film_movies
Originally Posted By: Carbuff
I have read that letting the oil level get very low (or not doing changes at recommended OCIs) will induce timing chain stretch or failure in some makes.
DI and turbo+DI soot has been blamed the most. Its a very small grit that makes it past the oil filters, like around 1 micron or less in size, and filters only get out particles greater than 20 microns in general:
"Chain wear is caused by GDI soot, a carbonaceous contaminant unique to T/GDI engines that causes accelerated timing chain wear. It has been proven that advanced lubricant additive technology can have a positive impact on both LSPI and chain wear."---Lubrizol statement, and https://phys.org/news/2016-07-gasoline-direct-green-choice.html and https://link.springer.com/chapter/10.1007%2F978-981-10-7185-0_6


Thanks again oil_film_movies! Your always helpful. thumbsup


2016 Subaru Outback Premium 2.5. PP 5w30 oem filter
2018 Hyundai Kona 1.6T. Lifetime dealer free oil/filter change
Re: Dexos1 Gen2 and Timing Chain Wear Question [Re: GravelRoad] #4911096
10/31/18 03:06 PM
10/31/18 03:06 PM
Joined: Sep 2018
Posts: 314
San antonio
Ablebody Offline
Ablebody  Offline
Joined: Sep 2018
Posts: 314
San antonio
I'm with the go thicker crowd in this case. 0w40 would be a fine year round use for that truck or a thick hm w30 in my opinion.

Re: Dexos1 Gen2 and Timing Chain Wear Question [Re: Bryanccfshr] #4941112
12/01/18 09:56 PM
12/01/18 09:56 PM
Joined: Aug 2018
Posts: 119
Texas, United states
Jmoney7269 Offline
Jmoney7269  Offline
Joined: Aug 2018
Posts: 119
Texas, United states
Originally Posted by Bryanccfshr
Keep intervals to 5kmiles andmget the soot out.

Or just delete the egr........ lol
All the cool kids are doin it......


Good bbq ain't cheap and cheap bbq ain't good!
Re: Dexos1 Gen2 and Timing Chain Wear Question [Re: oil_film_movies] #4941118
12/01/18 10:03 PM
12/01/18 10:03 PM
Joined: Mar 2015
Posts: 5,606
Virginia
bbhero Offline
bbhero  Offline
Joined: Mar 2015
Posts: 5,606
Virginia
I know you know that oil filters go well below 20 microns... Fram Ultra has like a 80 percent efficiency at like 5 microns. And Wix regular filters are 50 percent at 6 microns.

Though in this case like you mentioned it is particles smaller than those mentioned above that cause timing chain issues.

Which is really good information to learn by the way. You add a lot of very good information on here.

Last edited by bbhero; 12/01/18 10:03 PM.

Nissan Altima 3.5 Coupe
Mobil Super 5w30 Wix 57356
"Treat your family like your friends and treat your friends like your family."
Re: Dexos1 Gen2 and Timing Chain Wear Question [Re: PimTac] #4941124
12/01/18 10:10 PM
12/01/18 10:10 PM
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 583
USA
E365 Offline
E365  Offline
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 583
USA
Originally Posted by PimTac
Originally Posted by nap
Could timing belts become fashionable again?



Could a timing belt hold up to the same conditions? There are also the guides and sprocket gears.



My turbo, direct injection engine has an engine-oil-bathed timing belt. I wonder how bad the soot is for that?

1.0 liter Ford EcoBoost.

Last edited by E365; 12/01/18 10:10 PM.

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