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#4758527 - 05/16/18 08:29 AM Extended OCI and warranty
PWMDMD Offline


Registered: 04/22/18
Posts: 67
Loc: MA
Thoughts on a car under warranty and I want to run Amsoil SS 0W-20 and a Fram Ultra filter at extended OCI. Idea is I would get a UOA at the time the MM wanted the oil changed and as long as the UOA comes back in spec stay the course.

Thoughts/opinions please....
_________________________
Current: 2018 Honda Pilot Touring (Amsoil SS 0W-20 and Fram ULTRA XG7317) and 2014 Mazda5 (Valvoline Full Synthetic High Mileage with MaxLife 0W-20 and Fram ULTRA XG3614)

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#4758533 - 05/16/18 08:37 AM Re: Extended OCI and warranty [Re: PWMDMD]
JustN89 Offline


Registered: 06/27/17
Posts: 512
Loc: DFW
If you value your warranty, why risk it? The warranty could potentially save you thousands, which to me might not be worth the risk taken in order to save a few bucks.

That said, if you get denied warranty coverage and decide to fight them over it, they would have to prove that the extended OCI caused the failure. The way I see it, that would be pretty difficult to do unless it's obvious, such as sludge build-up.

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#4758534 - 05/16/18 08:38 AM Re: Extended OCI and warranty [Re: PWMDMD]
Char Baby Offline


Registered: 05/25/05
Posts: 10183
Loc: ROCHESTER, NY
I wanted to do similar using different synthetic oils(more mainstream oil) and I was told right here at BITOG to NOT stray away from the owner's manual/MFG's recommendation for OCI's during the warranty period.

Sure, you could have all of the documentation and UOA's in the world but(BUT), should you have a warranty issue, be prepared for a fight. It's a case of choosing your battles!
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"Retired"
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'15 Nissan Altima 2.5 SV
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#4758537 - 05/16/18 08:41 AM Re: Extended OCI and warranty [Re: PWMDMD]
Swifty Offline


Registered: 10/12/11
Posts: 89
Loc: Nor Cal
I'm assuming your talking about the 2018 pilot in your signature the MM on that vehicle is going to get you about 8-10k if it is like any other Honda. I'm not sure what your looking to extend your changes to but it is always a proceed with caution thought when dealing with a new vehicle under warranty. If you go outside what the MFG recommends they can deny if there is an issue, of course they have to prove it was oil related and all that stuff blah, blah and it could be a pain in the butt...who wants that headache. It's a Honda, chances are you will never have an issue extending your interval but "you" have to decide if it is worth while under warranty.
_________________________
2013 Civic SI Sedan Amsoil 5/30 ASL Fram Ultra 83k miles

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2003 Toyota Highlander M1 10/30HM Fram Ultra Filter (wife's) 167k miles...retired

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#4758547 - 05/16/18 08:51 AM Re: Extended OCI and warranty [Re: PWMDMD]
Sayjac Offline


Registered: 10/13/08
Posts: 12401
Loc: The Old North State
Under warranty if you choose to extend the oci/fci beyond the OM MM recommendation, you assume the risk (however small) should something catastrophic happen to the engine. All UOA's in the world unlikely to help you in that event.

Now that you're fully informed, if you choose to go ahead, your call. Out of warranty, another matter.

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#4758550 - 05/16/18 08:53 AM Re: Extended OCI and warranty [Re: PWMDMD]
khittner Offline


Registered: 07/13/12
Posts: 345
Loc: Michigan
I'm not sure what you're trying to achieve; from your tag line, it doesn't appear that you keep a car long enough to matter what oil or filter you put into it.


Edited by khittner (05/16/18 08:54 AM)

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#4758554 - 05/16/18 08:56 AM Re: Extended OCI and warranty [Re: JustN89]
klt1986 Offline


Registered: 04/08/09
Posts: 395
Loc: Southern VA
Originally Posted By: JustN89
If you value your warranty, why risk it? The warranty could potentially save you thousands, which to me might not be worth the risk taken in order to save a few bucks.

That said, if you get denied warranty coverage and decide to fight them over it, they would have to prove that the extended OCI caused the failure. The way I see it, that would be pretty difficult to do unless it's obvious, such as sludge build-up.


I think you could be in for a heck of a fight if something were to go wrong with the engine. Automakers employ a lot of lawyers and have much deeper pockets than the average citizen. If it ever went to court, your legal team would likely be required to prove your extended oil changes did not cause the warranty issue....assuming your problem was some type of engine failure. This could be expensive for you, in fact very expensive. IMO, new vehicles are too expensive to worry about saving a few $$$ extending your oil changes. FWIW, our Honda CR-V uses a maintenance minder and it always gets down to 15% oil life between 9-10k miles. It has done this since we bought it new in 2008.


Edited by klt1986 (05/16/18 08:57 AM)
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#4758561 - 05/16/18 09:05 AM Re: Extended OCI and warranty [Re: klt1986]
JustN89 Offline


Registered: 06/27/17
Posts: 512
Loc: DFW
Originally Posted By: klt1986
Originally Posted By: JustN89
If you value your warranty, why risk it? The warranty could potentially save you thousands, which to me might not be worth the risk taken in order to save a few bucks.

That said, if you get denied warranty coverage and decide to fight them over it, they would have to prove that the extended OCI caused the failure. The way I see it, that would be pretty difficult to do unless it's obvious, such as sludge build-up.


I think you could be in for a heck of a fight if something were to go wrong with the engine. Automakers employ a lot of lawyers and have much deeper pockets than the average citizen. If it ever went to court, your legal team would likely be required to prove your extended oil changes did not cause the warranty issue....assuming your problem was some type of engine failure. This could be expensive for you, in fact very expensive. IMO, new vehicles are too expensive to worry about saving a few $$$ extending your oil changes. FWIW, our Honda CR-V uses a maintenance minder and it always gets down to 15% oil life between 9-10k miles. It has done this since we bought it new in 2008.

This just isn't the case. The burden of proof is on the company providing the warranty, not on the consumer. They would have to use their vast legal resources to prove that the extended OCIs caused the failure, which isn't as easily done as they would like to make you believe.



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#4758562 - 05/16/18 09:06 AM Re: Extended OCI and warranty [Re: PWMDMD]
Artem Offline


Registered: 10/30/10
Posts: 5227
Loc: Florida
Based on some of the responses thus far, you'd think that doing extended OCIs is EXTREMELY DANGERIOUS and you have to assume all risk and expenses should something catastrophic happen to the engine during a 10-15k mile run on a synthetic oil GARANTEED by the manufacturer to be good for 20k miles... hmmmmm. Something doesn't add up here.

The way I see if, we have MORE THEN ENOUGH data on this site to suggest that, the OP will be TOTALLY SAFE to run an oil of his choosing for 2x the mantienance schedule without even a hint of any LUBRICATION RELATED failure if the UOA backed it up, showing that the oil is in good shape during oil change. What's the problem??

With today's 36-60k mile warranties, he'll be out of warranty and on his own in what, 3-4 oil changes? We all know that engine can last past the warranty period without even changing the factory fill, so I don't see what the fuss is about. If the lab report shows the oil is fine after putting on 2, 3, 5, or 10,000 MORE MILES then what the maintenance reminder suggest, then the OP should have NOTHING to worry about and he'll be past the warranty period with flying colors and a clean engine in no time at all.

Just my $0.02

I say you go for it, OP.
_________________________
2014 Mazda 3 Hatch 2.0L & 6spd - Idemitsu 0w20 Synthetic @ $0.75 a quart. (thanks Advance Auto Parts for the awesome deal)

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#4758571 - 05/16/18 09:13 AM Re: Extended OCI and warranty [Re: PWMDMD]
partspro Offline


Registered: 12/08/11
Posts: 180
Loc: MO, USA
The cost saving of doing an extended OCI is small compared to the possible issues. Follow the MM with a good synthetic and filter of choice. you do not want to get into a shouting contest with the dealership/manufacturer.

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#4758578 - 05/16/18 09:20 AM Re: Extended OCI and warranty [Re: JustN89]
Hootbro Offline


Registered: 08/25/03
Posts: 2448
Loc: DELAWARE
Originally Posted By: JustN89

This just isn't the case. The burden of proof is on the company providing the warranty, not on the consumer. They would have to use their vast legal resources to prove that the extended OCIs caused the failure, which isn't as easily done as they would like to make you believe.



For wins on the internet, you are right. In the real world, you may have to litigate on your own dime to prove you are right against companies that have deeper pockets to financially cripple you first.

When discussion like this come up, people have to ask themselves if they are willing to absorb the cost of taking that risk? Most smart people will go with following the OEM recommended OCI while in warranty and expecting warranty coverage.

Also, even AMSOIL will tell you to follow the the OEM recommended OCI while in warranty.


Edited by Hootbro (05/16/18 09:22 AM)
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2018 RAM 2500 Cummins 6.7L (Factory Fill 5W-40)
2017 Jeep Renegade 2.4L (Idemitsu 0W-20)


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#4758579 - 05/16/18 09:20 AM Re: Extended OCI and warranty [Re: PWMDMD]
nap Offline


Registered: 04/27/18
Posts: 555
Loc: Canada
If this is about a GDI engine then the UOA at maintenance minder alert will show sufficient fuel dilution as to discourage the OP from any extended anything. So the whole discussion is pretty much hypothetical.

As for warranty purposes, my experience with Honda and Toyota is that their dealers have reasonable pricing for maintenance items. Changing oil at recommended interval at the dealer with their brand name Honda or Toyota oil is impeccable from a warranty pov.

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#4758581 - 05/16/18 09:21 AM Re: Extended OCI and warranty [Re: Artem]
JustN89 Offline


Registered: 06/27/17
Posts: 512
Loc: DFW
Originally Posted By: Artem
Based on some of the responses thus far, you'd think that doing extended OCIs is EXTREMELY DANGERIOUS and you have to assume all risk and expenses should something catastrophic happen to the engine during a 10-15k mile run on a synthetic oil GARANTEED by the manufacturer to be good for 20k miles... hmmmmm. Something doesn't add up here.

The way I see if, we have MORE THEN ENOUGH data on this site to suggest that, the OP will be TOTALLY SAFE to run an oil of his choosing for 2x the mantienance schedule without even a hint of any LUBRICATION RELATED failure if the UOA backed it up, showing that the oil is in good shape during oil change. What's the problem??

With today's 36-60k mile warranties, he'll be out of warranty and on his own in what, 3-4 oil changes? We all know that engine can last past the warranty period without even changing the factory fill, so I don't see what the fuss is about. If the lab report shows the oil is fine after putting on 2, 3, 5, or 10,000 MORE MILES then what the maintenance reminder suggest, then the OP should have NOTHING to worry about and he'll be past the warranty period with flying colors and a clean engine in no time at all.

Just my $0.02

I say you go for it, OP.

I don't think anyone is saying that it's dangerous to extend OCIs, rather they're saying that it's not worth the risk of losing warranty. In all reality, an extended OCI with a good synthetic won't cause harm, but no engine is perfect. If something breaks, it was probably going to break regardless of whether or not the OCI was extended with synthetic oil. However, it's a pretty safe bet that if your receipts show that you extended beyond the Manufacturer's OCI recommendations, they will more than likely fight you over warranty coverage. It may still be worth it to some, but if you strictly look at this from a value point-of-view, it's not worth the risk. Especially considering that the Honda OLM will already take you out up to 10k miles.

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#4758586 - 05/16/18 09:29 AM Re: Extended OCI and warranty [Re: PWMDMD]
PWMDMD Offline


Registered: 04/22/18
Posts: 67
Loc: MA
Thanks for all the responses - that's what I thought - I will follow the MM.

Now as a purely theoretical question and I'm not saying I would'nt be truthful but as a hypothetical you're running Amsoil SS with an extended OC filter and you're sure the oil level is good and you get a UOA that says the oil is doing well and BAM out of no where something catastrophic happens unrelated to the extended OCI causing loss of oil and you fry the engine or something lubricated by oil breaks, etc.. How would a dealership prove the oil wasn't changed at the recommended MM interval? Under the above circumstances that seems like a very difficult thing to prove.


Edited by PWMDMD (05/16/18 09:31 AM)
_________________________
Current: 2018 Honda Pilot Touring (Amsoil SS 0W-20 and Fram ULTRA XG7317) and 2014 Mazda5 (Valvoline Full Synthetic High Mileage with MaxLife 0W-20 and Fram ULTRA XG3614)

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#4758595 - 05/16/18 09:38 AM Re: Extended OCI and warranty [Re: PWMDMD]
turnbowm Offline


Registered: 05/14/15
Posts: 235
Loc: So. Calif.
Originally Posted By: PWMDMD
Thanks for all the responses - that's what I thought - I will follow the MM.

Now as a purely theoretical question and I'm not saying I would'nt be truthful but as a hypothetical you're running Amsoil SS with an extended OC filter and you're sure the oil level is good and you get a UOA that says the oil is doing well and BAM out of no where something catastrophic happens unrelated to the extended OCI causing loss of oil and you fry the engine or something lubricated by oil breaks, etc.. How would a dealership prove the oil wasn't changed at the recommended MM interval? Under the above circumstances that seems like a very difficult thing to prove.


You are the one that has to prove that all maintenance requirements were satisfied. The dealer has to prove nothing.
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2015 Kia Optima EX 2.4L GDI
2015 Chevy Volt

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